[climbingbubba]

hello, sorry for the very vague title. im having a hard time with deciding between a couple frames for my next bike and thought maybe you guys could help.

first, it will be used for DJs only. i said slopestyle too because the DJ's here range from 10 to 30 foot gaps. im getting up in to the 18-20 foot range and so they are slightly bigger than some DJ's. with that being said they don't have much of a lip to them. There are some BMX style jumps popping up lately though and they seem like they would be more fun with a smaller bike.

now, here are what i have narrowed it down to

larger jump bikes
Banshee Wildcard in the 5" setting with a Talas or float 36 at 5 inches
Corsair Konig with the same fork mentioned above
Transition Bottlerocket with a shorter shock to give it 5" and a 5 inch fork as well

smaller jump bikes
Banshee Rampant with an argyle 409 or pike 454 dual air lowered
Transition double with same fork
Blk mrkt killswitch with same fork.

All will be single speed and have a fairly light build. trying to keep it between 28-30 pounds.

So my question to you guys is how much does Geo actually affect the bike? i want something that will be give me some confidence on the big stuff but that i can learn the really lippy BMX style stuff.
a big concern is Chainstay length. these vary from 16.8 (BR, WC) to 16.5 (Rampant, Konig) to 16.3 (Double) to 16 (killswitch). will .8 inches be noticable on the lippy jumps? (main concern)
Also would there be much of a loss of pop going from 4" to 5" of travel? either one will be air and pumped up so i get 0 sag.

I had the older double and loved how much it boosted of jumps. hitting a step up that i can barely clear on my nomad or DH bike i could jump 4-5 feet higher than the landing on the double. but when it came to hitting new big stuff it didn't give me much confidence. it was the older one but i don't think 10mm will help. It was the smaller one though so it felt too short on me.

so, any help would be appreciated. anyone riding these or have a comment on the geo of these and how they would handle the jumps would help out alot. they would have to be the longer size so that would increase the WB too

 

[TheTruth]

black market fully. or dobermann le pinky

 

[cmc]

. . . .There are some BMX style jumps popping up lately though . . .

jumps don't "pop up." they are built by somebody!

$3000 bikes don't give confidence. riding a lot does.

i suggest a hardtail or a bmx (24" or 20") for the bmx style jumps...

 

[climbingbubba]

jumps don't "pop up." they are built by somebody!

$3000 bikes don't give confidence. riding a lot does.

i suggest a hardtail or a bmx (24" or 20") for the bmx style jumps...

ha ha, these jumps did. rode up there one day and 5 days later went back and an entire line of 10 jumps were "magically" there.
i do my far share of digging around here. I understand alot of work goes into jumps.

I have had 3 hardtails and never can seem to transition between them and my DH bike very easily. plus they seem to jump different since on fullies you preload the front and the rear and not just the front.

whatever bike i build will definately not be 3000 bucks either. if i spend more than 1500 ill be mad.

Maybe i should just get another double and call it good. they are fairly cheap and ride really well for the jumps around here.

 

[demo 9]

killswitch

 

[Tetreault]

i don't recomend getting frames or parts during their first run of production, just seems like there are always things that need to be addressed.

I'd highly suggest going with the corsair, it is an amazing ride

 

[climbingbubba]

i don't recomend getting frames or parts during their first run of production, just seems like there are always things that need to be addressed.

I'd highly suggest going with the corsair, it is an amazing ride

its funny how your first sentence says don't buy anything that is their first product run but then you said get a corsair that is still in its first run. they have only been out 6 months tops.

leaning towards the wildcard. found a great deal on a frame and a float 36

 

[juanbeegas]

leaning towards the wildcard. found a great deal on a frame and a float 36

Do it! You'll love it.

* you are the same dude i've been talking to on MTBR right?

 

[Tetreault]

its funny how your first sentence says don't buy anything that is their first product run but then you said get a corsair that is still in its first run. they have only been out 6 months tops.

a whole season of people riding a frame is a lot more than no one riding one at all. corsairs have been floating around for about a year now.

your the one that asked for what we thought, seems like your a huge Blackmarket fan boy or something after that last post.

dont get a corsair, because they are awesome

 

[climbingbubba]

a whole season of people riding a frame is a lot more than no one riding one at all. corsairs have been floating around for about a year now.

your the one that asked for what we thought, seems like your a huge Blackmarket fan boy or something after that last post.

dont get a corsair, because they are awesome

You make me laugh. don't take the internet so serious.

Im actually leaning towards being a banshee fanboy. I was just pointing out that corsairs are a very very young company with lots of problems they are still fixing. no doubt they are good bikes. 3 of my riding buddies have been testing them since early 08 so i have had some time on the maelstrom, konig, and ducat long before they came out. Plus they didn't officially come out a year ago. The konig and ducat came out around april/may and the maelstrom and crown came out in june/july. Also if you are going to bash Blk Mrkt than you need to do more research. the same guy who designed the corsair bikes (pablo) also designed the Killswitch. hence the same dropout system and the opportunity to run a concentric headset to change the HA.

don't take everything so serious. I did ask people for their opinions on which bike to get and was hoping for better answers than "get ___________ because its cool." I was hoping for something like "i have tried these 2 and the shorter chainstays on this one helped to get more pop or spin easier", or "get the other one cause its lighter and is really stiff" Like i said in my really long original post. its more of a geo question than anything.

 

[climbingbubba]

Do it! You'll love it.

* you are the same dude i've been talking to on MTBR right?

yeah im the same guy. Thanks for all of the help. Last night i was even kicking around the idea of just getting a hardtail even. i have found a good deal on the wildcard and on the konig so im torn between the two. I have ridden the konig for a good long day at the DJ's and know i will like it. The wildcard seems sweet because i could turn it into a trailbike at some point if i wanted and its lighter. im just worried about the longer chainstays on the wildcard. I have seen alot of banshee riders riding BMX style DJ's on their wildcards though and it didn't seem to slow them down at all.

also back to considering the double since they are pretty cheap. i figure i could buy a cheap one now while stuff is going cheap on ebay and then in the spring when the killswitch comes out i could sell the frame and just transfer everything over. Im guessing the killswitch would feel alot like the konig with less travel since Pablo helped design both.

 

[Tetreault]

You make me laugh. don't take the internet so serious.

Im actually leaning towards being a banshee fanboy. I was just pointing out that corsairs are a very very young company with lots of problems they are still fixing. no doubt they are good bikes. 3 of my riding buddies have been testing them since early 08 so i have had some time on the maelstrom, konig, and ducat long before they came out. Plus they didn't officially come out a year ago. The konig and ducat came out around april/may and the maelstrom and crown came out in june/july. Also if you are going to bash Blk Mrkt than you need to do more research. the same guy who designed the corsair bikes (pablo) also designed the Killswitch. hence the same dropout system and the opportunity to run a concentric headset to change the HA.

don't take everything so serious. I did ask people for their opinions on which bike to get and was hoping for better answers than "get ___________ because its cool." I was hoping for something like "i have tried these 2 and the shorter chainstays on this one helped to get more pop or spin easier", or "get the other one cause its lighter and is really stiff" Like i said in my really long original post. its more of a geo question than anything.

ill give you my experience with the bikes you've listed as i've actually spent some time on all of them except the blackmarket. (ill put my comments in red)

larger jump bikes
Banshee Wildcard
(i found the ride of this frame to be somewhat comparable to a sx trail in feel, the geometry was nice, pedaling wasn't so good however. 5" makes for a good all-round bike if you also want to ride stuff other than dirtjumps, the bike doesn't excell at jumping from what i experienced. It works well for bigger jumps, but isnt nearly as good if you have a technical line to ride)
Corsair Konig
(spent 5 days riding one, i really liked it because i found that it falls somewhere in between something like a wildcard and double expecially with the smaller frame size. Still beefy enough to get into the hairy stuff yet more agile then the wildcard, i found the suspension to have a better feel (both the wildcard and corsair had a rocco) the suspension of the corsair was easier to read/judge and i found it to just overall ride better)
Transition Bottlerocket
(almost bought one a few years ago, glad i didnt. its heavy and pedals terribly, in no way even comparable to the banshee or corsair)

smaller jump bikes
Banshee Rampant
(smaller jump bikes feel very much like hardtails when riding them, which im a huge fan of, just enough suspension to take the edge off, the rampant is an awesome bike, what i like about it is its super easy to jump, very maneuverable, i was lucky enough to ride it back to back with the wildcard and i can say i preferred this bike. however if you are planning on hitting single big jumps with time to correct in between them insted of tightly packed technical lines, the larger travel bikes may be a better option.)
Transition double
(good geometry very agile, a single pivot is actually really nice when the travel is this low, very easy to judge good overall feel, its a toss up on the ride with the banshee.)
Blk mrkt killswitch
(no experience)

 

[climbingbubba]

there we go, that was the most helpful advise yet.

yeah i am really torn between getting a 5" travel bike and sacrificing a little on the tighter jumps or getting a 4 inch travel bike and sacrificing a little on the bigger jumps. I really enjoyed the double i owned in the past but i had the regular and it felt a little too small to hit big stuff. either one i would get the long version. the konig i rode for a day was also a regular and it was flickable but it felt twitchy for me. It also popped like crazy! i was overshooting every jump in the main line. i ran it a little different though. i lowered the fork to 120 and pumped it up a ton.

i hate making decisions. i wish i could try them back to back. i probably should get the corsair since i have tested it and know it jumps really good.
although if i could find the newer double with the 4" of travel then i might have to get that.

 

[Tetreault]

over shooting is alot better then coming up short all the time, you can pump less or go slower into the pack to compensate for over shooting, but if your pumping like a mad man and still coming up short your S.O.L

I would personally choose the corsair first, followed by the rampant

also, keep in mind that the twitchy feeling will most likely come from all these frames as your used to a big DH bike, its just a matter of time before they become comfortable. A bike that feels twitchy will be 100% better then a dead and slow feeling bike once you get your confidence and comfort level up with the bike

 

[climbingbubba]

i have owned a bottlerocket, then an intense slopestyle, and i currently ride a nomad as well. it just has nice stuff on it and don't want to trash it jumping. the nomad frame cost more than building this jumper will by quite alot. im fairly use to shorter travel then my full dh bike. i just don't like hardtails

i wasn't complaining about overshooting things. it was pretty fun until i racked my nuts on the tire after landing to flat on a step down. probably dropped atleast 10 feet and flew 15-20 long. good times.

i think i have decided on the corsair. that is if i can get one used.

thanks for the help

 

[Luckynumber13]

how tall are you? what size frame did you ride when you had your Slopestyle?

 

[greengreer]

i think you should take a look at the sinister gruitr. it's got short chainstays, a fairly low bb, and 4.5 and 5.5 in of travel with a 2.0in stroke shock- change it to a 2.25 stroke and you get 5.5 or 6.5in
i've got one built with the shorter shock and a pike and its a blast, its very agile and light feeling and with the monarch i can just flip on the gate and it pops off lips almost like a hardtail.

 

[climbingbubba]

Im going to try and not add anymore to my list. i have a headache trying to decide between the three i have narrowed it down too.

I am 6 feet tall and rode a large but it was my do it all bike. if i was buying on for strict jumping i would get a medium.

 

[igz-]

Banshee Wildcard
(i found the ride of this frame to be somewhat comparable to a sx trail in feel, the geometry was nice, pedaling wasn't so good however. 5" makes for a good all-round bike if you also want to ride stuff other than dirtjumps, the bike doesn't excell at jumping from what i experienced. It works well for bigger jumps, but isnt nearly as good if you have a technical line to ride)

You should see what my buddy Mr. French rides on his Wildcard before saying it doesn't excell at jumping ;]

Techy **** as well.

damn solid geo for jumping, just pump up da sh0x

 

[Tetreault]

i never said it couldnt be done, i just happened to be able to ride both banshee's back to back, and found the rampant to be more agile and better on the tight technical stuff and it should be.

 

[climbingbubba]

man, i have an awesome transition double lined up now for a killer price. now i really don't know what to do.

i think if i could have any bike i wanted for the same price it would go as follows
banshee rampant
corsair konig
transition double
banshee wildcard

im sure id be happy with any of them. just trying to go cheap now.

 

[climbingbubba]

well it looks like im getting the transition double. ill ride it for the month left in the riding season and if i love it ill keep it and if not ill sell the frame and get a rampant or killswitch in the spring. it will be easy to swap everything over.

 

[manhattanprjkt83]

get a double...best price and solid.

 

[quickneonrt]

I ride a Double built with gears, lg1, Fox F120 15mm, atomlab pimplites, macneil pivitol post and primo seat, raceface atlas fr cranks 09s, twenty6 pedals, rp23 rear shock, thompson 4x 50mm stem, blkmkrt 1.5 risers, pig dh hs, juicy 7s , xo rear der,x7 shifter, 8spd chain and cassette and it still weighs around 32lbs.

I also have a Le Pink if you want a ss fully its the way to go, full cromo, fox float 36 rc2 lowered to 80mm, Diety cranks,seatclamp,clamp on grips,stem and bars. Fly Ruben pedals and barends, float r rear, azonic outlaws, mcneil pivitol and primo seat, 26x12 gearing, king hs, xt hydros f&R for now. 31.15 lbs