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Fun with a Turner DHR and a hacksaw, or how I lowered my DHR

1soulrider

Monkey
Apr 16, 2002
436
10
nor cal
I recently drilled the swingarm on my DHR to lower the BB and slacken the headtube angle. I have read a lot of discussion about this procedure online, and noticed a number of conflicting opinions about what was necessary to make this mod properly. I decided to record the procedure and share my findings with the online dh community. I talked to Turner about the process before starting and received reassurances that they approve of the mod. Knowing how well Turner takes care of their customers, I gathered up my confidence and got out the drill and hacksaw.
My 06 Turner DHR w/ an 06 Marzocchi 888RC2X had a BB height of just over 14.5”, this was w/ 2.5” tires and the fork as low in the crowns as possible. I wanted to lower the BB to 14”. I talked to Greg & David at Turner and the Maxxis team mechanic about the proper offset for the second hole in the swingarm. For the BB height I wanted, an 8mm offset was required. Kircaldie runs his bike lower (mid 13”) and uses a 10mm offset.
The mod requires two bits of work on the swingarm. First, the swinglink mount hole needs to be redrilled back (8mm in my case). Second, the material in front of the original mount holes needs to be shaved down for proper clearance of the linkage.
I started by measuring 8mm back from the original mount hole on the swingarm. I marked the spot to be drilled with a sharpie, and dimpled the center w/ a punch to keep the drill bit from wandering. I drilled the first side of the swingarm, and then used the little axle that the needle bearings ride on in the swinglink as a guide for drilling the second hole. This assured that the mount holes are aligned properly, and was a great tip from the guys at Turner. I found that it was necessary to shave some of the powdercoat to fit the axle further back from the original mounting holes.
The second phase required a hacksaw. I marked out the material to be cut from the front of the swingarm and went to it. My first cut was not quite the right angle, and did not give the needed clearance. I made a second cut at the proper angle and checked for clearance at full compression (remove shock spring etc). I then took a file and some steel wool to the cut part of the swingarm and cleaned it up. I ended up with a BB height of just under 14”.
I am very pleased with the way the bike handles with the drilled swingarm. It took me very little time to adjust to the way the bike behaves, aside from needing to be a bit more careful about where I place my pedals. The DHR immediately felt more comfortable in steep technical terrain. Right after I made the mod, we went to a local race and I got a great chance to evaluate the changes in performance. This was a 3000’ descent down old moto trails that were steep and full of deep ruts and loose rock. I was very impressed with how stable and comfortable the bike felt. I could let the bike run more than before, and I was surprised to find that the lower pedal clearance was less of an issue than I had anticipated. When I first started riding DHRs, I noticed that on steep tech trails I had to make an effort to shift my weight further back on the bike than I had in the past. This mod eliminated that feeling, and added a degree of extra confidence in those situations. I like the lower COG for cornering as well; you really feel like you are inside the bike instead of being above it.
After spending four months riding the modified DHR, I would recommend this procedure to anyone who rides in steep terrain. I have not yet found a situation where I miss the stock setting, although the mod allows for switching between the two mounts.
I would be happy to answer any questions about the procedure….
 

Lex

Monkey
Dec 6, 2001
594
0
Massachusetts
I have a question for the engineer types. Obviously Turner has OKed this mod but I'm curious if there is any worry about having two holes with so little material between them? (It only looks like a few millimeters). Is there a rule of thumb about how much material you would want to maintain between two holes with metal that is say, 0.125 inches thick?
 

1soulrider

Monkey
Apr 16, 2002
436
10
nor cal
I spoke with Turner about the chance of cracks developing between the mount holes, and they said they have not seen this happen. This includes Kircaldie's bikes.
 

al-irl

Turbo Monkey
Dec 9, 2004
1,086
0
A, A
You see a lot of guys do this, then why doesn't Turner drill these holes in the manufacturing process on every dhr?
well from what has discussed in this forum the new dhr will have similar geo to a modded one with a few other revisions.
 

1soulrider

Monkey
Apr 16, 2002
436
10
nor cal
There are lots of dh riders who are more than happy with a 14.5" BB. For those of us who want it lower, David leaves room for the mod.
I would agree that going back to the original mount hole could increase the chance of a crack as you would be compressing against a smaller amount of material. I would say be pretty sure that you want a lower bike before drilling.
I won't be going back to the stock mount, I much prefer the feel of the bike lower and slacker.
 

J_B

Monkey
Sep 20, 2004
849
0
In My '09 WRX STI
Nice work on the DHR, super clean. Hey, how's Ali doing with his leg? I heard he broke himself off on Culvert??

I rode with him a few times up at Northstar in '05 when I was hanging with Todd and the Northern Lights crew and saw him a few times in Auburn.
 

1000-Oaks

Monkey
May 8, 2003
778
0
Simi Valley, CA
It would take quite a bit of force to shear the aluminum between the holes (assuming of course you went back to the factory hole), considering how much support that area gets from above and below. I wouldn't sweat it.

Zero possibility of it cracking while riding the new position, 99% of the force is directed opposite the original hole.
 

davep

Turbo Monkey
Jan 7, 2005
3,276
0
seattle
Thanks for the pics and a good thread with some real info..not e-hearsay. Thought I would throw in my thoughts and experiences...hope that is OK...

Here are some pics of mine that I did. Close-ups of the spot where I drilled. The hole ended up being about 9mm from the orig hole. I wanted to keep the hole the same distance form the main pivot, to minimize any changes to linkage progressivness. To keep the two holes aligned, I Just drilled one side, then put the linkage in the swingarm, carefully aligned everything, and drilled through with the entire linkage in the swingarm. I used a slightly undersized bit and fine tuned with a small round file.



Here you can see the finished job. After some rough cutting, I filed a bit to smooth and make the two sides the same shape. Then some fine grip paper followed by some gloss black auto touch up paint (colors are off a little when up close, but looks factory from 1 ft away)



My fork is 575 A - C. Flush headset, with a mich 2.5 front and rear on 721s, bb is at ~ 13.75". Headangle is about 64*, but the tool I have is only good to about 1/2 degree +-

If you take some measurements, there is not a lot of variety on where the hole needs to go. I could only go ~ 1mm further back because of the size of the swingarm cut out. Much further foreward, and I did not feel like there was enough material between holes.

Last issue, some frames might have some interference at the main pivot, where the swingarm will hit the frame at the pivot shell. My frame just touched at COMPLETE bottom (shock removed and mount to mount measured at exactly 6.00"). Once the poude rcoat was chipped in this area, no contact occurred. For me it was enough to take some 400 grit paper and just lightly round some sharp edges, and then repaint (much thinner than PC).
BE WARNED..this if your frame has contact here, it could be disastrious due to the leverage and forces involved...please check for contact and address if needed!!!!

sorry ride impressions are limmited to parking lot due to back surgery (4 months off the bike) :plthumbsdown:
 

kidwoo

Artisanal Tweet Curator
Dave: Yours an 04? I've got an 03 swingarm on an 04 front, but doing this mod and throwing a 7" fork on there has me interested.
I like the head angle I've got now but just lowering the bb is something I'd like to do.

Thanks for the write up.

I've got an angle finder I can put on 1soulrider's bike this weekend the get the HA since I'm sure I'm not the only one who wants to know.
 

Cave Dweller

Monkey
May 6, 2003
993
0
I changed my avy to 9.125x2.75, dropped it to around 13.9-14 bb, around 7.8inchs rear travel and around 64.5 -65.5 degree head angle with 8 inch boxxers, which is fairly close to sunday specs. Sub 14 bb's and over 8inchs of travel is not a good idea due to pedal clipping, but that is just me.

Still getting used to it, good for fast drifting turns, bit sluggish on the slower stuff. I have found the bike has become more plow like and not as nimble, i think i need a wider bar and longer stem to get some control back.

If i did the drill mod i would have got alot inteferance (would have needed a dremel not sandpaper to fix things) like dave said, thats i why i didn't do it to mine.
 

kidwoo

Artisanal Tweet Curator
Still getting used to it, good for fast drifting turns, bit sluggish on the slower stuff. I have found the bike has become more plow like and not as nimble, i think i need a wider bar and longer stem to get some control back.
That's why I want the keep my headangle the same. A buddy of mine did this to his dhr years ago and on really hard, shut it down kind of corners, it was too much work to get over the front end and the front wheel flopped more than changed direction. I think you could go less than 8mm back and still get enough hole clearance.........and then just throw a shorter fork on to get in the 14- range.
 

Cave Dweller

Monkey
May 6, 2003
993
0
That's why I want the keep my headangle the same. A buddy of mine did this to his dhr years ago and on really hard, shut it down kind of corners, it was too much work to get over the front end and the front wheel flopped more than changed direction. I think you could go less than 8mm back and still get enough hole clearance.........and then just throw a shorter fork on to get in the 14- range.
Yep, i was actually planning on lowering the boxxer WC 1/2 of an inch by throwing in some spacers in the -ve side to try and correct things a little. I wanted it a bit more slack but i think i went a bit too far. Most of the tracks around here are not flat out fast drifting. I think im also just not used to a bike with a slack head angle, you need to ride over the front a bit more.
 

davep

Turbo Monkey
Jan 7, 2005
3,276
0
seattle
Dave: Yours an 04? QUOTE]

It is an 05.

I do agree with you guys, even just the parking lot test says more wheel flop and the need to get OVER the front. For me, this bike sees 90% + of its riding at whistler, so I was willing to sacraifice some for the fast and steep.
I also have an extra swing arm that I got from Turner for a song. For me this was the real clincher to do the mod..if I do not like it ,or something breaks, or if I just F'd it up..I have a spare swingarm I can always throw on there.

speaking of slack...someone brought this up the other day...most pics I see of Mr Hill, his boxxer is set to the longest possible A-C length (with a flat crown). Not sure if he is trying to raise the bb, or slack out the head angle even more...what ever his reasoning, it must be more imprtant that low bars for him... just some food for thought..
 

1soulrider

Monkey
Apr 16, 2002
436
10
nor cal
Dave: Yours an 04? I've got an 03 swingarm on an 04 front, but doing this mod and throwing a 7" fork on there has me interested.
I like the head angle I've got now but just lowering the bb is something I'd like to do.

Thanks for the write up.

I've got an angle finder I can put on 1soulrider's bike this weekend the get the HA since I'm sure I'm not the only one who wants to know.

Well then we will know for sure. As close as I can tell it is about 64
 

matt12

Monkey
Aug 17, 2004
512
0
Napa, CA
So I just bought an older (used) DHR frame, and I plan on drilling it. I emailed Turner to ask them a few questions about spring rates and whatnot. I also asked about the drill mod and they said they had never done it at the factory and it was never endorsed, just done by a few pro teams and amateurs? That goes against a lot of what I've been hearing.

I'm going to do it anyway, just came as a bit of a surprise. Thoughts?
 

1soulrider

Monkey
Apr 16, 2002
436
10
nor cal
Turner never has done the mod themselves.
This was done by the Turner Honda Team, ODI/Southridge, and Maxxis teams as well as many others.
If you do it an screw it up they won't give you a new swingarm.
Drilling it won't void the warranty, if your new mount holes crack that is another story.
Basically, if it is done right it will not shorten the life of the swingarm or frame.
Because of the nature of random people taking drills to their frames, it is hard for Turner to tell everyone to go ahead and we will fix it for you if you screw up.
If you have some common sense and follow the procedure I outlined, you will have nothing to worry about.
I'd be happy to answer specific questions you may have to help the process go smoother.
 

Bacardi

Monkey
Aug 16, 2002
394
0
Santa Barbara, CA
How do you guarantee the first hole to be straight with a cordless drill?

Davep's slightly undersized bit seems to be the ticket, but wouldn't it be easier to have a Drill press line up the hole, with the swingarm clamped down, then drilling thru the linkage for the 2nd? ...

I am interested in this mod but think it may be worth it to take it to a Machine shop for the drilling (being not so confident in my mechanical abilities ...) - Your thoughts?
 

DHRracer

Monkey
Sep 29, 2004
371
0
How do you guarantee the first hole to be straight with a cordless drill?

Davep's slightly undersized bit seems to be the ticket, but wouldn't it be easier to have a Drill press line up the hole, with the swingarm clamped down, then drilling thru the linkage for the 2nd? ...

I am interested in this mod but think it may be worth it to take it to a Machine shop for the drilling (being not so confident in my mechanical abilities ...) - Your thoughts?
Since I have access to a mill or two that is what I would use.Use the main pivot as my guide for being square and then you can move the table and be as accurate as possible.You should check around in your area for a fellow Mt. Biker who is a machinist,other wise a shop will most likely charge a minumum of at least $100.00+.Then after drilling use an end mill to remove whatever other material necessarry.
 

davep

Turbo Monkey
Jan 7, 2005
3,276
0
seattle
How do you guarantee the first hole to be straight with a cordless drill?

Davep's slightly undersized bit seems to be the ticket, but wouldn't it be easier to have a Drill press line up the hole, with the swingarm clamped down, then drilling thru the linkage for the 2nd? ...

I am interested in this mod but think it may be worth it to take it to a Machine shop for the drilling (being not so confident in my mechanical abilities ...) - Your thoughts?
The first hole will always be 'straight'..it is only a single dimension..

I used the linkage itself to align the second hole. Drill the first hole and then place the drill bit (no drill motor)throught the linkage bearing ( I shimmed the ID of the bearing axle a bit to make it all snug). Then I cycled the suspension a few times for the drill bit to find its natural position, in alignment to the particualr frame. When this was done, I spun the drill bit by hand to mark for the second hole. Now center punch and drill the hole....aligned perfectly to the front triangle.


1soulrider is correct, this is not something that Turner would want everyone doing (they cannot control how well you do the mod), but in reality it is not that difficult if you have some basic metal work skills, and should have no impact on the durability of the rest of the frame. Greg @ Turner is the one who walked me through the mod. Soul or myself can give you more help if needed.

I did have a very slight amount of interference at the main pivot at bottom-out with the mod. I needed to smooth/round some edges down there as well (~ 1mm radius) and then touch up with black paint .
 

1soulrider

Monkey
Apr 16, 2002
436
10
nor cal
I did have a very slight amount of interference at the main pivot at bottom-out with the mod. I needed to smooth/round some edges down there as well (~ 1mm radius) and then touch up with black paint .
This is dependent on how far back you drill the hole, the further back you go the more likely it is you will need to open up the main piot shell.
 

davep

Turbo Monkey
Jan 7, 2005
3,276
0
seattle
This is dependent on how far back you drill the hole, the further back you go the more likely it is you will need to open up the main piot shell.
For sure.
In my case, it was truely just a slight rounding of an edge. The inner edge of the shell (where the opening is cut) was an acute and quite sharp. The thickness of the powder coat at that point was quit thick as well. I used about 5 light strokes with a chainsaw file and about 2 min with 600grit paper to put a very small radius on the edge, and all was good.
 

matt12

Monkey
Aug 17, 2004
512
0
Napa, CA
So after riding my DHR a few days at N* I think I want to lower and slacken the bike a bit.

I would like somewhere in the range of a 13.5ish (maybe a bit higher) bb height. This will be with 721's and Maxxis 2.5 tires + a Boxxer WC slammed in the crowns. Davep, you said you drilled about 9mm back? That sounds like about what I want to do as you said you came out wiht something like a 13.7? Just making sure...

Also just to be positive when you say 8,9,10mm back, you're measuring from center to center, right?

thanks for all the help guys.
 

Spahman

Monkey
Dec 13, 2006
502
0
Arlington
I hate to bump an old thread but I'm thinking about doing this to my 2005 DHR with 888RCX2.
I'm thinking about a 7mm offset.. does anyone know how much that would drop my BB and HA?
 

davep

Turbo Monkey
Jan 7, 2005
3,276
0
seattle
It is beyond easy to check.

Remove the linkage bolt to the swingarm (where you would drill)
put a shim (washers, piece of wood, folded cardboard, etc)in the pocket in the swingarm where the lingkage sits....such that the linkage end is in the same vertical orientation, yet 7mm rearward.
 

Jorgen

Monkey
Oct 3, 2003
255
0
Oslo, Norway
I hate to bump an old thread but I'm thinking about doing this to my 2005 DHR with 888RCX2.
I'm thinking about a 7mm offset.. does anyone know how much that would drop my BB and HA?
I have the same fork and same frame. I did a 8mm setback hole.
I have not a super-exact measurement, men BB sits at a tad below 14", and headangle sits at about 64.

This is with a zerostack headset. I have not measured with an "external" headset.