Future Of Geometry? Grim F@#$IN DONUT
- Thread starter ianjenn
- Start date
Yeah, that helps. If I was in charge at a big brand I would lean heavily towards making Aluminum test sleds for the factory riders to use with way more aggressive geometry and suspension that can trickle down over the years. Or do small batch runs say 30-50 of ultra-aggressive versions of current models?
Just design them around a full 1.5 " head tube and so you can run offset cups top and bottom of the headset. They should be able to get the angles within +/- 2 degrees. I assume that this is already what manufacturers interested in R&D actually do.
at least in regards to racing, there's a UCI rule that dictates a bike/component must be commercially available within a certain frame of when it is first raced.
At the risk of brutal derision, I have to say that Levy Is growing on me.
”The right amount of stupid” is pretty good.
”The right amount of stupid” is pretty good.
Other than the whole downcountry crap, they do put out some decent original content.
they can be hosers at times, but i love that they did the whole grim donut experiment, getting a little outside the box instead of just race & product reporting.
Yeah, he was never the most friendly when I would see him at say Sea Otter etc. I would be BSing with other photogs and he looked at us like quite I have a story due. But this was pretty hilarious. You know Commencal was like oh SHIT when he dropped 6 seconds off on a bike he just rode that day. I'll find him next year and give him a 750ml of WHISKEY....
Fuck it, I'll be that guy. I actually like downcountry as a descriptor- an XC bike that still lets you have fun going down. As opposed to an XC race bike, which is 100% high speed low drag lycra mandatory machine.
Ironically, I see the Grim Donut as going too far in the opposite direction. Designed solely to be ridden at 100% on EWS grade downhill, and a fucking unpleasant clown car the rest of the time. So not the bike for most riders, but I would bet money some marketing department is already drumming up a campaign for their new release with a 55 degree HA or some shit.
i don't like the term downcountry, but i can't come up with anything better.
FWIW i turned my 2013 scott spark into what is effectively a downcountry bike. for the trails i ride it on, it kicks ass.
I have said this before and I will say it again. There are two genres of mountain bikes. One made to be carried uphill by something else, the other you pedal uphill. Anything else and you are just trying to label something to fit a desired image.
which one of your "genres" do trials bikes fit into?
26" wheels. mountain bike drivetrain. MTB brakes. MTB tires. MTB cockpit.
Sure then. Go enjoy a day riding a trials bike around some trails.
You can make up a new genre, triails riding, cross trials, or take that bad mofo to Whistler and do some down trials.
The industry clearly needs to form an ISO committee to classify bike types. I'd hate to get caught riding a trail bike on an Enduro trail or an Enduro bike on a down country trail. Laws should be passed accordingly.
The same should be applied to gear. No riding down country while wearing a trail helmet or a DH jersey.
The same should be applied to gear. No riding down country while wearing a trail helmet or a DH jersey.
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Thing is, XC race bikes are so damn rare, I mean the REAL ones intended to be raced XC, not the ones that are the lower level or less aggressive models. MOST of these bikes were already coming with 120mm forks and beefier tires than the full on high end XC race bike and MOST people were not buying the high end XC race bike to "ride on trails". I think that idea was just perpetuated by the companies like Yeti that wanted to sell more bikes.
IMO, downcountry is a sham. If they were making a DIFFERENT frame than their XC race bike, with an in-line coil shock, different geometry, wider tires and rims and other substantial differences, that would let it rip, sure, but when it comes with an XC air rear shock and it's the same frame as their "XC race" bike, it's obvious they are just blowing smoke up our ass. And then what does Yeti do? They turn around and make the SB115...based on the same main-frame...cuz I guess 100mm of XC air shock travel wasn't enough...I think the theory of a downcountry bike isn't bad, but it's not far removed from just putting a slightly longer fork on the XC bike and building it slightly different...and that was already happening. Now it just seems like a reason to charge someone a lot more for a bike that they'll probably realize doesn't have enough travel a few years later and then buy another bike...
I don't really care what sort of category a bike is put in to, I look at the geo, the travel and the size of the pivots then go from there.
Oh and the stack height, coz fuck spacers.
Oh and the stack height, coz fuck spacers.
They had to to make up the term downcountry as cover for all the big manufacturers putting out trail bikes with out of date geometry.
I think it’s clear steep STA and slack HA is here to stay, just as BB heights have standardized.
I think it’s clear steep STA and slack HA is here to stay, just as BB heights have standardized.
FTFY
Marketing, Sham, what's the difference? TBH I haven't looked into the build kits of XC/DC bikes, or any bike for that matter since I always go frame-up, but I think the single biggest thing that makes an XC bike not a race bike is a more upright cockpit. Less efficient but easier to handle on the downs. That's probably where I'd start for the differentiation.
Which is usually covered by a longer travel front fork (how most of the companies are doing "downcunty") and simply what already existed. Most of the time, you wouldn't get the 100mm/100mm version of the XC bike, except at the highest pricepoint with the most "XC race" components...but long before this downcountry shit, you could still buy said bike with a 120mm front fork and in many cases, they didn't even offer the XC bike with a 100mm unless you special ordered it or something. So apart from putting a longer travel fork on the bike and making it more slack, how is it "douchecountry"? Is it just long-forking the XC bike, which companies have been offering stock for a long time? If it's geometry tweaks and so on, then the XC race bike frame should be different than the "downcart"?, which to my knowledge has not happened yet.
But I go to the suspension, that's the most telling IMO. With an XC shock on there like a DPS, McLeod, Monarch RCT, you have got to be shitting me if you are telling me this bike is for getting aggressive on the downs. I'm not saying it needs 115 or 120mm of travel, I'm saying quality of travel should be prioritized because that is what this bike is supposed to fucking be about.
It may be as simple as creating "downcountry" as a segment gives PB more to write about, or in other words more articles to make ad revenue on.
To JM’s point, weight is still a fairly significant factor for the ‘Downcountry’ shopper.
coil wouldn’t sell as easily, IMO.
even as the weight difference has become (more or less) negligible.
you still have to make bikes that will sell.
coil wouldn’t sell as easily, IMO.
even as the weight difference has become (more or less) negligible.
you still have to make bikes that will sell.
Which is why I used examples like DPS and Monarch, maybe a DPX or Super Delux is appropriate over a coil, a coil would also necessitate a revamped leverage curve most likely. An in-line coil would be absolutely brilliant IMO, but apart from that, at least a shock that will take some downhill use and not fade to nothing quickly, like an XC one will. That means at least something like a DPX, to take it seriously...
Fair point, a short DPX2, even.
It's the piece of shit in the middle that all that stuff attaches to that kinda matters
so.................'trail bike'
One point re: cool shocks: most of them are still too long to put on xc/downcountry bikes. The shortest they seem to go is about 210x50
MRP 200x51, but yeah, fairly limiting. It also doesn't help that on the XC race bikes they intentionally use shorter shocks to save weight...and then use the same frame for "moundcountry".
We are way off topic with down country.
The grim donut is clearly the new Downduro™ bike of the future.
The grim donut is clearly the new Downduro™ bike of the future.
I don’t think I could even get a cool replacement shock for the SB100.
But I’m selling that bitch to get something a little more smashy.
But I’m selling that bitch to get something a little more smashy.