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Future Of Geometry? Grim F@#$IN DONUT

kidwoo

Artisanal Tweet Curator
Not really, most lazy potato-chip eating enduro-riders have no idea how fast expert XCer riders push their XC rigs downhill. They rationalize their life as "I may not be first to the top, but I rip the downhills"...but really, they don't rip the downhills. They are equally slow there. The stereotype is that these XCers can't ride technical or downhill fast. That's generally because said gravity riders are pacing the slowest XC riders that are so far behind that they represent the absolute bottom of the XC riders, the people who just started mountain biking a few weeks ago or that never go faster than 10mph. So yeah, those XC rider suck at DH, but the ones that are near the top do not. It's a common to hate on them, but every second you lose on a downhill is one more to make up on a climb. Sure, climbs matter more, but putting seconds on people on the downhill is "free time" that other people have to make up exerting themselves. You won't win an XC race due to superior DH skills, but at the same time, you can't give up time here either.


But this is what xc racing does to your brain: People think this looks good in the air







Everything Kate Courtney does is okay though. Nothing bad applies to her. Ever. Because them's the rules.
 
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kidwoo

Artisanal Tweet Curator
Ever been to England?
Other than where you live closer to real hills, I can't for the life of me understand why the UK is such a powerhouse in dh racing. We would have given up long ago with that weather and track length :rofl:


100% culture? Here we're horrible environment destroyers who have to break the law (like potentially go to jail law) to ride real terrain.


Except Oakley hat guy

That's me

JM on far left
 
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Sandwich

Pig my fish!
Staff member
May 23, 2002
21,094
6,031
borcester rhymes
Downcountry- IMO this is just a name applied to the realization that you can get away with less bike when you have moar wheel. ie, 29" wheels feel more good with just 110mm of travel compared to 130 on a 650b bike. So you get more efficiency and more comfort at the same time. These bikes are just redesigned for people who like goin' fast and demand a stiff front end and aggressive geometry from a lighter and more efficient bike.

Grim Donut- crazy geometry makes fast guys go faster on fast trails, will suck for 99.8% of anybody else. MFGers- "do we build the thing to make our racers fast, then push it on freds, or force our racers to ride things that will actually sell?"
 

HAB

Chelsea from Seattle
Apr 28, 2007
11,582
2,009
Seattle
Everything Kate Courtney does is okay though. Nothing bad applies to her. Ever. Because them's the rules.
I once ran into her in a coffee shop in, like Anchor Bay or some other tiny town like that on the coast. She was in the middle of a road ride, and she and her friend were discussing how drunk they intended to get that night at a party. :rofl:
 

jonKranked

Detective Dookie
Nov 10, 2005
86,082
24,611
media blackout
I once ran into her in a coffee shop in, like Anchor Bay or some other tiny town like that on the coast. She was in the middle of a road ride, and she and her friend were discussing how drunk they intended to get that night at a party. :rofl:
I met her at snowshoe wc. She is tiny.
 

Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
54,502
20,300
Sleazattle
Other than where you live closer to real hills, I can't for the life of me understand why the UK is such a powerhouse in dh racing. We would have given up long ago with that weather and track length :rofl:


100% culture? Here we're horrible environment destroyers who have to break the law (like potentially go to jail law) to ride real terrain.





That's me

JM on far left

This is the ideal version of American recreation

tenor (2).gif
 

buckoW

Turbo Monkey
Mar 1, 2007
3,787
4,733
Champery, Switzerland
Paul Aston’s bike should probably be mentioned in this thread somewhere. He’s already ahead of Yoann’s higher bb height wishes with 367mm.

Is @HAB the only guy here on futuristic geo? Anyone else?
 

Gary

"S" is for "neo-luddite"
Aug 27, 2002
7,692
5,621
UK
Paul Aston’s bike should probably be mentioned in this thread somewhere. He’s already ahead of Yoann’s higher bb height wishes with 367mm.
:oThat's HIGH! But doesn't his Nicolai have like 50mm more rear travel aswell?
 

buckoW

Turbo Monkey
Mar 1, 2007
3,787
4,733
Champery, Switzerland
:oThat's HIGH! But doesn't his Nicolai have like 50mm more rear travel aswell?
I was wrong, it‘s higher. He has 210mm of travel

here’s his reasoning,
“Bottom bracket height: The BB is currently about 375mm. Blasphemy! I'm not a super fan of low bottom brackets, especially in Finale where there are plenty of things to catch a pedal on. My theory is that low bottom brackets were great to improve stability on tiny bikes with small wheels a few years ago, nowadays we mostly use bigger wheels so we instantly have higher axles and more BB drop, plus this bike is so inherently stable that a higher BB lets me ride through rocks and ruts with much more confidence.

I find it also switches direction easily with my style of riding: I pump the bike a lot and unweight it between corners, at full extension, I am standing above the axles and so it tips over easily. This also keeps the bike leant over in turns better: if you are standing far below the axles your weight pushing through the BB is trying to stand the bike up.”
 

jonKranked

Detective Dookie
Nov 10, 2005
86,082
24,611
media blackout
I was wrong, it‘s higher. He has 210mm of travel

here’s his reasoning,
“Bottom bracket height: The BB is currently about 375mm. Blasphemy! I'm not a super fan of low bottom brackets, especially in Finale where there are plenty of things to catch a pedal on. My theory is that low bottom brackets were great to improve stability on tiny bikes with small wheels a few years ago, nowadays we mostly use bigger wheels so we instantly have higher axles and more BB drop, plus this bike is so inherently stable that a higher BB lets me ride through rocks and ruts with much more confidence.

I find it also switches direction easily with my style of riding: I pump the bike a lot and unweight it between corners, at full extension, I am standing above the axles and so it tips over easily. This also keeps the bike leant over in turns better: if you are standing far below the axles your weight pushing through the BB is trying to stand the bike up.”
he's not wrong in regards to the increase in BB drop that came with larger wheel diameters.
 

Gary

"S" is for "neo-luddite"
Aug 27, 2002
7,692
5,621
UK
low bottom brackets were great to improve stability on tiny bikes with small wheels
Totally with him on this one.
and yeah. bigger wheels on longer wheelbases probably not so much.

Ps. is that you getting your skids n wheelies on in the new Scott Randsom Eeb video?
 

slyfink

Turbo Monkey
Sep 16, 2008
9,351
5,100
Ottawa, Canada
Not really, most lazy potato-chip eating enduro-riders have no idea how fast expert XCer riders push their XC rigs downhill. They rationalize their life as "I may not be first to the top, but I rip the downhills"...but really, they don't rip the downhills. They are equally slow there. The stereotype is that these XCers can't ride technical or downhill fast. That's generally because said gravity riders are pacing the slowest XC riders that are so far behind that they represent the absolute bottom of the XC riders, the people who just started mountain biking a few weeks ago or that never go faster than 10mph. So yeah, those XC rider suck at DH, but the ones that are near the top do not. It's a common to hate on them, but every second you lose on a downhill is one more to make up on a climb. Sure, climbs matter more, but putting seconds on people on the downhill is "free time" that other people have to make up exerting themselves. You won't win an XC race due to superior DH skills, but at the same time, you can't give up time here either.
approx 80% of the downhill Strava KOMs in my hood are owned by two guys. One's a full-blown xc rider (and gravel rider and road rider), the other is a former DH racer that was always a beast on the climbs and has turned his had to gravel and road riding in the last few years.

But this is what xc racing does to your brain: People think this looks good in the air

So it's all about how we look now?!?!

(I'm totally ok with that - I don't ride fast at all!)
 

canadmos

Cake Tease
May 29, 2011
20,593
19,619
Canaderp
I resemble that remark. Couple of years ago got my ass absolutely handed to me by one of the local XC pros in an enduro race.

My only defense is he obliterated everyone else in the field as well. The potato chips were good though.
Most KOMs round here are all taken by racers on XC bikes, even if the trail is gnarly and more suited for a bigger bike.

Few people also cleaned up a couple "DH" races at a local skihill this summer. Granted they race at the world cup level, but still....
 

dump

Turbo Monkey
Oct 12, 2001
8,235
4,496
approx 80% of the downhill Strava KOMs in my hood are owned by two guys. One's a full-blown xc rider (and gravel rider and road rider), the other is a former DH racer that was always a beast on the climbs and has turned his had to gravel and road riding in the last few years.


So it's all about how we look now?!?!

(I'm totally ok with that - I don't ride fast at all!)
Strava definitely has a road biker slant... so... no big surprise there ;)
 

kidwoo

Artisanal Tweet Curator
So kinda like listing US WC winners for the past 20 years
No shit Sherlock :rofl:

Spain is a lot closer to UCI world and real mountains with the real tracks used for real dh racing. We're all over here like "derp derp, winter park=enduro right? Right?"

It's 2020. If you think the US is any example of anything to hold up for any reason whatsoever, I'm genuinely concerned for your mental health. We made palmer into a hero :rofl:
 
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buckoW

Turbo Monkey
Mar 1, 2007
3,787
4,733
Champery, Switzerland
Totally with him on this one.
and yeah. bigger wheels on longer wheelbases probably not so much.

Ps. is that you getting your skids n wheelies on in the new Scott Randsom Eeb video?
Yes, that was me on the ebike with the fanny pack, just don’t tell Woo.

Back to neo-geo, I had 462mm stays on that thing. I’ve never ridden a bike that long before that.
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3C7F59D9-C79D-41EB-8F3F-72D61C75DFBA.jpeg


Side note: It was too dark to continue along the ridge so I got to freeride down the left of us in this pic. The gravel was perfect and you could ride anywhere, pop rollers and carve like the Kamloops gravel pit. I’ve never done that before. It was one of the coolest parts of the trip. Pila down to Aosta was where I finished off my back wheel. Aosta is such a amazing spot. I’d like to go back there before the snow.