[kidwoo]

Every pro gunner in here is the reason why most of the civilized world thinks "Mericans" are a bunch of mentally retarted cowboys.

That's because it's an entirely accurate description.

Having an NRA dildo so far up your ass it dictates the words coming out of your mouth passes as 'informed firearm owner'.

Of course all these arguments come from a lobbying group for gun MANUFACTURERS and not gun owners.....but you know....understanding nuance is not a strong point in freedum cuntry.

 

[dante]

The only thing that approaches this appalling tragedy is the pathetic and desperate attempt by pro-gun nuts trying to whitewash this event...

He used a military-style assault rifle that was specifically banned for the decade after the "Assault Weapons Ban" and clips that held up to 10 times the amount of ammunition that were allowed under it. And yet all of the pro-gun nuts refuse to accept any culpability in the fact that this tragedy was possible solely due to their insistence on weaker gun laws.

You want military-style assault weapons? You want clips that hold up to 100 rounds, allowing someone like Holmes to fire the entire 100 round drum in what, 30? 40 seconds? Well, guess what, you hold some responsibility for what happened, and the severity of it. Hope you sleep well tonight...

 

[Kanye West]

Almost every adult in Switzerland may carry a firearm, and has been educated and trained on how to use one RESPONSIBLY. You don't see mass shootings happening over there.

You really think lives aren't saved by the general population being able to defend itself? Just because it doesn't make a top headline? Every single day crimes and killings are averted and people are able to defend themselves against predatory criminals and it doesn't even make it on a police blotter.

Know what major metropolitan area in the U.S. has one of the largest violent crime rates? Los Angeles. Part of California. California IS a conceal-carry state, however most every county/District Attorney in the state (including LA, Ventura, San Bernardino, Riverside, and Orange) doesn't allow conceal-carry for anyone, no matter your reason. Basically nobody here is carrying a gun (legally), except LEO's. But there are plenty of people carrying a gun ILLEGALLY! People who have acquired them through illegitimate means. People who cannot buy them or own them legally, much less carry them. The people who go through the various steps to get a conceal-carry permit are BY DEFINITION law-abiding responsible citizens. If given the choice between a criminal being the only one having a gun in a group of people, and both a criminal and a law-abiding responsible citizen both having a gun, I'll take the latter.

In locales where gun ownership increases, crime rate decreases (all else being equal, and accounting for poverty, unemployment, arrest rates, etc). Stats don't lie.

Criminals will ALWAYS find a way to obtain firearms illegally. Just because someone made a law on a piece of paper that those people cannot own them doesn't mean they won't. Also just because someone made a law that it's illegal to shoot up a room full of people doesn't mean people wont - whether or not they obtained the weapon legally. To put the rest of the population at a position to simply be prey for these individuals is not much different than actually putting us in the crosshairs.

 

[DirtyMike]

Well...

Gunman walks into a dark room with 100 or so people who are mostly unarmed and expects to take out a bunch, potentially to have some return fire (as he was geared up for it). Self-preservation is at least SOME priority to this individual, since 1) he geared up with armor and 2) he didn't take his own life and 3) he didn't resist arrest and go down in a hail of gunfire.

Let's say EVERY person in that room had a loaded firearm. Do you REALLY think the same thing would have happened? I don't mean someone would have shot him first, or before he killed as many people as he did - I mean, would there have even been a shooting AT ALL? No matter how deranged our lunatic specimen is in this circumstance, I bet the hair off my balls that said lunatic would not run into a room full of people all armed and loaded who are all facing him in an theater setting and start firing.

When nobody in the room has a gun, nobody has any power.

When one person in the room has a gun, that person has ALL the power.

When a few people in the room have a fun, they each have some of the power.

When everybody in the room has a gun, again, nobody has any power.

Self preservation is built right into most people. This fact is exactly why I stand behind legal carry. Personally I am 100% behind if you can buy a firearm legally, you should already be able to carry... Maybe this add's that you have to take a firearms class before you can buy, but if you can buy it you should be able to carry it.

If the common thought of criminals and crazies was that over half the people they encounter is armed, the WILL rethink commiting a crime. Naysayers can say this is not true all they want... But lets just add this, you see a bunch of gang bangers walking down the street, do you tell them to get off your street? no you assume they are armed so you do not say a damned thing..... Those gang bangers take over the blocks ebcause they know they have the guns and weapons, and the rest of you do not.

If everyone had guns we'd be safe just like they were back in the Wild West - a real Tea Party "Paradise". Gun control has ruined the safety we used to enjoy:





Can't ignore that he had armor either. The suspect in Aurora is said to have respected law enforcement and warned them of the traps in his apartment so he wasn't looking for a shootout with them:

I know we dont see Eye to Eye on most things, but we see this perfectly level on this one.

Would the shooting have happened if everyone in the theater was armed? We will never know for sure. Would the odds of it happening be substantially lowered..... Absolutly.

Perhaps, but just ONE armed person with some experience would have forced the attacker to focus on him, allowing countless others to escape. Being the armed citizen in a situation like that will likely be suicidal but at least the attacker won't be shooting at the unarmed any longer.
I'm not an advocate for every Tom, Dick, and Harry to carry concealed, some people just don't have it in them to kill someone if necessary or are smart enough to take the time to train with it, but I refuse to be a lamb at slaughter to anyone who would do harm to me, my family, or other innocent parties.
This tragedy reaffirmed my practice of carrying everywhere I go in public...I couldn't live with myself if I had been in that audience unarmed and impotent to do anything about it.

But..lets have a knee-jerk reaction, remove bayonet lugs and flash suppressors from AR platform rifles so they don't look as scary, and what-if the situation to death without the slightest real-world firearms experience to go on. It looks like Senator Frank Lautenberg will be taking lessons from Al Sharpton on politicizing this tragedy here pretty soon.

Like you I do not go out without, I am licensed, I carry legally, I am trained to use it, and i am reconciled with the fact that should I pull my weapon I must be ready to take a life. Here is what i will back this up, this has not come up from me here as of yet, but There has been three tinstances were I did in fact draw my weapon, in all three of those situations not a single shot was fired and the situations stayed completly under control. All three were situations that could have become lethal really fast without intervention, So yes, i willstand behind the statement fully that one person that dedicates to actually knowing what to do can keep control in a situation like this.....

 

[syadasti]

In locales where gun ownership increases, crime rate decreases (all else being equal, and accounting for poverty, unemployment, arrest rates, etc). Stats don't lie.

Indeed, they don't. California was far more dangerous when there was limited government with no gun control with a significantly lower population density in the late 19th century:

the interval for all of southern and central California was between 60 and 70 per 100,000 adults per year—seven times the homicide rate in the United States today (and 28.7 standard deviations away)

L.A.'s Homicide Rate Lowest In Four Decades

Steady Decline in Major Crime Baffles Experts

 

[kidwoo]

Hack: the difference between the US and Switzerland is the culture surrounding the access to firearms. It's not even the same universe.

But the US can't even have the conversations that would move us towards the culture they have going on.....mostly because of retards repeating the code of all guns, all the time, everywhere put forth by one of the biggest lobbying groups in the country. All of it of course caged as 'being american' with an overemphasis on the second amendment while conveniently ignoring the very first word in the constitution.

Put simply, intelligent people can handle firearms. The US is not made up of intelligent people. It's made up of 'empowered individuals.' Switzerland takes care of its population. The US puts it at odds with itself.

 

[dante]

Self preservation is built right into most people. This fact is exactly why I stand behind legal carry. Personally I am 100% behind if you can buy a firearm legally, you should already be able to carry... Maybe this add's that you have to take a firearms class before you can buy, but if you can buy it you should be able to carry it.

I'm far more ok with concealed-carry than I am with the NRA's idea that military-style assault rifles with 100rd drum magazines are a Constitutional right... Or that we can't have any type of ballistics tracking, or stings to go after straw-buyers, or volume limits to deter straw buyers, or a national database to see who's buying hundreds of handguns every couple of days, or...

 

[pnj]

What happens when we ban the guns? Meth/Coke/Heroin are illegal yet available in every city, every day to those that want/need it.

Those that want to get an assault rifle/gun will always be able to. and it's only going to be the scumbags that do horrible crimes such as this.

how do we prevent scum from getting access to weapons?

 

[dante]

^^^^You're talented enough to cook up an AR-15 in your bathtub? That's impressive...

 

[kidwoo]

how do we prevent scum from getting access to weapons?

The first step would be to stop pretending that owning them makes you a good american.

Then we can have the real conversation that points out that feeling the need to own this shlt is a failure of civic structure.

 

[$tinkle]

It looks like Senator Frank Lautenberg will be taking lessons from Al Sharpton on politicizing this tragedy here pretty soon.

too bad he's not taking shooting lessons from state sen Bud Dwyer

i am reconciled with the fact that should I pull my weapon I must be ready to take a life.

put simply, there's no other reason to carry. of all the training people get, there does not seem to be any that attempts to drive home if you execute your "duties" to the letter, it's going to be messy.

I'm far more ok with concealed-carry than I am with the NRA's idea that military-style assault rifles with 100rd drum magazines are a Constitutional right... Or that we can't have any type of ballistics tracking, or stings to go after straw-buyers, or volume limits to deter straw buyers, or a national database to see who's buying hundreds of handguns every couple of days, or...

this.

 

[Kanye West]

I'm far more ok with concealed-carry than I am with the NRA's idea that military-style assault rifles with 100rd drum magazines are a Constitutional right... Or that we can't have any type of ballistics tracking, or stings to go after straw-buyers, or volume limits to deter straw buyers, or a national database to see who's buying hundreds of handguns every couple of days, or...

30 days per handgun is nation-wide, right?

Also, is a 100 round drum magazine even legal? I'll admit a big of ignorance on that topic. I know they aren't legal in CA, but relatively speaking, not much is.

The AR-15 subject is a touchy one. I've shot a few of them before, and they are a lot of fun, no doubt. But their existence in the civilian market probably does more harm than good. They're expensive as hell, and they're expensive to shoot. A novelty item at best, and leaning more towards a toy than a tool.

 

[syadasti]

What happens when we ban the guns? Meth/Coke/Heroin are illegal yet available in every city, every day to those that want/need it.

Sweet. We can fire manimal and everyone else at the borders, they aren't doing anything according NRA's delusional thinking on restrictions.

The laws of supply and demand still hold with ANY good - weapons, drugs, or otherwise. The current top drugs are ALL legal in some states - alcohol (largest by far and legal everywhere), marijuana, and OTC/prescription drugs - the illicit drug abuse doesn't come close:

In fact, prescription and over-the-counter (OTC) drugs are, after marijuana (and alcohol), the most commonly abused substances by Americans 14 and older.

One of the primary problems in the effort to curb the rise in over-the-counter drug abuse is the ease with which over-the-counter medications can be accessed. Contrary to prescription drug abuse, in which a user needs to acquire the drugs via fraudulent or illicit means, over-the-counter medications can be legally purchased in pharmacies, grocery stores, convenience stores, and other retail locations throughout most communities.

 

[norbar]

Almost every adult in Switzerland may carry a firearm, and has been educated and trained on how to use one RESPONSIBLY. You don't see mass shootings happening over there.

Switzerland has 2x less Guns than the US. A country where almost every able bodied male goes trough a military training and their guns are a part of them being part of the militia/army. That not only makes it harder to sell the gun but also speaks volumes about the US gun ownership. Most of the assault rifles in Switzerland are militia guns and if you are not on duty you have to have a special permit for any gun that is actually way harder to get than US permits.

Criminals will ALWAYS find a way to obtain firearms illegally. Just because someone made a law on a piece of paper that those people cannot own them doesn't mean they won't. Also just because someone made a law that it's illegal to shoot up a room full of people doesn't mean people wont - whether or not they obtained the weapon legally. To put the rest of the population at a position to simply be prey for these individuals is not much different than actually putting us in the crosshairs.

[/quote]

That is plain untrue. You really don't find a correlation between the number of guns and the ease of access? There more guns there is the more will get displaced, land in the hands of stupid or greedy people.





btw. No one claims we need to ban guns. There are legal guns in Poland and most places in yurp. You just need stricter control and regulation, higher gun taxes to effectively make the gun ownership more controled (and possibly lower in quantity). The same reason why we need drug legalization - if it's legal it can be controlled but you need resonable laws to do it.

 

[dante]

Monthly limit on handguns in VA: None. (I think it's still based on states)

There's still the lack of a database that would actually enable government officials to track that, though...

Beta C-Mag

In 1994, the United States Federal Assault Weapons Ban passed, prohibiting manufacture of magazines with capacity of more than 10 rounds for civilian use. Civilian purchase and ownership of previously manufactured magazines was legal, though as a result of a limited supply, the C-Mags became rare and expensive. The ban expired on September 13, 2004, and Beta Company has resumed production of the C-Mag for the civilian market.[2] Some states though, have enacted their own laws against "high capacity" magazines.

I'm guessing that's the one he used, but no clue as to the specifics. Just stating that federally you can own as many as you want. Imagine how this might have been different (still terrible) if he'd had to reload every 10 shots instead of having access to 100 rounds of "fire as fast as you can pull the trigger" bullets.

edit: Apparently his assault weapon jammed (due to the mag?) early in the encounter and forced him to switch to his backups...

 

[IH8Rice]

Also, is a 100 round drum magazine even legal? I'll admit a big of ignorance on that topic. I know they aren't legal in CA, but relatively speaking, not much is.

The AR-15 subject is a touchy one. I've shot a few of them before, and they are a lot of fun, no doubt. But their existence in the civilian market probably does more harm than good. They're expensive as hell, and they're expensive to shoot. A novelty item at best, and leaning more towards a toy than a tool.

yes they are legal and no AR-15's are not that expensive. $600-700 is on the low end

 

[norbar]

yes they are legal and no AR-15's are not that expensive. $600-700 is on the low end

That has me really surprised. That's an assault rifle ffs. Why would they even be so cheap? I can understand the reasoning of affordable pistols for protection but who the hell needs an assault rifle for protection? Jean Claude Van Damme? It's a sport, hobby collectors item and even if they want it legal they should tax the hell out of it, not make it cheaper than a laptop.

 

[Kanye West]

That has me really surprised. That's an assault rifle ffs. Why would they even be so cheap? I can understand the reasoning of affordable pistols for protection but who the hell needs an assault rifle for protection? Jean Claude Van Damme? It's a sport, hobby collectors item and even if they want it legal they should tax the hell out of it, not make it cheaper than a laptop.

Well, it's not cheaper than a laptop (over here at least).

Also, the expense with them comes with the accessories for them. You could easily sink $3k into one of those guns before you put a single round through it. $600-700 is very barebones, iron-sight, probably no magazines, non-adjustable stock. Anyone who's enough of an enthusiast to own one will own an assload of extra stuff to go with it too. They are also illegal in many states, California being one of them. Sort of.

 

[IH8Rice]

They are also illegal in many states, California being one of them. Sort of.

assault rifles/AR's are illegal in some states?? they might be limited to magazine capacity but i didnt think the rifles themselves are illegal.

yes, the $600-700 AR's are bare bones, but its still an assault rifle for a few more bucks then my new handgun i just bought cost.
http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/ItemListing.aspx?sort=priceLow&catid=7777

 

[DirtyMike]

Too may items here to quote everyone.

Fact, I can go get an assualt rifle today..... If i wanted to break the law

Fact, I can get a modified civilian version in 15 days..... If I want to follow the law.

Cooling periods I am ok with, obviously if you cannot wait fifteen days to buy a firearm, you need to relax.

Fact, there are WAY too many gun laws to begin with, first and foremost is that everytiime someone does something illegal<does not apply to this situation fully> with an illeagally obtained firearm, another gun law is written to be enforced on legal gun owners.

Bottom ,ine is that I can get into ALOT more trouble here in socal with my legally obtained firearms than an illegal firearm... What kind of **** is that??? Bottom line is that punishments and laws need to be directed in another direction, towards those who are breaking the law, not those who are obeying it.

Gun laws and debates piss me off, the current gun laws are bull****, and enforced like ****.

I do not support random joe blow being able to get military grade weaponry to have at home, but if joe blow wants something to make him feel better than fine, if he wants to go target shooting then fine, if he wants to just own firearms then fine....If joe blow defends himself from an intruder then joe blow should be within his rights.

It should not be easier for a criminal to obtain an illegal firearm in an illegal manor than a legal gun owner can legally obtain a legal firearm...... Kind of see the point? If you take away the rights of legal gun owners, then you end up with only criminals having the guns..... Anyone else see a problem with that?




Side note, as far as magazine and drum capacities.... it all depends on were you are at, Inc alifornia neither can hold more than ten without special permit, yet i can make a three hour drive to Arizona and buy a 100 round magazine...... Just because it may be illegal were you are, does not mean it is hard to get in a semi legal fashion.....

 

[DirtyMike]

Well, it's not cheaper than a laptop (over here at least).

Also, the expense with them comes with the accessories for them. You could easily sink $3k into one of those guns before you put a single round through it. $600-700 is very barebones, iron-sight, probably no magazines, non-adjustable stock. Anyone who's enough of an enthusiast to own one will own an assload of extra stuff to go with it too. They are also illegal in many states, California being one of them. Sort of.

I was just looking at one for 445 with folding stock, ten round magazine, and optical sights... Limited to semi auto only. I am still toying with the idea of getting it.

 

[Pesqueeb]

Hack: the difference between the US and Switzerland is the culture surrounding the access to firearms. It's not even the same universe.

Was discussing this with the wife over lunch. The shooting happened around 1a.m ish, I get up at 4 to go to work, and typically I stumble up stairs to check the weather (since I typically pedal to work) and cruise the 'net for a minute before I head out of the house. I learned of the shooting that morning because there was already three posts on facebook from teh locals about "now the liberals are coming for our guns". At that time the Denver Post was saying 14 dead, 70 wounded. It didn't occur to me until today just how sick that is. Not an hour up the road, one of the worst mass shootings has just occurred and your first thoughts/facebook postings are "What about the guns!?!?!?!?" Jesus, talk about detachment from your humanity. How is that anything but idolatry? These people have taken gun worship to it's highest extreme. The value of a thing has exceed the value or concern for your fellow human beings. If that doesn't speak to America's sickness and depravity concerning guns, I don't know what does.

 

[norbar]

Well, it's not cheaper than a laptop (over here at least).

Also, the expense with them comes with the accessories for them. You could easily sink $3k into one of those guns before you put a single round through it. $600-700 is very barebones, iron-sight, probably no magazines, non-adjustable stock. Anyone who's enough of an enthusiast to own one will own an assload of extra stuff to go with it too. They are also illegal in many states, California being one of them. Sort of.

So you can't kill people with the 700$ + lets say 300$ in bullets and magazines? Or do you mass murderers need the latest gadgets in killer fashion? As for laptops - last time I checked modern high end ones go easily up to 1.5k$ and up. 700$ is something a 20 year old could afford mowing grass. Don't you find that at all disturbing?

Too may items here to quote everyone.

Fact, I can go get an assualt rifle today..... If i wanted to break the law

Fact, I can get a modified civilian version in 15 days..... If I want to follow the law.

Cooling periods I am ok with, obviously if you cannot wait fifteen days to buy a firearm, you need to relax.

Fact, there are WAY too many gun laws to begin with, first and foremost is that everytiime someone does something illegal<does not apply to this situation fully> with an illeagally obtained firearm, another gun law is written to be enforced on legal gun owners.

Bottom ,ine is that I can get into ALOT more trouble here in socal with my legally obtained firearms than an illegal firearm... What kind of **** is that??? Bottom line is that punishments and laws need to be directed in another direction, towards those who are breaking the law, not those who are obeying it.

Gun laws and debates piss me off, the current gun laws are bull****, and enforced like ****.

I do not support random joe blow being able to get military grade weaponry to have at home, but if joe blow wants something to make him feel better than fine, if he wants to go target shooting then fine, if he wants to just own firearms then fine....If joe blow defends himself from an intruder then joe blow should be within his rights.

It should not be easier for a criminal to obtain an illegal firearm in an illegal manor than a legal gun owner can legally obtain a legal firearm...... Kind of see the point? If you take away the rights of legal gun owners, then you end up with only criminals having the guns..... Anyone else see a problem with that?




Side note, as far as magazine and drum capacities.... it all depends on were you are at, Inc alifornia neither can hold more than ten without special permit, yet i can make a three hour drive to Arizona and buy a 100 round magazine...... Just because it may be illegal were you are, does not mean it is hard to get in a semi legal fashion.....

That's what's wrong with the pro gun movement. You don't listen to the other site. No one wants to ban all guns. What they want to is limit their availability and lower the supply because with a lower supply it will be harder to obtain them illegaly. The post fact laws are stupid, sensible laws should just aim at lowering gun numbers overall, especially anything other than a pistol. It should be difficult enough to get a gun for people to really think about it, not get a gun whenever they are angry or their neighbor looked at them funny.

You really don't think something is wrong with the number of legal guns in america if your per capita numbers are 1/3 higher than 2nd and 3th countries on the list (Yemen and Seribia ffs) and 2x higher than number 4? Not to mention guns being very cheap in US as well as assault weapons with large volume magazines being available?

I know it's nice to think everybody should be free to do whatever they want but then we would end up in a ****ty word where Kevin Costner on a horse delivers your mail.

 

[stevew]

 

[DirtyMike]

That's what's wrong with the pro gun movement. You don't listen to the other site. No one wants to ban all guns. What they want to is limit their availability and lower the supply because with a lower supply it will be harder to obtain them illegaly. The post fact laws are stupid, sensible laws should just aim at lowering gun numbers overall, especially anything other than a pistol. It should be difficult enough to get a gun for people to really think about it, not get a gun whenever they are angry or their neighbor looked at them funny.

You really don't think something is wrong with the number of legal guns in america if your per capita numbers are 1/3 higher than 2nd and 3th countries on the list (Yemen and Seribia ffs) and 2x higher than number 4? Not to mention guns being very cheap in US as well as assault weapons with large volume magazines being available?

I know it's nice to think everybody should be free to do whatever they want but then we would end up in a ****ty word where Kevin Costner on a horse delivers your mail.

No there is the misconception,Here in is the botom line problem........ IT IS NOT HARD AT ALL FOR ME TO OBTAIN A NATIOANLLY ILLEGAL ASSAULT RIFLE BY THE END OF THE DAY, IN AN ILLEGAL MANOR....... But its a bitch to obtain guns that are legal in a legal manor.........

I listen to the other side just fine, and it is mislead. Making them harder to obtain legaly does not make it harder to obtain them illegaly.

The legally owned firearms in this country are not the problem, yes on occasion you have something like this, but the shootings you hear about everyday are not legal gun owners, and they are not guns that were obtained legaly.

This is a special case, this is a case were there were no indications that this person was going to do this. His weapons were purchased legaly, and used in an ilegal manor, it does happen...... but understand that if I wanted a non tracable weapon to kill someone who looked at me wrong, I can get that alot faster and cheaper than I can a legal firearm. I only have my firearms legaly because I respect the law and I know that if I do have to use them in a defense manor I will be in the clear for using a registered weapon instead of a street weapon.

 

[norbar]

No there is the misconception,Here in is the botom line problem........ IT IS NOT HARD AT ALL FOR ME TO OBTAIN A NATIOANLLY ILLEGAL ASSAULT RIFLE BY THE END OF THE DAY, IN AN ILLEGAL MANOR....... But its a bitch to obtain guns that are legal in a legal manor.........

I listen to the other side just fine, and it is mislead. Making them harder to obtain legaly does not make it harder to obtain them illegaly.

The legally owned firearms in this country are not the problem, yes on occasion you have something like this, but the shootings you hear about everyday are not legal gun owners, and they are not guns that were obtained legaly.

This is a special case, this is a case were there were no indications that this person was going to do this. His weapons were purchased legaly, and used in an ilegal manor, it does happen...... but understand that if I wanted a non tracable weapon to kill someone who looked at me wrong, I can get that alot faster and cheaper than I can a legal firearm. I only have my firearms legaly because I respect the law and I know that if I do have to use them in a defense manor I will be in the clear for using a registered weapon instead of a street weapon.

In the long term if done properly it does because it decressess the supply of guns. A huge majority of the illegal guns were legal at some point. Less guns to go from legal to illegal = less new illegal guns. How is that hard to see?

Also I'm not a us citizen so I never tried to obtain a gun legally in the US but given what friends tell me it is relatively easy, especially compared to some countries on the other side of the pond.

 

[syadasti]

This is a special case, this is a case were there were no indications that this person was going to do this. His weapons were purchased legaly, and used in an ilegal manor, it does happen.

Making them harder to get would have stopped the VT massacre. There were warning signs noticed by professors and he was officially declared mentally ill 2 years before he legally purchased his first gun. Clearly the gun controls are lacking if mentally ill people are allowed to purchase firearms. Should we allow child abusers to work with children too (I guess we do since that's what the church organizations typically do - just move abusers around rather work with authorities to send them to jail)?

http://www.cbsnews.com/2100-18563_162-4927476.html

 

[dante]

No there is the misconception,Here in is the botom line problem........ IT IS NOT HARD AT ALL FOR ME TO OBTAIN A NATIOANLLY ILLEGAL ASSAULT RIFLE BY THE END OF THE DAY, IN AN ILLEGAL MANOR....... But its a bitch to obtain guns that are legal in a legal manor.........

I listen to the other side just fine, and it is mislead. Making them harder to obtain legaly does not make it harder to obtain them illegaly.

So, what you're saying is that it's JUST AS EASY to get a Chinese-made Type 56/AK-47 (fully-auto, factory spec, of course) as it is to get a Glock 19?

Or is a Glock far easier to get since you could buy one legally (and illegally resell it 1/2 hour after you bought it), and the other has to be smuggled into the country?

The vast majority of guns used illegally were manufactured legally, distributed legally and sold legally. If you can't grasp that simple concept, then I really don't know what to say...

 

[kidwoo]

If you can't grasp that simple concept, then I really don't know what to say...

Don't say anything. Just move to a small mountain town like I did so you never get shot in the back of the head by accident by IH8rice or semper tubby&#8482;

 

[dante]

Don't say anything. Just move to a small mountain town like I did so you never get shot in the back of the head by accident by IH8rice or semper tubby&#8482;

I have no fear of getting shot by IH8rice or semper tubby&#8482;. I have fear of getting shot by someone who was able to get a gun thanks to the lax gun laws that they promoted. Or someone who broke into their house and stole their guns before selling it on the street for a few rocks...

There was a home invasion here ~18mo ago, and the elderly homeowner had a nice stockpile of guns. All that meant was that the thief was able to steal them after he tied the homeowner up (although he got greedy and demanded that the homeowner take him to a bank to withdraw money, and there was a standoff/shoot out where he was killed).

Just more guns on the street, stolen from a legal owner and used for god knows how many crimes...

 

[stevew]

If you can't grasp that simple concept, then I really don't know what to say...

you could try to get this to understand....

 

[$tinkle]

appropriate & measured responses by legislators to the fatal abuse of these otherwise legal items: alcohol, tobacco, meds, driving privs, have resulted in more restrictions, and without any substantive argument, have directly & immediately led to fewer deaths by those items.

what's so special about guns that makes people think(!) the appropriate & measured response to incidents like these is to flood the market with more, and to more easily "license" conceal carry?

want home protection? get a noisy & easily pissed off dog weighing at least 40 lbs, and if you have allergies, a shotgun w/ birdshot. still paranoid? become a cop & get necessary training.

 

[DirtyMike]

So, what you're saying is that it's JUST AS EASY to get a Chinese-made Type 56/AK-47 (fully-auto, factory spec, of course) as it is to get a Glock 19?

Or is a Glock far easier to get since you could buy one legally (and illegally resell it 1/2 hour after you bought it), and the other has to be smuggled into the country?

The vast majority of guns used illegally were manufactured legally, distributed legally and sold legally. If you can't grasp that simple concept, then I really don't know what to say...

My old friend is DEAD from this happening, I understand very well the implication of guns being on the street.

I do not care if it is a Chinese made AK, or a glock 19..... in the wrong hands they both kill people. the Cheaply made weapons are easy to find, all you have to do is look, and there are more on the streets than anyone is willing to believe. More laws against people that are not going to break them in the first place is just stupid.


Fact, Bad **** happened,
Fact, its already done
Fact, Neither scenario works. There is no perfect answer, if the world works without weapons there would not be any, it does not work with them either.

 

[$tinkle]

Gun laws and debates piss me off, the current gun laws are bull****, and enforced like ****.

missed this post first time through.

yes, would be nice if there were some sort of periodic judicial review to make our gun laws moar betta, not just moar of them

 

[Kevin]

My old friend is DEAD from this happening, I understand very well the implication of guns being on the street.

I do not care if it is a Chinese made AK, or a glock 19..... in the wrong hands they both kill people. the Cheaply made weapons are easy to find, all you have to do is look, and there are more on the streets than anyone is willing to believe. More laws against people that are not going to break them in the first place is just stupid.


Fact, Bad **** happened,
Fact, its already done
Fact, Neither scenario works. There is no perfect answer, if the world works without weapons there would not be any, it does not work with them either.

Fact, you have a hell of a lot more crime involving firearms then most other countries.
Wether this is because you have more more retards or because you have more guns, a combination of the two seems like a bad id to most reasonable people.

 

[stevew]

i've seen a quite a few people around where i live with concealed carry permits strutting around with their side arm and they always come off as people who are easily humiliated in verbal confrontations.

wide berth given.

 

[DirtyMike]

i've seen a quite a few people around where i live with concealed carry permits strutting around with their side arm and they always come off as people who are easily humiliated in verbal confrontations.

wide berth given.

That sucks, Mine is always with me, yet people never know it when we are out. I will say if you feel the need to carry because it makes you feel bigger, stronger, or just because you have a small pecker..... then your doing it wrong.

Do they carry it so its just mostly concealed? Or are they carrying something big enough that it just stands out?

 

[syadasti]

In the US various large financial transactions (like wires over $10K) get flagged yet the NRA won't let legislation fly that does the same for large ammo purchases like the Aurora suspect made to make his stockpile. Flagging either won't stop all illegal situations but it does reduce it. There is no valid reason ammo should flow more freely than money does...

 

[dante]

My old friend is DEAD from this happening, I understand very well the implication of guns being on the street.

I do not care if it is a Chinese made AK, or a glock 19..... in the wrong hands they both kill people. the Cheaply made weapons are easy to find, all you have to do is look, and there are more on the streets than anyone is willing to believe. More laws against people that are not going to break them in the first place is just stupid.


Fact, Bad **** happened,
Fact, its already done
Fact, Neither scenario works. There is no perfect answer, if the world works without weapons there would not be any, it does not work with them either.

So you honestly don't realize that the Glock is easier to get (illegally) because it's legally sold in stores, and the fully-auto is harder to get because it's illegal? Do you also notice how we don't have as many crimes being committed with fully-automatic weapons as we did in the 1920s when guns like the Thompson and BAR were legally owned by citizens? Do you also realize that a fully-automatic whatever will kill FAR more people than a semi-auto, and that an AR-15 with a 100rd mag will kill far more people than a Glock with multiple 10rd (maximum mandated by federal law) mags?

Fvck. I give up. Meant what I said originally, sorry about your loss but.... man, you need to reevaluate your priorities or take a good look at why laws are put into place, and how (and why) they get watered down to the point of being utterly ineffective.

 

[stevew]

Do they carry it so its just mostly concealed? Or are they carrying something big enough that it just stands out?

mostly men with cock dusters, third eye removal scar prominent on the brow, carrying for the world to see on their belt...