Wonder why the deraillure in a box never took of after Honda? I mean Sram and shimano could make "box" specific stuff and continue to charge outrageous prices but we could reap some nice benefits. Shifting while coasting, "less maintenace", less rideday ending mechanicals. And considering the small dh market I doubt Sram and Shimano would care about the small loss in overall sales.
G-BOXX Planetary, first pics
- Thread starter Wilhelm
- Start date
If you´re looking rather Argus-eyed you can see the specialty of the EFFIGear shifter. That quasi-trigger shifter is basically a modified twist-type shifter but allows for sequential shifting by means of a single paddle. Unlike a common SHIMANO or SRAM trigger shifter with two paddles revolving perpendicular to the bars, the EFFIGear device does rotate concentrically to the bars (rotation of +/- 16.5° to select a single gear).
PinkBike pics of an EFFIGear trigger shifter prototype (Roc D'Azur 2012: Cavalerie DH Gearbox Bike, Oct 12, 2012):
Moar pics from NIC´s 2013 open-house:
Courtesy of Lukas2046 @ MtB-News.de
Look at the trigger shifter.
Courtesy of Xiper @ MtB-News.de
Courtesy of Lukas2046 @ MtB-News.de
Courtesy of Lukas2046 @ MtB-News.de
THAT is actually a really good idea. Still offer different levels with different cheaper options. Carbon stuff for the weight fellas. sure it wouldnt wear as quick but the drive train revolution could keep rolling on.
Love that belt drive. Imagine owning a belt that didn't make a sound, and lasted year upon year with zero stretch and zero need for lube.
How well do they cope with mud/gravel getting stuck in the belt/cogs though?
hopefully woody will chime in, he's had a belt drive on his mini-link for years.
From what I've read and heard, just fine. They have slots cut out to shed debris.
woody don't surf (no more). I've ridden with him for the better part of 15 years though.
He's about as "ride it into the dirt" as anybody I've ever seen, and if there's a better way of doing it, he'll do the opposite just to prove it can be done. The belt took a lot of finagling to get right, as it has a tendency to want to walk, but once he added guides on opposite sides of the cogs (right front, left rear), the belt no longer moves. It slips if there's not a ton of torque on the rear wheel, and I think his clogs under heavy mud, but apparently the newer gates stuff fixes both these issues with mud ports and a central tooth for alignment. Pedaling it, you wouldn't really be able to tell it's a belt, but his (lower end) belt has a little bit of stretch to it, or so he's said. The gates carbon dealios are less stretchy. I've asked if he would ever get rid of it for a chain again, to which he replied no way, but it really doesn't seem like it's worth the hassle unless you want to be the guy who has the belt, and who always has people come up to him to ask him about the belt.
Personally, I'd stick with the chain and not have to worry about ultra high tension and...well...running a belt. It sure is different though!
Screw the derailure in box I want the real HONDA gearbox with an infinite number of gear choices that would just be sick!
The newer gates ones are awesome in terms of strength and resistance to stretching. I mean, if top fuel drag cars run them for belts.....
Downside is you need specific bikes that can run them (in order to get them to fit inside the chainstay.
Downside is you need specific bikes that can run them (in order to get them to fit inside the chainstay.
Me too but I suspect that would definietly only happen if I build one or steal Minnarr's, both which seem very very far off. Wonder why they reverted to the simple box idea from the infinite one since I suspect it was not a money problem? And why hasnt any smaller frame company picked up this concept, the parts are readily available, they just need to build a box around that swooping downtube. Like the new polygon proto or Antidote lifeline could easily fit the parts with some slight modifications.
It made a ton of noise due to having 4 ratchets constantly rotating back and forth, Also it was probably a little maintenance heavy. The major players could make mech in a box specific stuff, but probably dont because it would last too long before needing to be replaced.
Look at the images I loaded onto the gearbox thread last month. It was all the Honda info I had from over the years. It sounds like the UCI banned the cam box or whatever they called it. So they went to derailure style. They already have the design if someone approached and asked to purchase a few hundred at a time I would think it could happen. It will use either a twist or thumb shifter as well!!
http://www.ridemonkey.com/forums/showthread.php?t=97295&p=3913492&viewfull=1#post3913492
My understanding is that the UCI specified that you must have a finite number of gears. Even when using a thumb shifter and the Honda cam arrangement, you are still accessing a constantly changing gear ratio mid shift.
Actually the gearing would be jsut as normal with a trigger shifter. With a gripshifter it would be as many gears as your fine tuned hands could make (i.e how little you could move the grip). It is still also finite in the sense that it has an upper and lower limit, just countinously variable inbetween and that means as many gears as you have the capability of making minute adjustments to the leverage on the rods actuating the clutches.
I'd gladly settle for the deraillure in a box though, so rad to have a quite, low maintenace, high performing bike with fewer compromises in performance
Either way I think it was lobbying action from Shimano and Sram "hey UCI, no boxes in racing or else". Would be fun to see if the rule would be applied if someone showed up to worlds or something with a bike equipped with nice big black box around the bb.
I'd gladly settle for the deraillure in a box though, so rad to have a quite, low maintenace, high performing bike with fewer compromises in performance
Either way I think it was lobbying action from Shimano and Sram "hey UCI, no boxes in racing or else". Would be fun to see if the rule would be applied if someone showed up to worlds or something with a bike equipped with nice big black box around the bb.
The only difference a trigger shifter would make is that you cycle through to the next gear in a quicker more accurate manner, you still have to cycle through a number of ratios to end up at the next gear.
Do you have more details of this?
You mean the part between the jumps the shifter makes (the pull/release of the shifter mechanism)? Still in the end those ratios inbetween wouldnt/couldnt be used. What comes to question imo is how to deal/define continously and that means it becomes a measurement problem. Wonder how the actual ruling is worded?
Continously just mean stepless but this transmision i doubt could be measured in stepless process so if you can measure the gearing by that definition will be a finite number of gears. Many, yes but still finite. Not to be a superstitious conspiracy teorist but it seems very strange that an anusual rule stops the bigest leap in drivetrain tech for bicycles since its inception. Plus it wasnt a small homebrew project either it was a major company that had the financial muscle to make a severe dent in everyother frame/drivetrain company if they could have patented the concept. All types of bikes would benefit from a gearbox if (as they claim) the system is on par in weight with the standar driveline components.
But I guess the "true" gearbox will continue to be just a geek's wet dream
Yes, the ratios selected as the leverage points of the mechanism move from one gear to the next. I'm not 100% sure on the specifics of the ban, but know that it was related to the amount of selectable ratios. It may have even applied to the very first version which was basically a scooter cvt in a smaller package. At the time the internals were shrouded in mystery. Transcend I believe knows a bit more about the ban.
Barry Alan SIMKINS is a serious Californian ME. Currently he is working out an advanced functional automatic IVT prototype (SIVAT) that should be ready to ride in late 2014. The patent application for the SIVAT (stands for SIMKINS Infinitely Variable Automatic Transmission by SIMKINETICS) at USPTO is just underway. Maybe this type of IVT could become something like the Holy Grail of bicycle drivetrains. I am very curious. Further reading:
- SIMKINETICS Variable Speed Drive (SIVAT)
- Automatic Bicycle Transmission (IVT) at YT
The PINION guys did not show any spectacular news at EuroBike 2013 (neither a DH specific gearbox version, a sequential cable-actuated shifter, nor a hydraulic trigger shifter). In addition to Richard CUNNINGHAM´s PINION coverage at PinkBike they introduced all-new forged crankarms, scaled-down spiderless GATES front sprockets as well as a lightweight chainguide and a lightweight chain tensioner by CARBOCage.
Good news for all the G-Boxx 1 users: SHIFT:R - the first ready for production thumb shifter for the ROHLOFF SpeedHub 500/14 by TOUT TERRAIN´s affiliated company CINQ⁵:
I´m curious to see a tweak that would make the SHIFT:R suitable for the PINION P1.18 gearbox, too.
Quite a readable review of the PINION P1.18 box by crank 1979 @ MtBR.
I´m curious to see a tweak that would make the SHIFT:R suitable for the PINION P1.18 gearbox, too.
Quite a readable review of the PINION P1.18 box by crank 1979 @ MtBR.
A brief demonstration of the EFFIGEAR trigger shifter workings by Guy CAVALLERIE:All the three types of EFFIGear shifters will be shipped as a set with each gearbox unit:
Sequential thumb shifter (+/- 16.5° per single gear shift)
Sequential twist shifter (+/- 16.5° per single gear shift)
Traditional twist shifter (132° in total).
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Thanks a lot, tfj77! As always the very best EB picture collection in terms of gearbox/gearhub content.
Those prototype shifters by the Frenchman Gilles BERTHOUD ...
Pics courtesy of tfj77
... remind me of the old SR SUNTOUR Command shifters for drop bars:
Pics courtesy of Museum of Mountain Bike Art & Technology (MoMBAT), Statesville, NC 28677
Clean looks of a matte black anodized ALUTECH Fanes Enduro PINION P1.18 (XL), 15.88 kgs:
Courtesy of ollo @ MtB-News.de
Courtesy of ollo @ MtB-News.de
Michael´s all-mountain gearbox design, winner of the People's Choice Award, published at PinkBike.com in 2012. Though, the kinematics seems to be rather problematic.
DESCRIPTION: The purpose of my design was to visualize a strong, lightweight and aesthetically beautiful gearbox frame.
The frame features a sealed gearbox, and 160mm travel suspension travel with a rearward arc wheel path.
The frame features a sealed gearbox, and 160mm travel suspension travel with a rearward arc wheel path.
NICOLAI Ion 20 EFFIGear 9-speed to go into production now, i.e. the lightweight French gearbox did not disappoint the test riders.
- Geometry like conventional Ion 20
- 142x10mm through axle
- PM180
- 170mm proprietary EFFIGear crank arms included
- 1 shifter only included (choice of [1] sequential thumb shifter (+/- 16.5° per single gear shift), [2] sequential twist shifter (+/- 16.5° per single gear shift), [3] traditional twist shifter (132° in total))
- 4,300.00 (19% VAT included)
- + 120.00 GATES CDX Carbon Drive CenterTrack (26t front sprocket + 28t rear sprocket + belt 113t included, consecutive chain stay length 433mm)
- + 100.00 gearbox covers other than standard black anodized (silver, gold, green, purple, red, blue, titan grey anodized).
NICOLAI Ion 20 EFFIGear 9-speed in 2014 team colours of GATES NICOLAI.
Silas GRANDY (PT), Team GATES-NICOLAI
Silas GRANDY (PT), Team GATES-NICOLAI
Courtesy of Hoshi-K. JOSHIDA
Silas GRANDY (PT), Team GATES-NICOLAI
Silas GRANDY (PT), Team GATES-NICOLAI
Courtesy of Hoshi-K. JOSHIDA
that's one bottomed out tire!
rad looking bike. when's the enduro version come out?
rad looking bike. when's the enduro version come out?
that might be the least german looking bike that nicolai has ever released
and yet somehow still unmistakeably Nicolaï