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G-BOXX Planetary, first pics

xy9ine

xy9ine

Turbo Monkey
Mar 22, 2004
2,940
353
vancouver eastside
the cables move freely in the shifter; no need for friction as there's no return spring, just the counter rotating two cables. i can't really envision a single cable system that would work in this scenario. conceivably a strong return spring at the hub, but you'd have to defeat the indexing at the hub & move it to the shifter (which would have to be custom built for the correct indexing, etc). it'd be a bonkers bit of engineering to pull off. i recall aaron (lahar) talking about building a dual paddle shifter for the rohlof - i.e., up on one side, down on the other. could work, i suppose. perhaps with a (non-indexing) fine ratchet mechanism. not sure how you'd balance the opposing cable pull on the passive lever when shifting with the other though.

though realy, the gripshifter works just fine. i was opposed to them until i actually lived with it for a while. a non-issue in practise.
 
ChrisRobin

ChrisRobin

Turbo Monkey
Jan 30, 2002
3,403
212
Vancouver
I rode a 2003 Nicolai ST with integrated rohloff hub. Once you got used to the twist shifter it wasn't that bad but a trigger shifter would have been better imo. My buddy and I had brainstormed on how a trigger or paddle shifter could be made but we gave up pretty quick. I'd be ok with the rohloff style shifter on a trail/am bike.
 
HardtailHack

HardtailHack

used an iron once
Jan 20, 2009
7,666
7,022
Thanks guys, I have a pretty crap right thumb so I have just made my left hand shifter work as a 9spd and was thinking about what I could do for a rohloff.

I have a friend who works at a laser cutting facility so getting a few things whipped up shouldn't be a problem.
I was thinking of a thicker rotating plate with dimples around the side that a spring loaded ball could sit in the hollows so I guess indexing would be done up front.
If I did get the return spring adjusted correctly and cut the other cable short, I would think that you could have the lever so it pivots in one direction with a 1 way roller clutch and the shaft chopped at an angle the spring tension on the detent spring could be reduced allowing you to shift in to lower gears. I'd imagine I would give up after a few hours but hey I do like making stuff and as a mechanic I have some pretty handy friends.
 
Wilhelm

Wilhelm

Monkey
Aug 10, 2003
444
19
PINION to unveil three new gearbox versions at 2014 EuroBike, Friedrichshafen (DE):

PINION P1.12 (touring, trekking), 12 gears, 17,7% even increments, 600% range, 2,350g*
PINION P1.9 XR (gravity, e-Bike), 9 gears, 24,3% even increments, 568% range, 2,200g*
PINION P1.9 CR (urban, touring, e-bike), 9 gears, 17,5% even incr., 364% range, 2,200g*

PINION P1.18 (touring, trekking), 18 gears, 11,5% even increments, 636% range, 2,698g*
EFFIGear (gravity, touring), 6-9 gears, uneven increments, 260-444% range, 2,240g**
G-Boxx 1 (touring, trekking), 14 gears, 13,6% even increments, 526% range, 5,280g***
G-Boxx 2 (gravity), 7 gears, uneven increments, 215% range, 4,480g***
SUNTOUR V-Boxx (tour., trekk., e-bike), 9 gears, uneven incr., 610% range, 4,520g****

All weights approx.
* ...... gearbox w/o cranks (435g 175mm), shifter (95g), tens. (122g), chainr. (24T 38g), spr. (21T 29g)
** ..... gearbox (1,550g 9 gears, 6-8 gears less) w/ cranks (460g CNC 170mm), shifter (135g), oil (95g)
*** .... gearbox w/ crank arms, shifter, cables (special housing ROHLOFF SpeedHub 500/14 inside)
**** ... gearbox w/ crank arms (170mm or 175mm), chainring (22T), sprocket (22T), shifter, cables



There is rumor PINION will feature fat bike specific crankarms, too.
 
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Wilhelm

Wilhelm

Monkey
Aug 10, 2003
444
19
F1234K
10/4/2014 5:14 PM

"Well, I've only been out twice since I finished building it up so the ride experience included a bit of fiddling with getting my setup just right. I am still tweaking suspension settings since I have never owned a Pike or Kirk before.

So far though:
It's a size medium, but feels on the larger side, pretty much perfect for me. It pedals really well, and from looking at suspension profiling which suggested it would be squatty I am pleasantly surprised at how well it pedals. It really execrates when you get on the cranks.

Being concentric pivot you get no pedal feedback when hitting the rough stuff so it inspires you to let go of the brakes more and more. This is why I love my Zerode G2 as well. These sort of bikes just make you want to test your limits all the time.

It's shorter travel than the G2 which I rode on similar trails and obviously isn't as forgiving on the bumps but the G2 is a monster truck DH bike. When the fun bits are over and you need to get back to the top or to the next trail the Anakin makes easy work of the uphill bits.

This is also my first 27.5 wheeled bike. I am not used to it yet I can tell you that much. It feels taller... I've got to consciously make myself get deeper into the bike when things get rowdy but I am sure as time goes by I will feel more comfortable on the bigger wheels.

The gear changes are dead quite and you need very little action to change gears. The gaps are pretty big between gears too so at the start I changed 2-3 gears at a time and soon realised this was a mistake. 1 gear at a time is usually enough, sometimes you need 2-3 if there is a drastic change in terrain. Of course I can change while coasting as well which is mainly when I do my gear changes in preparation for the upcoming bits on the trail.

Quite is almost not even a strong enough word. It is dead silent with the exception of some free hub noises (similar to most hubs out there). The free hub is in the gearbox so the rear hub is a fixxy hub and the belt turns when you coast. This is not noticed at all while riding, but when pushing the bike up you can get slapped on the shin with the pedals if you are not careful since they spin around as you push the bike.

Corning is fantastic and as I said before it likes to carry speed and accelerate when you get on the pedals out of the turns.

The gear range is spot on and I managed to climb up one of the silliest hills we have in easy gear without too much huffing going on. I've not needed 9th gear yet. I'm not sure what speed the gears will top out, but it's probably 50km/h or close to that.

The Kirk is pretty damn good so far. Really sensitive on the small bumps and feels plush on the flat drops we have sprinkled along our trails. Still tuning it though so we will see. I'm used to CCDBAir shocks.

Overall it is exactly what I was after. A trail bike that behaves in some part like my Zerode but more suited to long pedally trails."


Specs
Parts / Brand / Model / Additional info
Frame Cavalerie, Anakin, Trail Bike 160mm Travel
Rear Shock BOS, Kirk, 216x63
Fork RockShox, Pike, 160mm
Headset Hope
Handlebar Spank, Spike, Vibrocore Team
Stem Reverse Components
Grips ODI, Rogue Lock-On, Deity Bar Ends
Brakes Avid, Code, 203 F, 185 R
Brake Levers Avid, Code
Shifters Effigear, 9 Speed
Front Derailleur N/A
Rear Derailleur N/A
Chainguide N/A
Cranks Effigear
Chainrings/Sprocket Gates Carbon Drive Sprocket
Bottom Bracket Effigear
Chain Gates Carbon Drive Belt
Cassette/Rear Cog Gates Carbon Drive Cog
Pedals Canfield Brothers, Crampon Magnesium
Front Rim Reverse Components, 650B
Rear Rim Reverse Components, 650B
Hubs Effigear Fixy Rear, Reverse Components Front
Spokes Sapim, Race, Double butted
Front Tire Schwalbe, Magic Mary, 2.4 Super Gravity
Rear Tire Schwalbe, Rock Razor, 2.35 Super Gravity
Saddle Specialized
Seatpost KS, LEV, 150mm
Seatpost Clamp Hope

General Info
Model Year 2015
Riding Type Trail/All-Mountain
Weight 33 lb 4.3 oz (15,090 g)
 
ianjenn

ianjenn

Turbo Monkey
Sep 12, 2006
3,003
708
SLO
StiHacka said:
4k EUR for a 10lbs frame and belt is a lot of dough tho.
Click to expand...
I am guessing the 10LBS is the box and cranks along with frame. You don't typically weigh derailleur, casette, shifter, cranks and bash-guard when weighing a frame. I would guess its around 6-7LBS if the box and cranks are out of it.
 
richardbigman

richardbigman

Monkey
Jun 19, 2010
113
23
Irish by birth, Cork by grace of God
mmm internal gearbox sounds damn good to me, spent half the spin today trying to get the mech out of way of the skutch grass on the ridge line i was riding, for the DH bike, GIMME one under 40lbs and Id be all over it! (still going on the thinking that Momentum is key for DH! my DH bike is 39Lbs for the record)
 
frango

frango

Turbo Monkey
Jun 13, 2007
1,454
5


So, if your balls don't get squished by the spring, you can always count on cutting your fireman by a spinning rotor :crazy:
 
Wilhelm

Wilhelm

Monkey
Aug 10, 2003
444
19
frango said:


So, if your balls don't get squished by the spring, you can always count on cutting your fireman by a spinning rotor :crazy:
Click to expand...
:D
BTW, meanwhile the guys decided to relocate the rear disc break rotor to the traditional place, i.e. @ rear swingarm.
 
Wilhelm

Wilhelm

Monkey
Aug 10, 2003
444
19
Video @ Vimeo.com already published in February 2015 revealed CAD renderings of the later Ion GPI bashguard w/ belt tensioner (see 00:03 and 00:20):


Moar pics of Ion GPI tensioner w/ 7cm diameter pulley, and snubber:







Very special NICOLAI Ion EFFIGear prototype w/ GeoMetron geometry, 170mm of travel, <14kg:


Thomas van der BRÜGGEN, owner of BIKEBauer, a NICOLAI premium shop in Ratingen (DE), and VULKATech who specializes in gearbox bikes. 2015 NICOLAI open-house April 17-19.

Finally, they were not satisfied with the performance of the EFFIGear gearbox for Enduro use (efficiency, kinematics etc. 1,2), so the project was shelved in favour of Ion GPI w/ PINION gearbox.

Paradigms of gearbox tinkering @ NICOLAI HQ, 2015 open-house April 17-19:










 
no skid marks

no skid marks

Monkey
Jan 15, 2006
2,511
29
ACT Australia
vinny4130 said:
This day and age other than cost why not use di2?
Click to expand...
Durability, hassle, not as much need as your not shifting under load like with a mech. And the shifters shif with less effort than a mech. But push button would be cool, and some don't like twit shift, although for shifting multiple gears in one hit its good.
Running a chain instead of a belt is what I'd do. Not sure why the Euros are so keen to do the belt thing. Next to zero maintenance is cool as you have it with the gearbox, but for the ease of replacement, lighter tensioners era, I can't see the worth of belts over chains. No big deal though, I'd try a belt if it came with it.
 
Wilhelm

Wilhelm

Monkey
Aug 10, 2003
444
19
tingers said:
Buffalo did that back in like 1997. In carbon!
Click to expand...
Alex MORGAN of Buffalo Composite Designs (BCD) was a great outside-the-box tinkerer.

Nexus was his 1994 bike w/ internally mounted SHIMANO Nexus hub - the first (sort of) gearbox DH bike raced publicly. Weight: 34 lbs.

Coffin was his 1999 bike w/ internally mounted derailleur & 7-speed cassette - the first derailleur-in-a-box (DIB) DH bike raced publicly. Weight: 38 lbs.

A few DIB-type bikes followed since ...
  • HONDA (J) RN-01, 2004
  • PeteSpeed (NL) = Be One (NL) = HAYES (US), 2004
  • No Smoke MTB (IT) Phaser, 2007
... etc. ...
 
Wilhelm

Wilhelm

Monkey
Aug 10, 2003
444
19
Not to forget the 2014 EuroBike 'cutting-edge' performance of ROHLOFF SpeedHub 500/14 'tuning' by Petrus MORSCH w/ PU foam* ...

 
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