[EVRAC]

First g-boxx with a trigger shifter I've seen:

Edit: Based on this picture I think they were faking it:

 

[EVRAC]

Thanks for those great posts Wilhelm.

That proto TST evo, with electronic shifting is amazing.
The gearbox has a whole new case and what looks like a more narrow g-con bolt pattern. Probably a long way from production though. I would explain why they aren't working on trigger shifters if they have elec. shifters up their sleeve.

Awesome.

 

[Wilhelm]

The pretty designed narrow gearbox of the electronic shifting "E-Core" prototype looks something like it would cover a CVT (light weight NuVinci ?).

Karl NICOLAI said that they are working on cable actuated trigger shifters for the G-Boxx 2.

The 2008 NICOLAI catalogue is ready for download now (http://whyexfiles.dbap.de/Public/NICOLAI/Katalog-2008/nic-cat-08-lr.pdf). The Nucleon TFR frame (G-Boxx 1) shows some updates.

 

[EVRAC]

the diamondback site's been updated

http://www.diamondback.co.uk/sabbath.aspx

 

[Wilhelm]

Thank you, EVRAC. Great picture, but this is not the all-new version of the G-Boxx 2 which were to see at Eurobike 2007. This is the version just shown in the *.pdf file at http://www.g-boxx.com/pdf/ut-pamphlet-show07.pdf.

 

[EVRAC]

I it will be in production though,

 

[Wilhelm]

Now with the all-new G-Boxx 2 version. Looks awesome!

 

[Wilhelm]

The specifications of the two NICOLAI Nucleon models available for 2008 (yet with G-Boxx 1, not yet according to the G-Con standard) can be seen on their updated website now:

• Nucleon TST evo http://www.nicolai.net/products/e-frames/e-nuc-tst-evo.html
• Nucleon TFR http://www.nicolai.net/products/e-frames/e-nuc-tfr.html

Unfortunately, not only the frames have evolved but the prices too.

 

[MrPlow]

I it will be in production though,

Th ebike below the one pictured is the production one (has a smaller gearbox using 7 internal belts I believe??)

Looked nice, still felt a bit too heavy though, I think a lighter weight (derailleur) bike still outweighs the advantages of a gearbox

 

[Wilhelm]

I´m afraid they will need a couple of years to refine and evolve the all-new drive train concept. I belive that the most important thing is that many bike manufacturers have the chance to get production versions of the UT G-Boxx 2 (7 speed) as well as the SR SUNTOUR V-Boxx (9 speed) very soon. So far I´ve heared at Eurobike 2007, UT will launch their first gearbox model in december 2007. However I´m not sure if they will ever overcome the weight penalty.

 

[xy9ine]

Unfortunately, not only the frames have evolved but the prices too.

but at $8500usd for a frameset, its still a bargain!

 

[Wilhelm]

@xy9ine

sounds like the 'lightweight' rohloff (reputed to be -1lb) has been delayed - and that it 'may' come out in 2008. lazy bastards! a light hub & triggers would go a long way to mainstream acceptance & use (in both gearbox & conventional rear wheel mounted configurations). you'd think they'd be motivated to pump these things out asap. still waiting for the big guys to pull something out of the bag & render silly derailleurs obsolete.

Yesterday the German online magazin "aktiv Radfahren" published some new informations from IFMA 2007 (http://www.ifma-cologne.de) about the anticipated "lightweight" ROHLOFF gearhub (http://www.radfahren.de/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=3100&mode=&order=0&thold=0).

• 20% smaller in size
• about 20% reduced weight (1.400 g)
• 14 speed
• even gear ratios
• enlarged gear range 580% (Speedhub 14: 526%)
• not allowed for hardcore or tandem use
• release of a first "hand made" model of the completely revised gearhub as well as a new twist shifter at Eurobike 2008.

The were no informations on a trigger shifter and no informations about the possible start of a series production (may be not before 2009).

 

[BMXman]

all these comments about weight???...people want to have it all and it's just not possible right now....if you're concerned about weight you should even be looking at g-boxx bikes...you're missing the whole point!....D

 

[vpfree05]

Can someone please design a gear box bike frame that doesnt cost 8500USD? I mean seriously. I understand the "technology" in the design but come on already. There is more "technology" and i use that word loosely for this forum, in an IPHONE and it cost 400 bucks. Although i have to say the Nicolai is a sweet rig. If the price wasn't on par with the space shuttle i would get one. I do wish i could test ride one sometime. They should have a booth at Whistler so you can shread one for a couple of runs. Now that would be cool.

 

[Wilhelm]

The price of the BERGAMONT "Big Air G9" with the 9 speed SR SUNTOUR V-Boxx was announced at Eurobike 2007 to be Euro 4.500,- (US$ 6.240,37) as a complete built bike (no informations about the components so far): http://www.mtb-news.de/forum/showthread.php?t=297485, http://www.transcendmagazine.com/gallery/view_photo.php?set_albumName=eurobike2007&id=P1040294, http://picasaweb.google.de/TFJ777/Eurobike07Part1/photo#5104594235428645154, http://picasaweb.google.de/TFJ777/Eurobike07Part1/photo#5104593513874139058, http://picasaweb.google.de/TFJ777/Eurobike07Part1/photo#5104593561118779330, http://picasaweb.google.de/TFJ777/Eurobike07Part1/photo#5104593595478517714, http://picasaweb.google.de/TFJ777/Eurobike07Part1/photo#5104593629838256098, http://picasaweb.google.de/TFJ777/Eurobike07Part1/photo#5104591005613237106, http://www.bergamont.de).

 

[xy9ine]

all these comments about weight???...people want to have it all and it's just not possible right now....if you're concerned about weight you should even be looking at g-boxx bikes...you're missing the whole point!....D

i think gearbox bikes have to come in at a reasonable weight if they have any chance to be competitive (at least in dh race bike applications). for what it's worth, the lahar can be built sub 40lbs without much difficulty (with a heavy rohloff) & is about 1/2 the cost of the nicolai tst (though i think scaling the company would necessitate price increases), so it seems somewhat possible (in theory) to build an effective, decently light dh bike at sub stratospheric prices. the development of standardized / cheaper trannys (ie, the g-boxx developments) should go a long way towards this end. toss in some offshore high(er) volume manufacturing & we'll be well on our way to affordable gearbox bikes.

 

[CKxx]

Is it bad if I want a gearbox just to satisfy my OCD about the chain slapping about? I want to keep a straight chainline at all times and just put some delrin runners on the chainstay, like a dirtbike. It will be grand indeed.

 

[auntie bob]

speaking of weight, did you notice this?

http://picasaweb.google.de/TFJ777/Eurobike07Part1/photo#5104591873196631282

maybe they meant lbs, not kilos? 4.5 kg is 12 lbs!

 

[xy9ine]

sounds about right, considering it includes cranks/bb, & is a stressed frame member with integrated swingarm pivot. lots of hardware in there (and, imo, not the ideal gearbox solution - proprietary cranks, limited suspension configuration options, etc).

 

[Wilhelm]

If you like to know the weight etc. of the SR SUNTOUR V-Boxx without cranks you could look here (http://www.srsuntour-cycling.com/SID=sifcf150c98093a2464e185f98a4d4b4/index.php?screen=sh.detail&tnid=1555):
"X-OFF V-BOXX"

• Speed: 9-speed
• Shift lever: TS7-VB-FR9
• Crank arm: CW7-VB-FR-R&L
• Material Housing: Alloy/Crank arm: Forged hollow alloy (A7050)
• Length: 170/175mm
• Finish: Gun metallic gray anodized w/V-Boxx CNC cut logo
• Q-factor: 180mm
• Housing: ID7-VB-FR9
• Gear ratio: Total: 610% / 1) 0,63 / 2) 0,88 / 3) 1,29 / 4) 1,45 / 5) 1,67 / 6) 1,80 / 7) 2,33 / 8) 2,96 / 9) 3,84
• Sprocket teeth: CS7-VB-FR22
• Teeth number (Front & rear): 22T
• Weight: 3.000g

 

[Wilhelm]

The most impressive pic of the 9 speed SR SUNTOUR "X-OFF" V-Boxx from Eurobike 2007 I could get was this one:

 

[CKxx]

Wow, it looks a lot like a car tranny. Before you know it we will need to buy cryo treated gears as an upgrade.

 

[Wilhelm]

I was a little surprised too about how tricky this gearbox looks inside. There are more pics by TfJ77 to see: http://picasaweb.google.de/TFJ777/SuntourVBoxxInside1.

 

[BMXman]

just an FYI for some of you...one of the main reasons Nicolai bikes are so expensive has a lot to do with the weakening American dollar...D

 

[CRoss]

I have a TST Evo sitting in the garage that weighs in at 46 lbs. This is with a steel spring on the rear shock(Fox DHX 5.0) and a Fox 40. There are several places I could easily lose more weight on the bike.

I am not sure the current price of the TST Evo frameset but I am sure it is around $8000

 

[dazz]

The most impressive pic of the 9 speed SR SUNTOUR "X-OFF" V-Boxx from Eurobike 2007 I could get was this one:

Cool pics, looks like there are magnets next to the selecting dogs. (see pic)
Constant mesh 9spd gearbox, wonder what the efficiency is like? Can't see why it wouldn't be as good or better than a rohloff.

 

[vpfree05]

CRoss. How do you like the TST Evo. I have only read one review of the frame the person claimed that is was great to ride and handle very well. How much does just the frame it self weigh? There is very little information out about this frame right now and i would like an honest review from someone that actually owns one.

 

[Wilhelm]

I really don´t know details about how the stuff inside the V-Boxx works, beyond the impressive pics from Eurobike 2007 (http://picasaweb.google.de/TFJ777/SuntourVBoxxInside1). According to tfj77, a member of the IBC, who took this great pics and who had the opportunity to see the above mentioned V-Boxx model with his own eyes, the parts inside the red circles would be no magnets but they rather would engage to something like a steering plate ("lager die eine art steuerscheibe betätigen bzw. ausheben" http://www.mtb-news.de/forum/showthread.php?t=107737&page=6, #219).

 

[xy9ine]

CRoss. How do you like the TST Evo. I have only read one review of the frame the person claimed that is was great to ride and handle very well. How much does just the frame it self weigh? There is very little information out about this frame right now and i would like an honest review from someone that actually owns one.

dirt mag did a bit of a review of a team tst (if you haven't seen allready):
http://www.nicolai-uk.com/Reviews/dirt-tst-06-1.pdf
http://www.nicolai-uk.com/Reviews/dirt-tst-06-2.pdf

 

[vpfree05]

dirt mag did a bit of a review of a team tst (if you haven't seen allready):
http://www.nicolai-uk.com/Reviews/dirt-tst-06-1.pdf
http://www.nicolai-uk.com/Reviews/dirt-tst-06-2.pdf

Didn't know that i'll check that out. Thanks.

 

[Sandro]

dirt mag did a bit of a review of a team tst (if you haven't seen allready):
http://www.nicolai-uk.com/Reviews/dirt-tst-06-1.pdf
http://www.nicolai-uk.com/Reviews/dirt-tst-06-2.pdf

Interesting, but what is the rationale behind a Sram team rider on a gearbox bike?

 

[CRoss]

I have only ridden the bike around the driveway. The bike is for my boss, once he rides it and gets it dirty I will take it out for a spin.

 

[EVRAC]

Cool pics, looks like there are magnets next to the selecting dogs. (see pic)
Constant mesh 9spd gearbox, wonder what the efficiency is like? Can't see why it wouldn't be as good or better than a rohloff.

I think those are cartridge bearings mounted on studs. They support the axial load on different gears. That's my guess.

 

[no skid marks]

I was thinking lubrication ports but they seem a bit large,and that seems a bit stupid so I opted not to. Anyone else can run with it.The large teeth would do for scooping oil wouldn't they?
They probably are just guides,be that bearings or nylon,or whatever.A magnet sump plug would be a good idea though.

 

[fellow pinner]

why does it have such a long name?

 

[Wilhelm]

Recently, Kalle NICOLAI posted some news about his gearbox (http://www.mtb-news.de/forum/showpost.php?p=4028546&postcount=178):

1. The G-Boxx 2 will be produced in Germany by his company UNIVERSAL TRANSMISSIONS GmbH (http://www.g-boxx.com) only. There is no cooperation with Taiwan yet. All parts were made in Germany. They tried to produce the gearbox overseas but they were not satisfied with the tolerances of the parts they got.
2. The pics on www.g-boxx.com are not up to date. The gearboxes shown at Eurobike 2007 were already looking like parts of the impending series production.
3. The steps between the gear ratios are even at all (linear steps).
4. They will keep all the technical informations secret to save their advantage in development so far. The delivery of the all-new gearboxes to the OEMs will take place around Christmas 2007. The website www.g-boxx.com will be updated at this time too.
5. The technical principle of the gearbox is simple. The service can be done by any capable bicycle shop, such as the service of a suspension fork can be done.
6. The 9 speed gearbox as well as the shape of the gearbox with plastic parts as revealed in 2006 (http://terrengsykkel.no/img/magasin/telex/full/gboxx-1.jpg, http://terrengsykkel.no/img/magasin/telex/full/gboxx-2.jpg) were given up and displaced because of they believe that 7 speed for DH and 14 speed or more for all-mountain use are just right. They try to finish the multispeed version within the next 12 to 20 months.
7. They have already finished the development of the ROHLOFF trigger shifters as functional prototypes but finally they were to big as well as to expensive for series production. Currently they would have neither time nor man power for a revision of this stuff.
8. Trigger shifters for the G-Boxx 2 are just in the works.

So I´m afraid Interbike 2007 may reveal some new gearbox bikes built with the UT G-Boxx 2 as well as with the SR SUNTOUR V-Boxx but we will hear the mystery of the inside of the G-Boxx 2 not yet.

What a pity that DW has given up his work on the "superbox" (http://www.ridemonkey.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2658892&postcount=11). Instead, he seems to prefer other fields of activity in bicycle related projects, in particular suspension design. However, I believe that so long as not any bicycle suspension design will reach perfectness in function like the two projects shown below, internal transmission systems resp. gearboxes will remain one of the most promising fields of activity in R&D in the closest future of cycling:

shocked.

 

[Wilhelm]

@EVRAC and all other mechanical engineers around. Does anyone understand how this gearbox by NICOLAI works: http://www.solidworks24.de/files/nicolai.pdf (see figure p. 5 [article in German only])?

 

[CKxx]

[3:20 in that video]

Maybe with this technology the XC guys will be able to get over a log someday without relying on their clipless pedals and bashguard.

 

[Wilhelm]

[3:20 in that video]

Maybe with this technology the XC guys will be able to get over a log someday without relying on their clipless pedals and bashguard.

According to 1:08 in that video (

), someday the DH guys will be able to keep a filled glass of beer or a pint of guinness in one hand while riding downwards ...

 

[EVRAC]

@EVRAC and all other mechanical engineers around. Does anyone understand how this gearbox by NICOLAI works: http://www.solidworks24.de/files/nicolai.pdf (see figure p. 5 [article in German only])?

3 counter rotating main shafts gives normal output direction (cw, ccw, cw). Worm gears engage and disengage the appropriate gear selection. I worked on a similar solution where each gear ratio had it's own ratchet mechanism. By turning these ratchets on an off, you can select which gear you want. The problem of the clutchless transmission is overcome by having 2 gears engaged during mid-shift. Whichever has the higher ratio would drive while the other could ratchet.

I don't believe this is the G-boxx2 we are looking at. But what is it?