[Dog Welder]

Originally posted by BurlySurly
Your buddy is a Forward Observer, which means he walks around and calls in artillery or airstrikes.
The people i know actually have jobs that would require such knowledge AND they were a helluva lot closer than Kuwait. Now, maybe he does know something they dont...but i doubt it. I'll take the predictions of the people who I know have at least some sort of knowledge in the area.

Im not a soldier, first. But secondly, my benefits are not the only thing I care about with this country. I'll not paint myself as some kind of hero, but this isnt the kind of thing you do for a paycheck, at least its not supposed to be.

If you dont know already BUSH is a hit with the military community. Life in the military has gotten much better since Bush took over. The troops seem to like him, and i believe he is an adequate leader who honestly does what he believes is the right thing.

Oh I know that BUsh is a hit with the military...I'm wonding what the vets at the VA hospitals think of him.

In reference to my friend I wasn't talking about and action or specialty that he may or may not have seen. I was refering to your statement that Iraq will be the richest country in teh mid east. The point I was trying to convey is that Kuwait is itself a VERY rich country with a much smaller population than Iraq. My buddy was telling me of the level of poverty that the majority of the Kuwaiti population lives under. So the point that I am trying to make is that yes it will be a rich country ....but at this point I don't see that money going to help the people. You yourself said that the US doesn't want to occupy and control the country. IF this is the case and our people over there don't do a hell of a job building that country back up...when we leave there's going to be **** hitting the fan. And next thing you know maybe it will be our kids who have to go back in there. What's done is done...the boys over there better do the best work they can though.

By the way I was wondering what your feelings are when people say "our boys are over there fighting and dying" when they don't have any personal stake in it, like a friend or relative is serving.
Oh and where your at what are the feelings toward Jessica Lynch? I discussed this with my friend and we both agree that she isn't a hero. She got lost, got hurt, got captured, got rescued, and now shes a freakin' hero? I heard shes getting all sorts of awards and what not for it...but then again I heard the Army gives out awards like its Christmas time.

 

[Dog Welder]

Originally posted by BurlySurly
People do this in any case because they want life to be a soap opera. They love drama. Remember that whole Clinton thing? Talk about a two faced liar

I tend to lean more to the republican side of things I know, but i wont play bad politics if a democrat is doing good things, just because i want my guy in office. I dont even like most republicans out there, but i agree with much that they do. I want to start some kind of decent middle ground.

Holy S#it we actually agree on politics. I lean more toward left but at the same time I to won't support a liberal if he says something false just cuz he's on my side..ex Micheal Moore that fat lying joke of a bastard.

 

[BurlyShirley]

Originally posted by Dog Welder


By the way I was wondering what your feelings are when people say "our boys are over there fighting and dying" when they don't have any personal stake in it, like a friend or relative is serving.
Oh and where your at what are the feelings toward Jessica Lynch? I discussed this with my friend and we both agree that she isn't a hero. She got lost, got hurt, got captured, got rescued, and now shes a freakin' hero? I heard shes getting all sorts of awards and what not for it...but then again I heard the Army gives out awards like its Christmas time.

Its funny you should bring up PFC Lynch, because I was just having a conversation about this very topic today with my boss. I think, NO, she's not a hero more than anyone else who was over there fighting that didnt extend themselves in some meretorious way. Of course, you always have people that say "they're all heroes" and yada yada yada, but really, she deserves a POW medal and i suppose a purple heart. Rumor has it that she is getting or may have already received a Bronze Star. WTF? Why? A bronze star for getting lost and captured and rescued? I know tons of Marines who killed more people, didnt get caught and actually HELPED accomplish the mission, that arent getting anywhere near that recognition. Its a travesty and it kind of makes a mockery of what we call a "HERO".

About people who say "our boys over there". I guess Im okay with that. I read alot of history type books, and sometimes, when im reading about WWII or something, and how soldiers and Marines died and fought so bravely, it really does well up alot of emotion, and i feel a personal connection to them, even though i dont have one other than that im in the military, but i felt that before i was in even. Actually, Im out in 9 months......WOOOOHOOOO!

Used to be, that joining the military meant serving the country; it meant sacrifice. To be honest, other than the occasional small WAR, its a pretty cushy life for most people. It almost seems that the taxpayers are doing all they can to serve us instead of the opposite. Ill have more on this topic specifically in another thread coming soon.

 

[Dog Welder]

Originally posted by BurlySurly

Used to be, that joining the military meant serving the country; it meant sacrifice. To be honest, other than the occasional small WAR, its a pretty cushy life for most people. It almost seems that the taxpayers are doing all they can to serve us instead of the opposite. Ill have more on this topic specifically in another thread coming soon.

Dude fvcking exactly! Like you said aside from the small war and policing action the military is a pretty cushy job. So when I hear sometime military folks bragging that they SERVED their country, I can' help but shake my head sometimes. Hell if you really wanted to serve your country volunteer at a VA hospital or get into teaching. Our public school system is a joke, how are we supposed to develop new generations of leaders if they can't even read?

So what you going to be doing after you're discharged? Going to try to stay in Hawaii?

 

[BurlyShirley]

Originally posted by Dog Welder
Dude fvcking exactly! Like you said aside from the small war and policing action the military is a pretty cushy job. So when I hear sometime military folks bragging that they SERVED their country, I can' help but shake my head sometimes. Hell if you really wanted to serve your country volunteer at a VA hospital or get into teaching. Our public school system is a joke, how are we supposed to develop new generations of leaders if they can't even read?

So what you going to be doing after you're discharged? Going to try to stay in Hawaii?

No way man, Im getting the damn out of Hawaii. Ive had it with this place....the next adventure awaits. Ive had some good job offers, and Ive been looking at some schools, so its still kind of up in the air. Wherever i go will have mountains.

In all honesty, a big part of the reason I joined was to do my part for the country, so dont take what i said as knocking that. Many people who join genuinely did so for the good of the US, because it is something that they do love. I love it. I recognize the need for the military and i support it, but I think its become more of a career option than a personal sacrifice for alot of people. Life is alot better for me now, than i imagined it would be before i joined.

About the schools, well, its true we need some work there. I dont actually know anyone who graduated high school and cant read, but Im sure they're out there. You have to really wonder about those people though, I mean c'mon...12 years. Maybe they should have ridden the short bus anyway. You cant just throw money at a problem and expect it to go away however. I think teachers should be more like ministers, who actually care. I know many of them do, and i dont know how money could help them out, but i think if you paid teachers alot, many people who really dont care would want to be teaching just for the money. Its a wierd thing.

 

[LoboDelFuego]

To comment on the idea that Bush only cares for the military currently serving (eg doesn’t care about veteran hospitals) that only proves he is a decenlty clever man (or has some decently clever people funning his administration) The first rule to being a political leader is to have the support of your army. As long as you have the guns, everything else can wait.

Teaching problems can often be solved with more money because better salaries attract better teachers. The only way youre going to get a motivated, educated cultured person out into the middle of nowhere is by paying them a lot of money. The idea isn’t to pay the teachers who are already there more, but to get better, new ones.

 

[ummbikes]

Originally posted by LoboDelFuego

Teaching problems can often be solved with more money because better salaries attract better teachers. The only way youre going to get a motivated, educated cultured person out into the middle of nowhere is by paying them a lot of money. The idea isn’t to pay the teachers who are already there more, but to get better, new ones.

Are you saying thecurrent crop of teachers is the primary problem with the American educational system?

If so I disagree for the following reasons.

1. You could take the brightest teacher, give him 70-100 different children spaced out over several class periods. Of these 70-100 students you are going to have some who are gifted, a larger number who are average and some who are deficient in reading or writing. Then add in the english as a second language (ESL) students who are in a standard classroom and the students *indpendent learning plans (ILP). Then take this diverse group of learners and make sure they all are taught up to "standard" so when they take the test of choice for the state they live in your district is not penalized for having kids who "are not up to standard."

2. Take this same group of students and then factor in that more than half of their parents will not even bother to show up for parent/teacher confrences beacuse they might miss American Idol or Friends.

3. Then factor in that Congress will create new regulations (see. No Child Left behind) and demand the states and local districts pony up the resources to make it happen.

4. Then tell the teacher that it's their fault Johnny can't read.

5. Then duck.

* ILP- A contract stating the teacher will devolpe (sometimes with the help of psycologists or probabtion officers) a customised curriculum for a student that apppears to be the same as the program designed for the rest of the class. The primary difference is that the ILP will be designed so the student can't fail.

This is just like real life. If you can't hack it your boss will change your job around to make it easier.

 

[LoboDelFuego]

Originally posted by ummbikes
Are you saying thecurrent crop of teachers is the primary problem with the American educational system?

If so I disagree for the following reasons.

No I said that increasing salary would be a good way to solve teaching problems. Not overall eductional problems. Once you hire the good teachers, you can then decide how to structure classes. If you don't have good teachers then nothing will work anyway.

 

[BurlyShirley]

Originally posted by LoboDelFuego
No I said that increasing salary would be a good way to solve teaching problems. Not overall eductional problems. Once you hire the good teachers, you can then decide how to structure classes. If you don't have good teachers then nothing will work anyway.

I think that the best teachers arent the ones teaching for money anyway. More money, in my mind, would attract worse teachers.

 

[ohio]

Originally posted by BurlySurly
I think that the best teachers arent the ones teaching for money anyway. More money, in my mind, would attract worse teachers.

Do you know how little current teachers make? Do you know how hard it is for a family to live on a single teacher's salary?

There are countless people that WOULD go into teaching but don't because they can't afford to because of student loans, a family to support, or high cost of living in their locales. I'm not talking about paying 6 figures... I'm talking about paying a living income.

Plenty of people go into medicine at least partly because of the money. Are you going to cut doctors' net income down to $30k a year because they shouldn't be practicing medicine for the money? People aren't going to go into a career thast forces them to deal with screaming kids, screaming parents, and screaming administrators because they think they'll get rich making $40k a year (which would be a TREMENDOUS raise for teachers). But that would allow some folks that really want to teach, the chance to. You'd have more applicants... with a bigger pool to choose from I guarantee you'd end up with a better fleet of teachers.

 

[laura]

Originally posted by BurlySurly

glutton for controversy.

this is a superbly accurate custom title for you bs.

 

[ummbikes]

Originally posted by ohio
Do you know how little current teachers make? Do you know how hard it is for a family to live on a single teacher's salary?

I sure do. We are making it on my wifes salary while I'm in school. I do get finacial aid checks that help out but there is no way we could do it on what Kim made when we were first married. The money gets better, she pulls in 43K and some change now. I'll start off at about a 27K base if I teach. If I do go that route though I'll coach also and depending on how many seasons I coach each year can add up 6K.

Together our salarys will be more than enough for us.

 

[ohio]

Originally posted by ummbikes
Together our salarys will be more than enough for us.

Right. TOGETHER.

I'm not syaing the current crop of teachers is the problem. They are overworked, under paid and underresourced. And I'm not saying that a simple increase in salary will solve all the problems. EVERY aspect of our public schools are underfunded.

I was countering the bizarre argument that more money will attract a worse pool of teachers.

Does more money attract a worse pool of professional athletes? How about investment bankers? Engineers? Butbutbut... they might not be doing it for the right reasons. No one cares as long as they do their job and do it well.

 

[ummbikes]

Ohio- you and I are seeing eye to eye on this.

I had a classmate in an educational theory class say that teachers shouldn't want more money and the desire for it somehow made them less pure.

Odd logic.

More money and small class size wouldn't hurt my wifes feelings at all.

 

[Moogie]

i wrote a paper on the missile defence "system" and it is the most worthless, poorly constructed, biggest waste of money ever.

 

[BurlyShirley]

Originally posted by ohio


Does more money attract a worse pool of professional athletes? How about investment bankers? Engineers? Butbutbut... they might not be doing it for the right reasons. No one cares as long as they do their job and do it well.

You think teachers who teach for the money are the right kind for your kids? I had some of those, who truly didnt care a bit about teaching, and just wanted a paycheck. It truly showed.
Being a good teacher, especially in the case of you children, requires more than just a working knowledge of the subjects...you really need to have a love for it. You cannot buy that. Perhaps some raises are in order, but the job defiinitely shouldnt become any kind of a status symbol for ambitious types.
Im not sure exactly what teacher salaries are across the country, but to my knowledge, in my home state of TN., teachers start out at about $25-30K per year w/ benefits.
What other career option can GUARANTEE hire for that amount? I know it aint great, but its a job that pays the bills.

 

[BurlyShirley]

Originally posted by laura
this is a superbly accurate custom title for you bs.

hehe, i like that.

I dont think they do those anymore though.

 

[laura]

Originally posted by BurlySurly
hehe, i like that.

I dont think they do those anymore though.

well that just sucks!:angry:

 

[nicklin]

Originally posted by T0mo
you guys gotta chill out. bush won, gore lost, end of story.

Sigh...I hate to be sounding remotely like a psuedo democrat supporter, but remember Florida?