gas at $20/gallon
- Thread starter Toshi
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date someone local, or sack up and move to where she is. not a valid argument imo, and it's going to happen eventually in any case.
Sounds like a great plan. While you're waiting for the stars to align, please do the following: Donate $16+ to charity for every gallon of fuel you currently purchase; stop racing your cars; only do your med school/residency at local hospitals; only eat local foods and throw away around 50% of your income/trust fund to simulate price increases. Finally, quit hiding behind the curtain of academia and join the real world. Let us know how that works out for you.
heh, one that doesn't get that great gas mileage to boot. but guess what? i'll be able to afford gas when it's $20/gallon, and you won't see me complaining about it. i'll be happier -- the roads will be more clear of the riffraff.The greatest thing about this thread is the fact that you have driven all over the country in a sports car taking pictures and $hit.
While I see where Toshi is going with this, to more of a European Model where they don't drive much and everything tends to be close by. Unfortunatly North America Developed with ease of travel. Brining Gas Suddenly up to $20 would cause a massive Depretion, The cost of Goods /food would be astronomical, and While the model you speak of being produced locally would take time to set up, probably years. in the mean time how would handle the Unrest / food Riots / Crime / and General dissention ?
asking me to personally do these things when there's no financial incentive would just put me at a great disadvantage.
what i'm asking is that everyone is on the same footing -- it is my firm belief that economic pressure is the only force that will cause any meaningful change in the way that americans live. anyone disagree with that?
you're essentially asking for the same economics in terms of dollars per miles driven. that's not my scenario here: my scenario is that it costs nearly an order of magnitude more to drive.
LOL...I'll have to track down some pics, I just read the news article
<edit> I agree with you Toshi, economic incentive is the only way Americans change. Thats why our tax code has so many write offs for things like energy efficient appliances
that's why i envision this happening in 2020, or ideally by 2012 as stated in the original post. it won't happen overnight -- i don't expect the government to levy some massive gas tax. instead things will just creep up as they are doing all so regularly now: fears of a war will drive up prices, the war will drive up prices, the lack of war will drive up prices, the hint of a terrorist threat will drive up prices, the disheveled hair on the president that morning will drive up prices...
gas will be 20 bux a gallon, minimum wage will be $40 an hour a new sunday world cup will cost $25000 and a small house will be over a few million
Maybe then we would develop a sustainable transportation network. Long haul back on trains where it belongs, with local delivery by truck.
Right. The most population dense areas have systems like this in place because there isn't an alternative...they've also been doing it for much longer. Now, if an earthquake were to split Cali from the rest of the country, Texas annexes and Florida floods, the rest of you guys might be in decent shape for the idea.
I am in complete agreement with this. It can and needs to happen ASAP.
no, you're describing inflation. have they taught you that concept in middle school yet? i'm describing an increase in gas prices disproportionate to inflation.
Well we wouldn't want that.
OK, forgo the cost increase simulations and simply try to live the way you suggest. If people even tried to live more responsibly there would be positive change, you don't need to go ape**** to improve things.
I'll be in the left lane in one of these doing 55mph.the roads will be more clear of the riffraff.
Don't bother honking, I won't move over.:biggrin:
i already do that. you and Jeremy rightly pointed out the ways in which i personally fail to live up to my ideal, but i chose to live in a neighborhood that isn't all flashy and exciting (no nightlife to speak of besides the local sleepy bar), but lets me walk to the post office, the grocery store, the barber, the bank, the local thai and chinese joints...
Here is a quote from your sports car thread:heh, one that doesn't get that great gas mileage to boot. but guess what? i'll be able to afford gas when it's $20/gallon, and you won't see me complaining about it. i'll be happier -- the roads will be more clear of the riffraff.
"in august 2005 i bought a WRX. i bought this WRX in new jersey. i live in seattle. this was the start of a crazy 23,000 mile, 13 month adventure. i bought it modded, albeit in a codgy, homebuilt way. in a fast 'n furious few months, i cleaned up the mods, redid what wasn't right, and along the way got into autocrossing. i rocked the Novice class but then was whipped thoroughly this way and that in Street Mod."
So you drove a modded out ozone killer on a 23,000 mile "adventure" across the country. And on top of that,
you got into autocrossing which is not even for transportation.
Its grown men driving around in a parking lot because their mommies would not let them race go carts as a child. Polluting the sky just for kicks!
Now you want to tell us you want gas to be $20 a gallon because it makes you feel all green and lovely.
And to justify why, you say you will be rich and can afford it so to hell with Blue Collar Bill who works hard all week to support his family, and would like to take a 2 hour drive on the weekend to ride his mountain bike. But on Toshi Island he will not be able to.
If this thread was supposed to be funny...........SCORE!
This is like when the crackhead finds Jesus and starts telling you how to live.
hindsight is a beautiful thing.Here is a quote from your sports car thread:
"in august 2005 i bought a WRX. i bought this WRX in new jersey. i live in seattle. this was the start of a crazy 23,000 mile, 13 month adventure. i bought it modded, albeit in a codgy, homebuilt way. in a fast 'n furious few months, i cleaned up the mods, redid what wasn't right, and along the way got into autocrossing. i rocked the Novice class but then was whipped thoroughly this way and that in Street Mod."
So you drove a modded out ozone killer on a 23,000 mile "adventure" across the country. And on top of that,
you got into autocrossing which is not even for transportation.
Its grown men driving around in a parking lot because their mommies would not let them race go carts as a child. Polluting the sky just for kicks!
Now you want to tell us you want gas to be $20 a gallon because it makes you feel all green and lovely.
And to justify why, you say you will be rich and can afford it so to hell with Blue Collar Bill who works hard all week to support his family, and would like to take a 2 hour drive on the weekend to ride his mountain bike. But on Toshi Island he will not be able to.
If this thread was supposed to be funny...........SCORE!
This is like when the crackhead finds Jesus and starts telling you how to live.
This is like when the crackhead finds Jesus and starts telling you how to live.
I am lucky. I work 5 blocks away. I just walk to work mostly. Unless its raining then I drive.
For the most part I own a car for fun. I outright own it so I just pay insurance and gas mostly. I do most of the work on it.. I just like to drive so I don't mind the expense. I might drive less. My car gets 30mpg and I top off every other week for like $10.
For the most part I own a car for fun. I outright own it so I just pay insurance and gas mostly. I do most of the work on it.. I just like to drive so I don't mind the expense. I might drive less. My car gets 30mpg and I top off every other week for like $10.
by raising the cost of gas you are effectively ****ing over everyone who doesn't live in the city. in order to make it fair you would have to construct amenities every few miles just so everyone can go without using a car to run small errands.
here's an idea, go out to iowa and propose to some farmer who is barely scraping by your plan to raise gas prices that much. i'm sure he would just love having to pay that much for gas when he lives nowhere near a grocery store or even a gas station...
here's an idea, go out to iowa and propose to some farmer who is barely scraping by your plan to raise gas prices that much. i'm sure he would just love having to pay that much for gas when he lives nowhere near a grocery store or even a gas station...
but, but, but he'll be a doctor so he can afford to pay that much for gas!!!So you drove a modded out ozone killer on a 23,000 mile "adventure" across the country. And on top of that,
you got into autocrossing which is not even for transportation.
Its grown men driving around in a parking lot because their mommies would not let them race go carts as a child. Polluting the sky just for kicks!
Now you want to tell us you want gas to be $20 a gallon because it makes you feel all green and lovely.
And to justify why, you say you will be rich and can afford it so to hell with Blue Collar Bill who works hard all week to support his family, and would like to take a 2 hour drive on the weekend to ride his mountain bike. But on Toshi Island he will not be able to.
If this thread was supposed to be funny...........SCORE!
This is like when the crackhead finds Jesus and starts telling you how to live.
Nationwide electric rail system coupled with electric cars/autos for shorter trips. Nuclear fission until fusion is developed.
I called in to a local NPR station today that had a Sierra Club guy that was blithering about "renewable energy", ie wind farms.
In short, I piss off hippies with my "Nuclear or Bust" opinion, because really, that's the only fvcking feasible way right now...
I called in to a local NPR station today that had a Sierra Club guy that was blithering about "renewable energy", ie wind farms.
In short, I piss off hippies with my "Nuclear or Bust" opinion, because really, that's the only fvcking feasible way right now...
point 1: 23,000 miles was how much i drove over 13 months. note that i didn't go on a 23,000 mile road trip. in fact, most of that driving was around the western states, so that i could be slave labor in hospitals.Here is a quote from your sports car thread:
"in august 2005 i bought a WRX. i bought this WRX in new jersey. i live in seattle. this was the start of a crazy 23,000 mile, 13 month adventure. i bought it modded, albeit in a codgy, homebuilt way. in a fast 'n furious few months, i cleaned up the mods, redid what wasn't right, and along the way got into autocrossing. i rocked the Novice class but then was whipped thoroughly this way and that in Street Mod."
So you drove a modded out ozone killer on a 23,000 mile "adventure" across the country. And on top of that,
you got into autocrossing which is not even for transportation.
Its grown men driving around in a parking lot because their mommies would not let them race go carts as a child. Polluting the sky just for kicks!
Now you want to tell us you want gas to be $20 a gallon because it makes you feel all green and lovely.
And to justify why, you say you will be rich and can afford it so to hell with Blue Collar Bill who works hard all week to support his family, and would like to take a 2 hour drive on the weekend to ride his mountain bike. But on Toshi Island he will not be able to.
If this thread was supposed to be funny...........SCORE!
This is like when the crackhead finds Jesus and starts telling you how to live.
point 2: i installed a cat in the exhaust system within a month of owning the car.
point 3: what this thread is about is how i think america is unsustainable as it is, and that hitting joe sixpack (and everyone else) in the pocketbook is the only way to affect change. you can sit back and take potshots at me if you want, but then you're only missing the point.
wind farms are probably more cost effective and safer for the environment in the long run. they can be a bit of an eyesore, but so are nuclear power plants.
now i'm not completely against nuclear energy, but it really isn't the best option out there. we just need more environmental groups to take their collective heads out of their asses and realize that it's actually worth it to put up with the wind farms blocking their views so that we can rely on a clean and renewable energy source.
this is all well and good but nothing substantial will be done to move away from the current system until it's too expensive to sustain.
if living in a city is cheaper per capita (and it is) then why shouldn't people be compelled to live in the city? like everything it's a choice: choose to pay more to live in the countryside, or to live with the rest of the teeming masses.by raising the cost of gas you are effectively ****ing over everyone who doesn't live in the city. in order to make it fair you would have to construct amenities every few miles just so everyone can go without using a car to run small errands.
here's an idea, go out to iowa and propose to some farmer who is barely scraping by your plan to raise gas prices that much. i'm sure he would just love having to pay that much for gas when he lives nowhere near a grocery store or even a gas station...
if that farmer is barely scraping by then perhaps iowa is not the best place to grow food. the good lawd knows we already subsidize farmers enough -- perhaps it's time to let MARKET FORCES, the right-wing bugaboo, do their work. if we have to import food, then so be it: that's lord opie's economic theory working for ya.
this is how it should be, imo.
No, they aren't. Wind farms cannot generate anywhere near the power necessary to take over even a small percentage of what fossil fuels are currently doing, especially if we're powering the transportation network as well. They're a bandaid/PR campaign for the whiny bitch Birkenstocked elitists who know they'll be well and dead before the problem truly rears its ugly head, or they're just flat-out delusional. The only practical "renewable" form of energy in our suns lifetime is nuclear fusion, and no one can contain it. Yet.
Nuclear energy is very safe, so much more so than fossil fuels. The only downsides are cost and waste storage. Like Toshi says, something catastrophic will fix the first problem. I don't know how to fix the second. Trains to a launchpad in Antarctica?
No, I got the point right away.
Its just not any fun explaining how fantasy island will never work here
where we as a nation are so rural and spread out.
I live for ironic humor and potshots.
It helps ease the pain from high gas prices.:biggrin:
well maybe not die.
20 dollars a gallon would cause food shortages nationwide, truckers would be able to drive their trucks.
Our nations entire infrastructure depends on reasonable priced gas.
Tourism
Bus lines
consumer products
produce
auto sales
ect, ect.
Not enough food is grown locally to support massive populations. Think San Francisco.
Most of our country's produce is Corn, a strain of corn which is inedible without processesing, with out cheap oil this food cannot be processed.
not to mention armed forces.
That's great. We did the same and even found a place where our kids can walk to all schools (k-12) and sports fields (though I admit the kids angle is more for my sanity than the greater good).
Those are easy changes though.
Gahh I just read the whole thing. Have you heard the term laissez faire?
Let the market determine the market. If people want to drive let them.
keep your hands off the Fvcking system.
Let the market determine the market. If people want to drive let them.
keep your hands off the Fvcking system.
Aw crap, RR is attempting to enter a socio-economic debate.
the laissez-faire comment is cute, though.
did you hear of laissez faire before last month? might i suggest some ayn rand after you finish up adam smith.
and, just because you didn't get the point: i'm not suggesting $16 in gas taxes to be applied. i'm just hoping that the MARKET will hurry up on its way to inevitable $20/gallon prices.