If you open one up, you'll see that it is full of baby seals...
gas at $20/gallon
- Thread starter Toshi
- Start date
the internet has this powerful tool called "Google". next time you hear something that sounds incredible and you'd like to see if it has any truth behind it i suggest you try it.
a) Toyota and Honda have battery recycling programs. google and ye shall find much info on them.
b) if you're referring to energy usage over the life cycle (including production and recycling of the cars/batteries/whatever) then i suggest you read this thread of mine from start to finish: http://www.ridemonkey.com/forums/showthread.php?t=193516
while it's true, it's positive progress.
ya but i am lazy and *doing my homework* (for a change) ignore that and keep posting
i think he may be referring to the massive amounts of pollution and poisoning stemming from the harvesting of the materials used to make the batteries, specifically in the prius. i remember reading an article about it in the AP a while back. i'll try and dig it up tomorrow, waaaay past bedtime right now.
edit: found a good middle of the road argument regarding the battery harvesting pollution
http://greenmesh.com/2007/03/unraveling_the_hummer_vs_prius.php
manimal,
thanks for looking into it but that article simply brings up CNW again. CNW was covered quite extensively in my Brammo Enertia thread.
here's the post in particular:
http://www.ridemonkey.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2776566&postcount=94
>>>>>
duplicated post content below from the above link:
since this thread turned into a discussion of hybrids in general, here are a few interesting posts and articles i came across.
you may recall CNW's analysis that purports that a Hummer has a lower life-cycle energy usage than a Prius. the reality is that it's a non-peer-reviewed study from a company that hasn't revealed its methodology, and furthermore its conclusion relies on the baseless assumption that a Prius will last 100k miles whereas a Hummer H2 would last 300k. but wait, there's more:
http://sortingoutscience.net/2007/11/28/_googlediving_hybrid_vehicles_and_energy_consumption/
how about a peer reviewed study from the Energy Lab at MIT?
http://www.cleanairnet.org/transport/1754/articles-69297_resource_1.pdf
in any case, however, it might make more sense for me to get a Prius (or Prius 2, or Chevy Volt) instead of this electric motorcycle. food for thought.
<<<<< end duplicated post
thanks for looking into it but that article simply brings up CNW again. CNW was covered quite extensively in my Brammo Enertia thread.
here's the post in particular:
http://www.ridemonkey.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2776566&postcount=94
>>>>>
duplicated post content below from the above link:
since this thread turned into a discussion of hybrids in general, here are a few interesting posts and articles i came across.
you may recall CNW's analysis that purports that a Hummer has a lower life-cycle energy usage than a Prius. the reality is that it's a non-peer-reviewed study from a company that hasn't revealed its methodology, and furthermore its conclusion relies on the baseless assumption that a Prius will last 100k miles whereas a Hummer H2 would last 300k. but wait, there's more:
http://sortingoutscience.net/2007/11/28/_googlediving_hybrid_vehicles_and_energy_consumption/
so if we discount the widely-publicized-but-horribly-flawed results from CNW, whom should we trust?sortingoutscience.net said:
how about a peer reviewed study from the Energy Lab at MIT?
http://www.cleanairnet.org/transport/1754/articles-69297_resource_1.pdf
my own note is that they assumed a total-system energy efficiency of 32% for electric vehicles. Tesla's calculations dispute this, citing a figure of 52.5% (source: http://209.85.173.104/search?q=cache:u0S4-tHUbn8J:www.stanford.edu/group/greendorm/participate/cee124/TeslaReading.pdf+tesla+21st+century+car&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us&client=safari). a change in this figure would affect results dramatically...MIT Energy Lab said:
The bars shown are meant to suggest the range of our
uncertainty about the results but, as expected, even the uncertainties are uncertain. We
estimate uncertainty at about plus or minus 30% for fuel cell and battery vehicles, 20% for
ICE hybrids, and 10% for other vehicle technologies.
[...]
Vehicles with hybrid propulsion systems using either ICE or fuel cell power plants
are the most efficient and lowest-emitting technologies assessed. In general, ICE
hybrids appear to have advantages over fuel cell hybrids with respect to life cycle
GHG emissions, energy efficiency, and vehicle cost, but the differences are within the
uncertainties of our results and depend on the source of fuel energy.
in any case, however, it might make more sense for me to get a Prius (or Prius 2, or Chevy Volt) instead of this electric motorcycle. food for thought.
<<<<< end duplicated post
barring the fact that it's a walmart, the idea of shopping centers IN A NEIGHBORHOOD isn't all that bad of an idea. people can actually WALK or RIDE to the store like most people do in europe and bigger cities. less gass + exercise = 
I agree completely!...the idea of shopping centers IN A NEIGHBORHOOD isn't all that bad of an idea. people can actually WALK or RIDE to the store like most people do in europe and bigger cities. less gass + exercise =
Also and FYI: Wal-Mart is no longer evil, so y'all can stop hating
barring the fact that it's a walmart, the idea of shopping centers IN A NEIGHBORHOOD isn't all that bad of an idea. people can actually WALK or RIDE to the store like most people do in europe and bigger cities. less gass + exercise =
People will still drive. Hell most people drive to their mailbox if it is more than 30 yards away. At least they will not be driving as far.
Haha, from a real estate standpoint, they're still fkin evil though.I agree completely!
Also and FYI: Wal-Mart is no longer evil, so y'all can stop hating
i wonder how many people would park the car and ride to get their groceries (when feasible) if there was a tax break calculated on how many miles you put on your car per year.
less gas, better health, less healthcare costs.....
less gas, better health, less healthcare costs.....
the real problem is too many people.
enforce people to have 1 kid and the world will be fine.
enforce people to have 1 kid and the world will be fine.
I think that is Toshi's idea behind $20 gas. Tax the crap out of gas, lower other taxes. It would be an interesting spin on a consumption tax. Local goods are available would end up being cheaper but it probably wouldn't affect imports as much as freighters would just fuel up somewhere else. I like the concept, not so much from an economical standpoing but from a quality of life standpoint. Building clusters of communities would mean less time/stress involved in travel.
I see people driving around in circles all the time waiting for a "close" parking spot to open up.
30 yards is a long way in the land of electric scooters for grocery shopping.
You would think being too fat to walk around and buy more food
to make you fatter would be an eye opener, but not so much.
I was noticing the other day that the people riding the scooter grocery carts are typically really fat....I wish being fat would stop being considered a disability
nice.. i'd shop that
Good article on Wally WorldAlso and FYI: Wal-Mart is no longer evil, so y'all can stop hating
http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune_archive/2004/03/08/363689/index.htm
But growing up with Wal-Mart HQ in my back yard where 1/3 of your friends parents are somehow involved in the company, it still sucks. A lot of people I know who work for Wally World refuse to shop there, but its just a necessary evil for a lot of people.
Good idea....I think the health insurance industry as well as the car insurance industry should already have such a program for people who take care of themselves...D
I don't think I've ever said anything bad about you until right now -
you're a dumb ass
Not everyone can hope on their little bike and ride to work.
Dumbass:
A person who calls someone a dumbass without backing it up
Edit: You even look like more of a "dumbass" because you obviously don't understand what he's proposing...it's not as cut and dry and you put it...D
I see this happening when I go to the gym. Once inside they wait in line to get on a treadmill.
There is even this one woman who I work with that has a handicapped sticker and parks in the handicapped spot. She runs marathons.
I agree with n8 on this one. Best way to reduce consumption is to reduce consumers. Don't have to make it illegal just don't encourage it. Stop tax breaks after one child.
Of course n8's political party won't hand out condoms in this or other countries.
sometimes it just doesn't matter what you use. my youngest was conceived through two forms of contraceptive. friggin fertile myrtle's we are (good thing i'm fixed now
)and yes, before any of you say it..i'm sure she's mine
But you can consolidate trips, carpool, sell your H3...
Toshi knows it was a dumb statement, he was just trying to incite a discussion using the benefits and consequences of something extreme. Funny how $5.00/gallon isn't extreme enough.
right now at $2.80-$3.05 a gal for fuel, its only costing me less than 3.5% of my income to feed my 4 vehicles in our 2 driver household.
Sure.. 1% would be soooo much betta.
Sure.. 1% would be soooo much betta.
if there was someone on RM that I would kill it would be blue
blue "sell the H3 yet, pencildick?"
What a god damn tool
blue "sell the H3 yet, pencildick?"
What a god damn tool
lets see $20 for a gallon of gas.Dumbass:
A person who calls someone a dumbass without backing it up
Edit: You even look like more of a "dumbass" because you obviously don't understand what he's proposing...it's not as cut and dry and you put it...D
what the fvck is there to back up? That would send our county if not the world into chaos.
I just thought it should be noted that today oil closed at over $100 a barrel for the first time ever.
Welcome to our brave new world.
Welcome to our brave new world.
So basically some of you would have us turn back the hands of time and return to the good ol' Middle Ages...??
What a brilliant idea!
What a brilliant idea!
read the thread...he's not saying it should happen tomorrow...he's suggesting that gas prices should reflect the true impact is has on our resources. Oil is not going to last forever but folks are behaving like it is.
If it was $20/gal folks would be forced into alternative methods...instead of just cruising along like everything is fine. I mean it's cheaper than bottled water for fvksakes!!!...D
So, people are going to get 'forced' into alternative methods at some point anyway right? Why the big ****ing rush to artificially create a crisis years ahead of it's time? Just to prove your point?
Goddamn eco-drama-queens...I'll bet most of ya'll drink that bottled **** instead of tap too.
They best not cuz bottled water is one of the worst things a person can participate in.
...while holding forth on the wastefullness of others.
(off wikipedia....)
The Pacific Institute calculates that the process of making the plastic bottles for the water bottles consumed in the U.S. uses approximately 20 million barrels of oil per year. The manufacture of every ton of PET produces around 3 tons of carbon dioxide (CO2). Bottling water thus created more than 2.5 million tons of CO2 in 2006. [4]
Once the bottle is created and filled with water, large amounts of fossil fuel are expended delivering the water from its source to end user by means of ground transportation. Some bottled water is transported long distances by ship in addition to the distances it travels by truck or rail. It takes a fair amount of energy to move a plastic bottle from where it is made, to where it is filled, then to the store, and finally into the consumer's hand. 250g of CO2 are released for each bottle of FIJI Water imported to the United States. This includes 93g for manufacturing a bottle in China, 4g for transporting an empty bottle to Fiji, and 153g for shipping a full bottle to the United States. [5]
Overall, the average energy cost to make the plastic, fill the bottle, transport it to market and then deal with the waste would be "like filling up a quarter of every bottle with oil." (Peter Gleick, an expert on water policy and director at the Pacific Institute in Oakland, California
So your stance is continue to piss away resources until they are gone, then worry about it? Nice plan.
Better plan than prematurely starving myself to death while there's a bunch of food in the fridge that I'm pretending isn't there in order to motivate me to go find something to eat. I'm not advocating being wasteful, but that sounds like a stupid idea to me. You can obviously still worry about it now without moving up the timetable artificially.
How about eating in moderation so you don't become a typical fat ass American like the rest of society? The idea is moderation, not starvation.
If gas was $20 a gallon, you wouldn't be so quick to jump in the car. That is the point.