[jonKranked]

updates: i got the cranks a while back, but never got around to installing them, because reasons. i'm now less than 2 weeks out from the ride and don't think that'd be enough time to get used to the jump up in chainring size before the ride. i do have enough time to swap them out and get a test ride in to confirm either way, and have enough time to swap back if i decide against it at this point.

 

[jonKranked]

now that my charity ride 75 miler is behind me, i want to finally get my cranks installed. but i want to swap chain/cassette so everything wears together. i could potentially jump up from 9 spd to 10 spd - or possibly 11? the cranks i got have 10speed chain rings, but i seem to recall for chainrings it won't make a difference. is that correct?

i also seem to recall some sort of fuckery with 10 speed cassette spacing, can anyone confirm?

 

[Sandwich]

I am running 10 speed cranks with 11 speed MTB cassette/chain without issue. I think that's a confirmed hack that 10s rings work with either setup. It seems to be working and shifting fine for me.

You can relatively easily swap between 9 and 10 without issue, and 11 speed is possible, but 11 speed cassettes won't fit on 10 speed wheels unless you are using MTB cassettes or freaky hacked cassette. You can buy a relatively expensive 11-34 11 speed that will work on a 10 speed, or a machined 11 speed 11-28 or something desirable that will fit on a 10 speed wheel. Or you can buy a new freehub.

I am running an 11-40 cassette with 34-50 front rings off a 10 speed and an 11 speed chain. Shimano cassette and chain, FSA rings, and SRAM derailleurs and shifters. Remarkably, it all works very well.

I am going through something relatively similar with the spooky. I am going to buy a Sensah group from aliexpress. They were apparently built by ex SRAM engineers and work fairly well at 1/7th the cost of 105. I would much rather get 11 speed than 10 speed, but all of my wheels are 10 speed. So, I will need to either settle for 10s or buy a $120 cassette with the butt machined out and use that.

https://www.lascoconcept.com/en/11s-cassette/

 

[jonKranked]

@Sandwich I'm currently running a 9spd cassette/hub. so i should be good for 11 spd.

 

[6thElement]

@Sandwich I'm currently running a 9spd cassette/hub. so i should be good for 11 spd.

Road 11 speed cassette is slightly wider than MTB 11 speed cassette as it doesn't have the ability to overhang the spokes like MTB ones do.

On a road 11 speed freehub you use a slim spacer with a 10 speed cassette to take up the extra width.

 

[jonKranked]

Road 11 speed cassette is slightly wider than MTB 11 speed cassette as it doesn't have the ability to overhang the spokes like MTB ones do.

On a road 11 speed freehub you use a slim spacer with a 10 speed cassette to take up the extra width.

does that mean i can't run a road 11spd cassette on a road 9spd hub?

 

[6thElement]

does that mean i can't run a road 11spd cassette on a road 9spd hub?

They made freehubs wider for road 11 speed, so probably not.

You'll likely need something like the 11 speed cassette sandwich linked which has the back machined to reduce the width, or you might be able to get an 11 speed freehub. What hub is it?

 

[jonKranked]

They made freehubs wider for road 11 speed, so probably not.

You'll likely need something like the 11 speed cassette sandwich linked which has the back machined to reduce the width, or you might be able to get an 11 speed freehub. What hub is it?

some old FSA wheels, i can check the exact model. notable that they were from the very brief time period when road hubs were made in 130 spacing and disc compatible.

i'm not super hard up run 11spd, i just figured if i need to replace my cassette and chain anyways (along with the new cranks i already have), now would be the time to upgrade

 

[Sandwich]

does that mean i can't run a road 11spd cassette on a road 9spd hub?

This is correct, kind of.

You can run 11-34 11 speed cassettes and larger. So, 11-34, 11-40, 11-42 gravel and MTB cassettes without issue.

You cannot run road 11 speed cassettes, like 11-32 and smaller. You need to have a road 11 speed freehub.

Road 11 speed basically takes the shoulder off the freehub body and the cassette lives closer to the spokes. On the MTB stuff, the larger cogs occupy a similar space but simply clear the shoulder that exists on 10sp hubs.

The cassette I linked above is machined to occupy the same space but obviously it's not as slick as the correct freehub interface.

 

[jonKranked]

This is correct, kind of.

You can run 11-34 11 speed cassettes and larger. So, 11-34, 11-40, 11-42 gravel and MTB cassettes without issue.

You cannot run road 11 speed cassettes, like 11-32 and smaller. You need to have a road 11 speed freehub.

Road 11 speed basically takes the shoulder off the freehub body and the cassette lives closer to the spokes. On the MTB stuff, the larger cogs occupy a similar space but simply clear the shoulder that exists on 10sp hubs.

The cassette I linked above is machined to occupy the same space but obviously it's not as slick as the correct freehub interface.

so 11spd road is slightly wider than 11spd mtn. got it. i want to keep a normal size road cassette, so that's out.

what about 10 speed road? would a 10spd road cassette fit on a 9spd hub?

 

[Sandwich]

so 11spd road is slightly wider than 11spd mtn. got it. i want to keep a normal size road cassette, so that's out.

what about 10 speed road? would a 10spd road cassette fit on a 9spd hub?

yep, without issue.

5-6-7-8 same spacing, more gears

9 different spacing, same freehub

10 even differenter spacing, same freehub

11 marginally different spacing, different freehub

12s ???? all bets are off

I am running 10s on my tri bike and it's pretty decent. Good availability of parts and excellent cross-compatibility. 11 is where it started to get weird, and 12 is when the war started. I am waffling between 11 and 10 on the spooky because 10 gives me more compatibility with the things that i have, but the 11s derailleur seems like a higher quality unit.

 

[jonKranked]

yep, without issue.

5-6-7-8 same spacing, more gears

9 different spacing, same freehub

10 even differenter spacing, same freehub

11 marginally different spacing, different freehub

12s ???? all bets are off

I am running 10s on my tri bike and it's pretty decent. Good availability of parts and excellent cross-compatibility. 11 is where it started to get weird, and 12 is when the war started. I am waffling between 11 and 10 on the spooky because 10 gives me more compatibility with the things that i have, but the 11s derailleur seems like a higher quality unit.

noted. the one appeal to me is to have smaller jumps between gears to make it easier to fine tune cadence. i have retroshift (gevenelle now) brake/shifters, so its actually just an index shifter that i'd need. and like i said, i need a new cassette and chain anyways. i figure this will get me some more years out of this bike and figure out if i do want to eventually get a proper modern road bike.

 

[Sandwich]

noted. the one appeal to me is to have smaller jumps between gears to make it easier to fine tune cadence. i have retroshift (gevenelle now) brake/shifters, so its actually just an index shifter that i'd need. and like i said, i need a new cassette and chain anyways. i figure this will get me some more years out of this bike and figure out if i do want to eventually get a proper modern road bike.

I am with you. I've said it before, but the more I ride on the road, the more sensitive I get to cadence. Having small steps is awesome. In addition, having a good spacing of gears then adding an additional bailout gear is where MOAR speeds really comes in handy.

I put the 11-23 cluster on the 10s tri bike and it's awesome for maintaining cadence, but I could really use a 25 or even a 25 and 28 low gears for when things get steep. It makes things that are purpose built a little less specific.

Anyways, I would probably be happy with 10 speed, but as not-confident as I am in a Chinese groupset, I am even less confident in the 10s varietal.

 

[jonKranked]

I am with you. I've said it before, but the more I ride on the road, the more sensitive I get to cadence. Having small steps is awesome. In addition, having a good spacing of gears then adding an additional bailout gear is where MOAR speeds really comes in handy.

I put the 11-23 cluster on the 10s tri bike and it's awesome for maintaining cadence, but I could really use a 25 or even a 25 and 28 low gears for when things get steep. It makes things that are purpose built a little less specific.

Anyways, I would probably be happy with 10 speed, but as not-confident as I am in a Chinese groupset, I am even less confident in the 10s varietal.

now to figure out which cage length - short or medium. cranks are compact double (50/34). if i bumped to an 11-28 cassette, the formula i'm seeing is (cassette range difference) + (chainring difference), so (28-11)+(50-34) = 33, info i'm seeing on 10 speed derailleurs is that max capacity is 34T for short cage, so i should be good, right?

 

[Sandwich]

I think you can get away with short cage until you get into a bigger cassette

 

[jonKranked]

I think you can get away with short cage until you get into a bigger cassette

bigger than a 28?

besides, running in 50-28 gearing would technically be cross shifting no?

 

[6thElement]

bigger than a 28?

besides, running in 50-28 gearing would technically be cross shifting no?

Short cage will work with a 28, my ~15 year old SRAM Force 10 speed with 50/34 runs happily with a 28 cassette.

 

[jonKranked]

Short cage will work with a 28, my ~15 year old SRAM Force 10 speed with 50/34 runs happily with a 28 cassette.

danke.

 

[Sandwich]

bigger than a 28?

besides, running in 50-28 gearing would technically be cross shifting no?

Yes, I think a SS can go up to 30t and is technically rated to 28t. You need a bigger cage to take up a 32+

 

[6thElement]

They'll likely struggle to go any bigger than 28. I think it's a medium cage (WiFli?) we put on my wife's old 11 speed SRAM Force to use with a 32 cassette.

edit: What he said.

 

[Sandwich]

Well I've been on 1x since starting this thread and I am definitely a fan, with reservations. It's awesome out here in eastern MA with short, punchy climbs and continuously rolling terrain. It's far more of a pain when the climbs are sustained/miles long or are particularly steep. I will likely attempt another climb of wachussett again and I can see wanting a lower granny gear, but I am loving it otherwise.

I have 2x on my backup/commuter/climbing spooky, and I find it sometimes frustrating with the continuous shifting if you can't find an ideal gear (I spin out the small chainging on rolling terrain, but need lower gears in the big one). This might be solved by a different chainset (smaller so I can stay in the big ring, bigger so I can stay in the small ring????) but I'm not there yet. On the TT bike I have a 2x10 with a small cluster and that works really well.

So, strokes for folks. AXS is an ideal 1x setup provided you pay attention to the batteries

 

[amishmatt]

I converted my road bike to a 1x over the winter to see how it works. Went with a 46t chainring and an 11-36t cassette. 12 speed would be better, but this is honestly fine (I just wish somebody made a nice 11-36 11 speed cassette). I've taken it on some pretty good climbs in our river hills, as well as on fast group rides and it's covered everything well.

New gravel bike has Rival AXS with the 10-44 XPLR cassette and it's even better (albeit with some bigger jumps in the cassette). And I like the Rival hoods and electronic shifting so much I haven't ridden my road bike since. Starting to sell off some stuff to fund the upgrade to AXS on my road bike.

 

[Sandwich]

I love AXS, I still do. The batteries dying was an oops but that can be resolved...you should lube/replace your cables occasionally, replace brake pads, replace your chain, etc. regularly and this is likely to become part of that maintenance.

Is your gravel bike 1x or do you have a front derailleur on there? I have small enough jumps in my 10-33 but that's a huge range.

 

[Sandwich]

You'd have to go 12 speed, but: https://www.sram.com/en/sram/road/collections/wider-gearing-for-force-etap-axs

 

[amishmatt]

Yeah, I'm pretty on top of battery charging, and I have a spare to carry for longer rides. I have spare shifter batteries in my ride kit I take every ride.

1x all the things, of course the gravel bike is 1x. These wheels/tires are the road mode.

 

[Sandwich]

THAT'S PRETTY

If I'm connecting the dots correctly on Strava, your rides are usually 30-40 miles. I'm typically a bit shorter but I haven't had an issue with the rechargeable battery even when it's red at the start (oops). They're so small that a spare is a good idea though. My issue was the 2032s in the shifters...I haven't replaced them since purchase which is 2.5 years ago, I think.

 

[amishmatt]

Thanks. The color really grew on me. Never would have picked it if there was a different option, but I love it now.

After work rides are usually 30ish miles. Weekends are for longer rides, but I haven't made a real long ride happen lately.

It's mostly rolling around here, too, so 1x works well. Even our "big" climbs aren't very long. I have to get farther north to find that.

 

[6thElement]

No way could I do 1x on my road bike, I have original Etap Red with a compact up front. I spin out the 50x11 regularly and I'm in the 34x28 for extended periods on climbs with the 34x32 reserved for occasional steeper pitches.

 

[ebarker9]

The Classified rear hub setup really solves so many of these issues, but also significant drawbacks (proprietary cassette, current lack of integration with AXS/Di2 shifters, cost, possibly efficiency). Still pretty intrigued. I hate front derailleurs.

 

[boostindoubles]

I am a big fan of the Shimano 1x12 XT drivetrain on my gravel bike. It's the same setup I run on my mtb's. Gravel bike has a 38t chainring for more pavement speed while the hardtail has a 32 or 34 and the squishy bike runs 30t for those big days in the mountains.

If I got into 100 mile + touring rides, I'd probably run 2x9 or 2x10 for chainline and range.

 

[Sandwich]

No way could I do 1x on my road bike, I have original Etap Red with a compact up front. I spin out the 50x11 regularly and I'm in the 34x28 for extended periods on climbs with the 34x32 reserved for occasional steeper pitches.

Aren't you regularly doing 5000ft vert or larger days in the saddle? That's a perfect example of where you wouldn't want 1x. 34x32 is pretty low though, git gud

The Classified rear hub setup really solves so many of these issues, but also significant drawbacks (proprietary cassette, current lack of integration with AXS/Di2 shifters, cost, possibly efficiency). Still pretty intrigued. I hate front derailleurs.

I fluctuate between "Ew" and "yay" on that system for those very reasons. I love the idea and expect it to work very well. On a road bike, hub weight doesn't matter (vs on a FS MTB) so it's not unreasonable to move it back there and off the chainset. That being said, even more proprietary cassette than SRAM and extreme expense keep me away. Plus, there's an efficiency loss at either pole of a 1x setup. Not a big deal in the 1x10, but it's tough in the 1x 33t, and that's where you probably need efficiency more than anything else. It certainly seems less efficient when riding, but I think it's a worthy tradeoff as not dealing with FD is so much more efficient.

 

[jonKranked]

updates: i got the cranks a while back, but never got around to installing them, because reasons. i'm now less than 2 weeks out from the ride and don't think that'd be enough time to get used to the jump up in chainring size before the ride. i do have enough time to swap them out and get a test ride in to confirm either way, and have enough time to swap back if i decide against it at this point.

update: still haven't installed them. been lazy. probably will after memorial day.

 

[jonKranked]

update 2: they have been installed and ridden.

 

[Sandwich]

Couple updates, since this seems to be an appropriate place.

Swapped my cranks on the 3T for a 170mm (shorter) set of Rotor 3d30s. They feel stiffer- it must be in my head but dang does it feel snappier. I'm also finally free of the cinch interface, but it may end up on a gravel bike somewhere. The 3T remains my favorite bike I've ever owned. It's not free of issues, but it's just a damned good ride and hauls ass on everything while still being pretty comfortable.

Also, I've been so happy with the 3T and it's shifting that I ended up converting my TT bike to 1x AXS. This was a very sandwich build with a campy freehub, 12s campy cassette, YBN chain, force AXS derailleur and AXS Blip buttons. These are completely wireless and super slick on a TT bike- no cables, no wires, and I can shift from the pursuits as well as the skis. Entire setup cost like $450 or so. Not quite the same range as the 10-33., but hopefully very useable and eliminates the constant front shifting on our rolling TT roads.