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Gee I just don't understand why illegals are frowned upon in the Southwest

ridetoofast

scarred, broken and drunk
Mar 31, 2002
2,095
5
crashing at a trail near you...
Crossers burying border in garbage
Despite cleanups, trash along smuggling routes piles up faster than ever
By Tony Davis
Arizona Daily Star
Tucson, Arizona | Published: 07.30.2006
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After three years of cleanups, the federal government has achieved no better than a 1 percent solution for the problem of trash left in Southern Arizona by illegal border-crossers.
Cleanup crews from various agencies, volunteer groups and the Tohono O'odham Nation hauled about 250,000 pounds of trash from thousands of acres of federal, state and private land across Southern Arizona in 2002 to 2005, says the U.S. Bureau of Land Management.
But that's only a fraction of the nearly 25 million pounds of trash thought to be out there.
Authorities estimate the 3.2 million-plus entrants caught by the Border Patrol dropped that much garbage in the Southern Arizona desert from July 1999 through June 2005. The figure assumes that each illegal entrant discards 8 pounds of trash, the weight of some abandoned backpacks found in the desert.
The trash is piling up faster than it can be cleaned up. Considering that the Border Patrol apprehended more than 577,000 entrants in 2004-05 alone, the BLM figures that those people left almost 4 million pounds of trash in that same year.
That's 16 times what was picked up in three years. And that doesn't include the unknown amounts of garbage left by border-crossers who don't get caught.
Diverse trash found all over
"We're keeping up with the trash only in certain locations, in areas that we've hit as many as three times," said Shela McFarlin, BLM's special assistant for international programs.
The trash includes water bottles, sweaters, jeans, razors, soap, medications, food, ropes, batteries, cell phones, radios, homemade weapons and human waste.
It has been found in large quantities as high as Miller Peak, towering more than 9,400 feet in the Huachuca Mountains, as well as in low desert such as Organ Pipe National Monument and Cabeza Prieta National Wildlife Refuge.
It's even started turning up in smaller amounts in hiking areas closer to Tucson, such as Josephine Saddle in the Santa Rita Mountains on the route to Mount Wrightson, says the Southern Arizona Hiking Club.
"In the Huachucas, you are almost wading through empty gallon water jugs," said Steve Singkofer, the Hiking Club's president. "There's literally thousands of water jugs, clothes, shoes. You could send 1,000 people out there and they could each pick up a dozen water jugs, and they couldn't get it all."
Cleanup not cheap, easy
While nobody has an exact cost estimate for removing all the garbage, it's clearly not cheap. But McFarlin agrees with several advocacy groups that without a tightening of controls on illegal immigration, a guest-worker program or other reform of federal border policy, the trash will just keep coming regardless of what's spent.
The financial details:
● In 2002, the U.S. estimated that removing all litter from lands just in Southeast Arizona — east of the Tohono Reservation — would cost about $4.5 million over five years. This count didn't include such trash hotbeds as Ironwood Forest National Monument, the Altar Valley, Organ Pipe and Cabeza Prieta.
● Since then, Congress appropriated about $3.4 million for a wide range of environmental remediation measures in all of Southern Arizona. This includes repairing roads, building fences and removing abandoned cars.
● The five-year tab is $62.9 million for all forms of environmental remediation for immigration-related damage across Southeast Arizona, including $23 million for the first year.
Waste unhealthy, unsightly
Most of the garbage is left at areas where entrants wait to be picked up by smugglers. The accumulation of disintegrating toilet paper, human feces and rotting food is a health and safety issue for residents of these areas and visitors to public lands, a new BLM report says.
"It's particularly serious in areas where there are livestock," said Robin Hoover, pastor of the First Christian Church in Tucson and president of Humane Borders, a group that puts water tanks in the desert for the entrants and coordinates monthly cleanups of Ironwood Monument and other sites.
"I've even found injectable drugs in the desert," he said. "It's rare when we find that kind of stuff, but there's tons of over-the-counter medication out there. If some cow comes along and eats a bunch of pills, that would be a real sick cow."
The trash also isn't good for wildlife, said Arizona Game and Fish spokesman Dana Yost. Birds and mammals can get tangled up in it or eat it, causing digestive problems, Yost said. It's not at all uncommon to find the trash in bears' stomachs, he said. Plastic bags, foil wrappers and certain foods are all problems.
Remote areas need more help
But clear inroads are being made into the trash problem, said BLM's McFarlin. Using the U.S. money, various local and federal agencies, the Tohono O'odham Tribe, the conservationist Malpais Borderlands Group and student youth corps remove trash from the most obvious and accessible areas, she said.
What needs tackling now are more remote areas such as wilderness, mountains and deserts far from major roads, she said. A couple of times, authorities have had to use helicopters or mules to haul stuff out of such areas.
This summer, with Border Patrol apprehensions of entrants down, the Tohono O'odham Tribe is seeing less trash on the ground than usual, said Gary Olson, the tribe's solid-waste administrator.
"I don't know whether they're hiding their trash or whether they are just not coming," Olson said.
But only six weeks ago, No More Deaths, an advocacy group that looks for injured, sick and lost entrants, came across a 10,000-square-foot area five miles west of Arivaca littered with hundreds and hundreds of backpacks.
"I've never seen anything that size. It's unbelievable," said Steve Johnston, who coordinates the group's camp near Arivaca.
Other activists from Derechos Humanos, Defenders of Wildlife and No More Deaths say the trash piles show what happens when the feds deliberately drive the entrants into the desert, by sealing the borders in cities.
"If you were going to cities, you wouldn't need to carry three days' worth of food," said Kat Rodriguez, a coordinator-organizer for Derechos.
But a Cochise County activist who has been photographing garbage and other signs of damage from illegal immigration for five years said she is appalled the federal government is spending tax dollars to pick this garbage up.
Illegal entrants should pick up the trash themselves, said Cindy Kolb, who helped found the group Civil Homeland Defense.
"Our mothers did not pay someone to pick up our trash," Kolb said. "We were taught to pick it up ourselves and to practice civic pride as law-abiding citizens."
● Contact reporter Tony Davis at 806-7746 or tdavis@azstarnet.com.

yet another among the litany of reasons why the hammer needs to come down on our dear neighbors from the south.
 

ridetoofast

scarred, broken and drunk
Mar 31, 2002
2,095
5
crashing at a trail near you...
a great thought, but then they'd tunnel underneath it, a collapse would occur, and a national consortium of human rights groups would sue on the precept of neglience on the US Gubbaments part or somethign to that effect
 

ridetoofast

scarred, broken and drunk
Mar 31, 2002
2,095
5
crashing at a trail near you...
what an insightful comment thank you so much. you think you know so much about me and my concerns don't you. why don't you set aside the arrogance that you typically display and make an adult remark about a legitimate concern regardless of which side of the fence you and i sit on...
 

valve bouncer

Master Dildoist
Feb 11, 2002
7,843
114
Japan
ridetoofast said:
what an insightful comment thank you so much. you think you know so much about me and my concerns don't you. why don't you set aside the arrogance that you typically display and make an adult remark about a legitimate concern regardless of which side of the fence you and i sit on...
Don't be disingenuous. You could care less about the garbage on the border. It's just another chance for you to rail on all the people you don't like, which is basically anyone who isn't a white American.
Anyway, I thought you weren't coming in the PAWNed forum anymore cos the red mist descends and you just go cwazy.:rolleyes:
 

ridetoofast

scarred, broken and drunk
Mar 31, 2002
2,095
5
crashing at a trail near you...
valve bouncer said:
Don't be disingenuous. You could care less about the garbage on the border. It's just another chance for you to rail on all the people you don't like, which is basically anyone who isn't a white American.
Anyway, I thought you weren't coming in the PAWNed forum anymore cos the red mist descends and you just go cwazy.:rolleyes:
again you think you know so much about me, make a slightly more elevated, adjective sprinkled, yet childish remark, and avoid a meaningful observation of a legitimate problem...

care to try again?
 

Bearmntpicnic

Monkey
Oct 23, 2005
838
0
charlottesville
just think of the trash as little gifts they are leaving for using our tax money to send their children to school.

then again they do accound for 25% of the agricultural work force in the united states, thats a bonus, the trash is the good stuff.
 

BurlyShirley

Rex Grossman Will Rise Again
Jul 4, 2002
19,180
17
TN
ridetoofast said:
again you think you know so much about me, make a slightly more elevated, adjective sprinkled, yet childish remark, and avoid a meaningful observation of a legitimate problem...

care to try again?
don't be a jackass. illegal immigrant littering in the desert southwest is probably the least significant news item Ive seen posted here in a while. While its true that littering is bad, it's bad no matter who does it and where, and it goes on everywhere, and on a much larger scale than a few border jumpers could ever hope to achieve.
 

valve bouncer

Master Dildoist
Feb 11, 2002
7,843
114
Japan
ridetoofast said:
again you think you know so much about me, make a slightly more elevated, adjective sprinkled, yet childish remark, and avoid a meaningful observation of a legitimate problem...

care to try again?
Well the only thing I know about you is what you write and on this forum it's mostly anti-immigrant, anti-black, anti-Muslim hate filled rants. And now you're trying to convince you actually care about rubbish on the border. Maybe you should go down there and pick up some rubbish. After you've finished that you might wanna go help some rivers polluted by big business and then work on helping reduce the pollution from cars and factories. I think though you'd just like to hate on people some more.
 

N8 v2.0

Not the sharpest tool in the shed
Oct 18, 2002
11,003
149
The Cleft of Venus
valve bouncer said:
Well the only thing I know about you is what you write and on this forum it's mostly anti-immigrant, anti-black, anti-Muslim hate filled rants. And now you're trying to convince you actually care about rubbish on the border. Maybe you should go down there and pick up some rubbish. After you've finished that you might wanna go help some rivers polluted by big business and then work on helping reduce the pollution from cars and factories. I think though you'd just like to hate on people some more.

:yawn:
 

Ciaran

Fear my banana
Apr 5, 2004
9,841
19
So Cal
valve bouncer said:
Well the only thing I know about you is what you write and on this forum it's mostly anti-immigrant, anti-black, anti-Muslim hate filled rants. And now you're trying to convince you actually care about rubbish on the border. Maybe you should go down there and pick up some rubbish. After you've finished that you might wanna go help some rivers polluted by big business and then work on helping reduce the pollution from cars and factories. I think though you'd just like to hate on people some more.
Don't waste your energy, man.
 

blue

boob hater
Jan 24, 2004
10,160
2
california
Bearmntpicnic said:
just think of the trash as little gifts they are leaving for using our tax money to send their children to school.
And theirs.

I'd really like to know how people got it in their heads that illegal immigrants don't pay taxes.
 

erikkellison

Monkey
Jan 28, 2004
918
0
Denver, CO
Not to start anything, but more to simply play with language, but I'd like to know how people can view illegal immigrants in the US as an acceptable thing. There was even a rally supporting it in my town a while back.
I would then like to respond to myself by saying that I too am illegal, every time I speed.
My response to my response is:
But then again, I get ticketed when I am caught speeding, and forced to pay money for breaking the law. When Illegal Immigrants are caught, they only cost money.
 

noname

Monkey
Feb 19, 2006
544
0
outer limits
blue said:
And theirs.

I'd really like to know how people got it in their heads that illegal immigrants don't pay taxes.
It's something we refer to as an under the table payout. Basically day laborers get picked up for work and payed cash at the end of the day, not all to be sure, but for those who are employed in that manner no taxes are being paid on their behalf.
 

DirtyDog

Gang probed by the Golden Banana
Aug 2, 2005
6,598
0
ridetoofast said:
what an insightful comment thank you so much. you think you know so much about me and my concerns don't you. why don't you set aside the arrogance that you typically display and make an adult remark about a legitimate concern regardless of which side of the fence you and i sit on...
Actually, it was right on the money. "Frothers" LOL, that's my word of the day :rofl:
 

ALEXIS_DH

Tirelessly Awesome
Jan 30, 2003
6,260
881
Lima, Peru, Peru
noname said:
It's something we refer to as an under the table payout. Basically day laborers get picked up for work and payed cash at the end of the day, not all to be sure, but for those who are employed in that manner no taxes are being paid on their behalf.
i wonder how many american citizens work like that. and how does that % on the legal population compares to the % among the illegal population.. and if the difference is significant with respect to the whole illegal population....

i suspect it cant be that bad... since employer paying cash a mexican worker knows he is risking way more than for paying cash an american.
on top of the regular tax-evasion issues, he could get a hell of a fine and legal consequences.
 
ALEXIS_DH said:
i suspect it cant be that bad... since employer paying cash a mexican worker knows he is risking way more than for paying cash an american.
on top of the regular tax-evasion issues, he could get a hell of a fine and legal consequences.
FYI
Not really.
Literally, nothing happens.
On paper it would be an effective deterrent but it is a tool not used.
 

noname

Monkey
Feb 19, 2006
544
0
outer limits
ALEXIS_DH said:
i wonder how many american citizens work like that. and how does that % on the legal population compares to the % among the illegal population.. and if the difference is significant with respect to the whole illegal population....

i suspect it cant be that bad... since employer paying cash a mexican worker knows he is risking way more than for paying cash an american.
on top of the regular tax-evasion issues, he could get a hell of a fine and legal consequences.
the consequences for paying an american under the table tend to be higher in that it is more likely to be noticed.
American workers usually already have some sort of tax payment history with IRS, then suddenly your paying off debts and living well beyond your established means..........
As far as paying cash to an illegal having greater ramifications, that really is far more dependant upon wether or not the laws are actually enforced and to what degree. Many agricultural industries lobby to keep government from enforcing those regs by trying to have investigations into said actions halted. They tend to be successful more oft than not.
 

ALEXIS_DH

Tirelessly Awesome
Jan 30, 2003
6,260
881
Lima, Peru, Peru
LOOnatic said:
FYI
Not really.
Literally, nothing happens.
On paper it would be an effective deterrent but it is a tool not used.
you have to wonder that % of the illegals work cash-under-the-table.

plus the fact those under the table jobs pay virtually nothing, factor in the tax rebate they´d get if it they "paid taxes" and substract it from the unpaid taxes..... plus an important % (most likely the majority) of illegals working with fake papers paying taxes and not claiming refunds..
its more likely than not that, as a whole, illegal immigrants pay a higher % of their income in taxes than finantially comparable americans.
 

LordOpie

MOTHER HEN
Oct 17, 2002
21,022
3
Denver
in addition to tax rebates, most of these people make so little money that they'd qualify for EIC (earned income credit) which I think gives them more money back from the govt. Any illegal who uses a fake employee ID (social security #) is actually losing a good deal of money into the system.

Sorry, tax arguement for illegals is moot.
 

Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
56,415
22,507
Sleazattle
Illegals steal money out of the register when no one is looking equal to the exact value of sales tax. Fuggers have quick hands.
 

LordOpie

MOTHER HEN
Oct 17, 2002
21,022
3
Denver
Westy said:
Illegals steal money out of the register when no one is looking equal to the exact value of sales tax. Fuggers have quick hands.
and apparently, really good and quick with the math. Wait, mexican illegals or japanese illegals?
 

ALEXIS_DH

Tirelessly Awesome
Jan 30, 2003
6,260
881
Lima, Peru, Peru
LordOpie said:
and apparently, really good and quick with the math. Wait, mexican illegals or japanese illegals?
haha, money and math? c´mon, you know whats the stereotype that would perfectly fit the 2 legs of those pants....

:rofl:
 

LordOpie

MOTHER HEN
Oct 17, 2002
21,022
3
Denver
ALEXIS_DH said:
haha, money and math? c´mon, you know whats the stereotype that would perfectly fit the 2 legs of those pants....

:rofl:
approved.

EDIT: You must spread some love around before you give it again to Alex.
 

blue

boob hater
Jan 24, 2004
10,160
2
california
LordOpie said:
in addition to tax rebates, most of these people make so little money that they'd qualify for EIC (earned income credit) which I think gives them more money back from the govt. Any illegal who uses a fake employee ID (social security #) is actually losing a good deal of money into the system.

Sorry, tax arguement for illegals is moot.
Precisely. They aren't filing for tax returns (which, in most cases, they would get all back), and they aren't trying to qualify for EIC. Most of the illegals actually making livings aren't working a ****ty day-laborer job, they're working jobs where they're using fraudulent SSNs (meaning: THEY PAY TAXES).

If you're going to start arguing about being paid under the table as day laborers, better start going after the 14 year olds working odd lawnjobs for neighbors...they probably make just as much.
 

Tenchiro

Attention K Mart Shoppers
Jul 19, 2002
5,407
0
New England
I think you all are forgetting two important things.

1. They are brown skinned.
2. They talk different than us.

It's ok to hate them.
 

rooftest

Monkey
Jul 10, 2005
611
0
OC, CA
ridetoofast said:
● The five-year tab is $62.9 million for all forms of environmental remediation for immigration-related damage across Southeast Arizona, including $23 million for the first year.
Okay, are the illegals clearing wetlands, killing endangered species, and building Wal-Marts out there? How the f*ck can that much money be pissed away out there? (oh- that's right, it's the government.)
 

rockwool

Turbo Monkey
Apr 19, 2004
2,658
0
Filastin
Westy said:
Illegals steal money out of the register when no one is looking equal to the exact value of sales tax. Fuggers have quick hands.
True, and they destroy our houses too cus they rip the floors up and grow potatoes and onions indoors, creating moist-damages in buildings costing millions every year!