George Dubya Bush, you chickenhawk son of a bitch...

Slugman · Sep 8, 2004

Tenchiro said:
Funny that someone who was too chicksh*t to do his dutyr, is the same person that has no problem misleading a country and sending off others to die...

Republcan way - everyone else gets sacraficed so that they can have a better life

Toshi · Sep 8, 2004

i agree with narlus, who said in the other thread that events that happened 30 years ago aren't relevant now. this goes for bush and kerry. i wish they'd all stop sniping about cambodia, swift boats, national guard and cocaine when there are many REAL issues to discuss

Skookum · Sep 8, 2004

I'd rather tag team Bush's daughters than Kerry's horse face daughters.

N8 v2.0 · Sep 8, 2004

Tenchiro said:
Funny that someone who was too chicksh*t to do his dutyr, is the same person that has no problem misleading a country and sending off others to die...

Of course you do know that Former Texas Lt. Gov. Ben Barnes has changed his story more times than Keryy has flip-flopped on the War in Iraq.

Silver · Sep 8, 2004

It's just like many pet Republican issues.

They are against abortion, until their daughter gets knocked up by the Mexican gardener. Then they can't get Buffy to a clinic fast enough.

They support criminalizing substance use, until their kids decide to do it, and then it's a "family matter."

They are for war, until they have to go. Then they have "other priorities."

SebringMGB · Sep 8, 2004

Toshi said:
i agree with narlus, who said in the other thread that events that happened 30 years ago aren't relevant now. this goes for bush and kerry. I wish they'd all stop sniping about cambodia, swift boats, national guard and cocaine when there are many REAL issues to discuss

I dissagree... while I think wether they fought or not is irrelevant to their capability to "run a war". With Bush, the the hairs we are splitting is between a little combat training, or a little less, 30 years ago. kerry was a little more and a little experience. Neither are warriors in any sense. Which seems to be what alot of the American public wants, as they are pumping their military acheivments through the tv with the hot and cold water on full.

I do think it is relevant to how they deal with other things. Bush obviosly lied about his military record. Tried to pull the covers over that, why? and if he is willing to hide something as unconsequential, what else may he hide?

Also, seems he was a bit of a slacker. enlisted in the military, and did what slackers do (not diggin on slackers, I am one) participate just enough to slide through. Now, if you think this information has no relation to the fact he's taken more vacation time than any president in history..... you probably aren't a natural born slacker.

N8 v2.0 · Sep 8, 2004

WHO IS BEN BARNES?
A Deep-Pocketed Kerry Partisan Who Can't Keep His Stories Straight
______________________________________________

Barnes Under Oath

Under Oath, Barnes Testified He Had No Contact With Bush Family Concerning National Guard. "Ben Barnes, then the speaker of the Texas House, said in 1999 that Sidney Adger, a Houston businessman and longtime friend of the Bush family whose son also won a slot in the 147th, had asked him to help get Mr. Bush into the Guard. Mr. Barnes, who acknowledged a role only after he was questioned under oath, also said that he had spoken to the head of the Texas Air National Guard on Mr. Bush's behalf, but had no contact with anyone in the Bush family. And there is no direct evidence that Mr. Bush's family pulled strings to get him into the 147th. Mr. Bush is firmly on record denying it, as is the commander of the unit, and there is no paper trail showing any influence by the Bush family." (David Barstow, "In Haze Of Guard Records, A Bit Of Clarity," The New York Times, 2/15/04)

Barnes Said Reports He Helped Bush At His Father's Urging Were "False." "Former Lt. Gov. Ben Barnes denied a magazine report Thursday that he helped George W. Bush get a place in the Texas Air National Guard at the urging of Bush's father. Bush, the Republican presidential front-runner, has repeatedly denied that he received preferential treatment in being accepted into the Guard during the Vietnam War. 'I never spoke to Congressman Bush about his son,' Barnes said Thursday. 'The story is false.'" (Renae Merle, "Barnes Denies Report That He Helped Bush Into The National Guard," The Associated Press, 7/15/99)

In Fall Of 1999, Barnes Said Bush Family Never Asked To Get President Bush Into National Guard. "Mr. Bush has consistently said he never requested special treatment, though Ben Barnes, who was speaker of the Texas House in 1968, said in 1999 that he had been asked by a Houston businessman -- not by the Bush family -- to recommend Mr. Bush for a pilot's slot, and that he had done so." (David M. Halbfinger, "Three Decades Later, Vietnam Remains A Hot Issue," The New York Times, 8/29/04)

But Now, Barnes' Story "Subject To Change"

Today, Barnes Claims He Is "Ashamed" He Got President Bush Into Texas Air National Guard. "Former Texas House Speaker Ben Barnes said he is 'more ashamed at myself than I've ever been' because he helped President Bush and the sons of other wealthy families get into the Texas National Guard so they could avoid serving in Vietnam. 'I got a young man named George W. Bush into the National Guard ... and I'm not necessarily proud of that, but I did it,' Barnes, a Democrat, said in a video clip recorded May 27 before a group of John Kerry supporters in Austin. Barnes, who was House speaker when Bush entered the Guard, later became lieutenant governor." (Bobby Ross Jr., "Former Lawmaker Says He Got Bush Into The Texas Guard," The Associated Press, 8/28/04)

Yet, According To February 2004 New York Times Article, Barnes' Story "Was Subject To Change And There Were No Documents To Support His Claims." "Local reporters could coax one former Democratic state official into admitting, off the record, that he had interceded on Mr. Bush's behalf at the request of either a prominent Dallas businessman or George H. W. Bush, who was then a member of Congress. But the official's story -- the source was later revealed to be former Lt. Gov. Ben Barnes -- was subject to change and there were no documents to support his claims." (Mimi Swartz, "In Search Of The President's Missing Years," The New York Times, 2/27/04)

Barnes Is Kerry Fundraiser And Advisor

Ben Barnes Is Kerry Campaign Vice-Chair, Raising Over $100,000 For Campaign. (Kerry For President Website, www.johnkerry.com/fec/, Accessed 9/4/04)

Changleen · Sep 8, 2004

yawn...

N8 v2.0 · Sep 8, 2004

Changleen said:
yawn...

Time for you to go back to liberal dreamland?

Changleen · Sep 8, 2004

No, just tired of your crap...

N8 v2.0 · Sep 8, 2004

Changleen said:
No, just tired of your crap...

Cool.

:dancing: :dancing: :dancing:

zod · Sep 9, 2004

Too bad you can't trust Democratic sources, like CBS

http://www.cnsnews.com//ViewPolitics.asp?Page=\Politics\archive\200409\POL20040909d.html

http://www.washingtondispatch.com/spectrum/archives/000563.html

zod · Sep 9, 2004

Nice Typewriter, does it do Times New Roman and superscript too????

zod · Sep 9, 2004

not a very neutral news source but here's more....

http://worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=40376

Drudge is all over this as well.

Also I just got done watching CBS Evening News and they didn't touch this with a 10-foot pole, kind of weird if they stand behind it??

N8 v2.0 · Sep 9, 2004

zod said:
not a very neutral news source but here's more....

http://worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=40376

Drudge is all over this as well.

Also I just got done watching CBS Evening News and they didn't touch this with a 10-foot pole, kind of weird if they stand behind it??

CBS is Rather biased against Pres. Bush and conservatives.

zod · Sep 9, 2004

You misread me N8, what I am saying is that last night on CBS on 60 Minutes they leaked this letter........now today they tell the press they stand behind the authenticty of it.....YET on the Evening News they don't even mention the letter. If they stand behind the letter then why didn't they mention it???? Maybe CBS knew it was fake the whole time, maybe they even created it, wouldn't that be a mess!

zod · Sep 10, 2004

tsk tsk tsk, CBS jumped the gun to put out an anti-Bush story......... (so much for being a reliable news source)

http://www.drudgereport.com/cbsd.htm

N8 v2.0 · Sep 10, 2004

Problems for CBS:

1. The Texas Lt. Governor who said he got Bush into the TxANG was not the Lt. Governor at the time Bush joined the TxANG.

2. Whoever told the Boston Globe that Bush did not report to a Mass. Guard unit when he went to the Harvard Business School has recanted his story.

3. CBS memos are now all but totally discredited. The only issue remaining about CBS's use of the fraudulent documents is whether CBS was duped or was a willing co-conspirator.

From ABC News:
These documents do not appear to have been the result of technology that was available in 1972 and 1973," said Bill Flynn, one of country's top authorities on document authentication. "The cumulative evidence that's available indicates that these documents were produced on a computer, not a typewriter:"

Among the points Flynn and other experts noted:

The memos were written using a proportional typeface, where letters take up variable space according to their size, rather than fixed-pitch typeface used on typewriters, where each letter is allotted the same space. Proportional typefaces are available only on computers or on very high-end typewriters that were unlikely to be used by the National Guard.

The memos include superscript, i.e. the "th" in "187th" appears above the line in a smaller font. Superscript was not available on typewriters.

The memos included "curly" apostrophes rather than straight apostrophes found on typewriters.

The font used in the memos is Times Roman, which was in use for printing but not in typewriters. The Haas Atlas the bible of fonts does not list Times Roman as an available font for typewriters.

The vertical spacing used in the memos, measured at 13 points, was not available in typewriters, and only became possible with the advent of computers.

CBS has been OWN3D!

zod · Sep 10, 2004

CBS will try to protect the orgin of the letter (especially if they fabricated it). I will be interested to see who is guilty, CBS, the Kerry Campaign, or simply the Texans for Truth. I imagine it'll be the later that will be guilty...............meaning they will be 100% discredited as a reliable body. This is why 527 groups should NOT be allowed, period.
If it turns up someone in Kerry's group is responsible for this (which I highly doubt and hope not to be true b/c it'll put a REAL bad front on US politics in general) then this will be the nail in Kerry's coffin.....as if he is not doing bad enough right now as it is.

Hawkeye · Sep 10, 2004

Toshi said:
i agree with narlus, who said in the other thread that events that happened 30 years ago aren't relevant now. this goes for bush and kerry. i wish they'd all stop sniping about cambodia, swift boats, national guard and cocaine when there are many REAL issues to discuss

While you are right about this stuff being 30 years ago. Kerry brought his military service into the ring. Bush said in his first campagin that he did stupid things as a younger man but has since changed.

Kerry actions after the war were far from hero like in the eyes of many vets. Selling out your former soliders for political gain was what he did then and has never apoligized for it. Kerry was viewed as a hero in Veitnam after his tour was over because of his anti war stance. Tapes of him testifing to congress were even used by the vietnmese to touture our POW's.

If Kerry didn't want his 4 months of service in Vietnam to gain the attention it is getting now he should have never brought his service into the campaign. Now he can't hide from it, backpeddling is what he needs to do.

But one question I have about this service is how did he recieve more medals in 4 months of service than any other soldier? all while under the close view of video cameras and photographers? How many Vets do you know that have more than 4 pictures of them in the war? seems a little "Manchurian" to me.

Hawkeye · Sep 10, 2004

Tenchiro said:
Sounds like CBS got own3d the same way America got own3d by Bush when he was using fake documents to drum up sopport for the war against Iraq...

There is no question that Iraq had chemical weapons as they used them on their own people. I don't think it is a strech to think they still had them, or had the means to build them.

They also had the means and were trying to aquire nuclear power.

Not to mention that the abu garb prison crap forced the discovery of 2 batteries of Sarin gas to the back page of the paper for one day.

Start reading the whole paper not just the Liberal pages of it.

Silver · Sep 10, 2004

Hawkeye said:
There is no question that Iraq had chemical weapons as they used them on their own people. I don't think it is a strech to think they still had them, or had the means to build them.

They also had the means and were trying to aquire nuclear power.

Not to mention that the abu garb prison crap forced the discovery of 2 batteries of Sarin gas to the back page of the paper for one day.

Start reading the whole paper not just the Liberal pages of it.

Of course Saddam had chemical weapons...we have the receipt hanging around the Pentagon somewhere...

You know, after we invaded on the pretenses that WMD's were hanging from every Iraqi tree, I expect a bit more. Also, the fact that the Iraqis didn't use chemical weapons should say something, don't you think? It's not like Saddam had a lot to lose.

N8 v2.0 · Sep 10, 2004

Tenchiro said:
Sounds like CBS got own3d the same way America got own3d by Bush when he was using fake documents to drum up sopport for the war against Iraq...

Come on... prior to the Iraqi War everyone agreed that Iraq was working towrds or already had some wmd's.

Hawkeye · Sep 10, 2004

I thought they would find more too. I am no fan of this war, but after they found nothing what were they supposed to do just leave?

This whole thing has gone on to long, but at the onset I don't think it was all that bad.

We can't just pack up the troops and get out now, it's just too late for that. The country is well in trouble,because of us, and we have a duty to at least try and make it better. If we left some radical cleric would get into power and in 10 years this all would start over, again.

Both sides of the political fence are wrong on this issue and there is no good answer.

Silver · Sep 10, 2004

Hawkeye said:
I thought they would find more too. I am no fan of this war, but after they found nothing what were they supposed to do just leave?

This whole thing has gone on to long, but at the onset I don't think it was all that bad.

We can't just pack up the troops and get out now, it's just too late for that. The country is well in trouble,because of us, and we have a duty to at least try and make it better. If we left some radical cleric would get into power and in 10 years this all would start over, again.

Both sides of the political fence are wrong on this issue and there is no good answer.

Besides not invading in the first place because on the scale of threats Saddam was pretty low.

I guess you're right though, you break it, you buy it.

Hawkeye · Sep 10, 2004

N8 said:
Come on... prior to the Iraqi War everyone agreed that Iraq was working towrds or already had some wmd's.

Further, Iraq was days away from an operating nuclear weapons facility in June of 1981, when Israel took it out. Is it that hard to imagine that they would have gotten this type of deal running again in the next 22 years?

N8 v2.0 · Sep 10, 2004

Silver said:
_____________________

John Kerry's Shifting Positions On Iraq

In 2002, Kerry Called Those Who Would Leave Saddam Alone "Naive To The Point Of Grave Danger." "It would be naive to the point of grave danger not to believe that, left to his own devices, Saddam Hussein will provoke, misjudge, or stumble into a future, more dangerous confrontation with the civilized world." (Sen. John Kerry, Congressional Record, 10/9/02, p. S10171)

Kerry Voted For Use Of Force Resolution Against Iraq. Kerry and Edwards voted for the Congressional resolution authorizing the use of force against Iraq. (H. J. Res. 114, CQ Vote #237: Passed 77-23: R 48-1; D 29-21; I 0-1, 10/11/02, Kerry Voted Yea)

Kerry Voted Against The $87 Billion Supplemental Supporting Our Troops. (S. 1689, CQ Vote #400: Passed 87-12: R 50-0; D 37-11; I 0-1, 10/17/03, Kerry And Edwards Voted Nay)

After Voting For The War And Trailing Candidate Howard Dean In The Democrat Primaries, Kerry Said He Was An Anti-War Candidate. CHRIS MATTHEWS: "Are you one of the anti-war candidates?" KERRY: "I am -- Yes, in the sense that I don't believe the president took us to war as he should have, yes, absolutely." (MSNBC's "Hardball," 1/6/04)

In Response To President's Question About How He Would Have Voted If He Knew Then What He Knows Now, Kerry Confirmed That He Would Still Have Voted For Use Of Force Resolution. SEN. JOHN KERRY: "Yes, I would have voted for the authority. I believe it's the right authority for a president to have. But I would have used that authority as I have said throughout this campaign, effectively. I would have done this very differently from the way President Bush has." (CNN's "Inside Politics," 8/9/04)

Kerry: Iraq Is "The Wrong War In The Wrong Place At The Wrong Time." "Democratic presidential nominee John Kerry on Monday called the invasion of Iraq 'the wrong war in the wrong place at the wrong time' and said his goal was to withdraw U.S. troops in his first White House term." (Patricia Wilson, "Kerry on Iraq: Wrong War, Wrong Place, Wrong Time," Reuters, 9/6/04)

March 2003: Dean Said Iraq War Was "Wrong War At The Wrong Time." "It is our patriotic duty to say to the president, 'We wish our troops well. We hope they get home safely and soon, but Mr. President, we think this war is a mistake,' This is the wrong war at the wrong time." (Christopher Graff, "Howard Dean Says He Will Back Troops, But Not War Policies," The Associated Press, 3/17/03)

In First Dem Debate, Kerry Strongly Supported President's Action In Iraq. SEN. JOHN KERRY: "I said at the time I would have preferred if we had given diplomacy a greater opportunity, but I think it was the right decision to disarm Saddam Hussein, and when the President made the decision, I supported him, and I support the fact that we did disarm him." (ABC News, Democrat Presidential Candidate Debate, Columbia, SC, 5/3/03)

Kerry Has Attacked The President For Spending "$200 Billion And Counting" On Iraq. "'George W. Bush's wrong choices have led America in the wrong direction on Iraq and left America without the resources we need here at home,' the presidential candidate said. 'The cost of the president's go-it-alone policy in Iraq is now $200 billion and counting.'" (Mary Dalrymple, "Kerry Says Bush Broke Promises, Set Wrong Course In Iraq," The Associated Press, 9/8/04)

Just A Little Over A Year Ago, Kerry Told Tim Russert That "We Should Increase" Funding For The War In Iraq "By Whatever Number Of Billions Of Dollars It Takes To Win." MR. RUSSERT: "Do you believe that we should reduce funding that we are now providing for the operation in Iraq?" SEN. KERRY: "No. I think we should increase it." MR. RUSSERT: "Increase funding?" SEN. KERRY: "Yes." MR. RUSSERT: "By how much?" SEN. KERRY: "By whatever number of billions of dollars it takes to win. It is critical that the United States of America be successful in Iraq, Tim." (NBC's "Meet The Press," 8/31/03)

Silver · Sep 10, 2004

Where did that quote come from?

N8 v2.0 · Sep 10, 2004

Silver said:
Where did that quote come from?

All quotes are from your man, John Kerry....

Silver · Sep 10, 2004

So you're making **** up again? Nice.

The purported quote of mine is wildly inaccurate, by the way.

N8 v2.0 · Sep 10, 2004

Silver said:
So you're making **** up again? Nice.

The purported quote of mine is wildly inaccurate, by the way.

Which of JFKerry's quotes are you doubting the authenticity of?

I've cited the sources...

And I don't "make up stuff" cuz there is just too many real gems... sometimes, however, I like some Onion....

Silver · Sep 10, 2004

N8 said:
Which of JFKerry's quotes are you doubting the authenticity of?

I've cited the sources...

And I don't "make up stuff" cuz there is just too many real gems... sometimes, however, I like some Onion....

Actually, you appear to have totally made up a quote of mine, or did you not notice that?

N8 v2.0 · Sep 10, 2004

Silver said:
Actually, you appear to have totally made up a quote of mine, or did you not notice that?

Oh... a that quote of yours... well.. it is true. You are an ABB (anyone but bush-ite)...

:devil:

Silver · Sep 10, 2004

N8 said:
Oh... a that quote of yours... well.. it is true. You are an ABB (anyone but bush-ite)...

:devil:

Yes, I'm for anybody but Bush, but the quote you made up is still wildly inaccurate, in addition to the fact that I NEVER said that in this thread. I'd appreciate it if you wouldn't go through the effort of making up quotes of mine, or at least do a little factchecking to make sure that the false quotes are vaguely possible at least...

N8 v2.0 · Sep 10, 2004

Silver said:
Yes, I'm for anybody but Bush, but the quote you made up is still wildly inaccurate, in addition to the fact that I NEVER said that in this thread. I'd appreciate it if you wouldn't go through the effort of making up quotes of mine, or at least do a little factchecking to make sure that the false quotes are vaguely possible at least...

Checked Factcheck.org for Silver and came up null...

Are you a disgruntled Nadrairrrr-ite..???

Silver · Sep 10, 2004

N8 said:
Checked Factcheck.org for Silver and came up null...

Are you a disgruntled Nadrairrrr-ite..???

Nope, just wish you'd refrain from getting quotes the same place you get your ideas from...

George Dubya Bush, you chickenhawk son of a bitch...

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