[sanjuro]

I would like to work in the bike industry, but preferably in my other occupation, computers. Unfortunately, as a corporate slave, I only know Enterprise Unix administration. Even the major bike companies don't use petabyte disk arrays and 64 cpu servers.

Anyway, I figure PC admin is the way to go. For anyone who has gotten a MSCS, what is the timeframe to get certification. The TCP/IP and DHCP stuff would be a snap for me, but my PC admin skills are limited.

With home study, is 6 months or more like a year?

 

[Pau11y]

I think it's MCSE. Never heard of MSCS...is that one or several level down from MCSE? Anyway, if you know your TCP/DHCP and NT domain structure/rules, it won't take any time. The trickey part is the NT domain and active directory crap, can be really confusing w/ the permissions/inheritance, unlike Unix which is built in. You'll prob want Exchange and SQL admin under your belt too as most places like to use Outlook on winblows networks. The SQL is used by a lot of software vendors as the DB server (altho Oracle is up there too) and it'd help knowing how to tweak on that crap. I'd say you'd pick it up pretty quick, like 6 mos or so. I'm sure you've got plenty of hardware background playing w/ 64 cpu servers and arrays so that part of it shouldn't even be an issue.
Realize this tho, when you come down to Winblows networks, your main function will be hand holding end users who can't think too far beyond, "it don't work...". So, if you're not good on the ppl skillz (like me), I'd rethink this career move.

 

[sanjuro]

Whoops, I guess the first step to getting a MCSE is spelling it right...

 

[sanjuro]

I think it's MCSE. Never heard of MSCS...is that one or several level down from MCSE? Anyway, if you know your TCP/DHCP and NT domain structure/rules, it won't take any time. The trickey part is the NT domain and active directory crap, can be really confusing w/ the permissions/inheritance, unlike Unix which is built in. You'll prob want Exchange and SQL admin under your belt too as most places like to use Outlook on winblows networks. The SQL is used by a lot of software vendors as the DB server (altho Oracle is up there too) and it'd help knowing how to tweak on that crap. I'd say you'd pick it up pretty quick, like 6 mos or so. I'm sure you've got plenty of hardware background playing w/ 64 cpu servers and arrays so that part of it shouldn't even be an issue.
Realize this tho, when you come down to Winblows networks, your main function will be hand holding end users who can't think too far beyond, "it don't work...". So, if you're not good on the ppl skillz (like me), I'd rethink this career move.

Thanks for the advice. I am very good with people, although I rather be selling bikes than explaining how the Control key works...

 

[binary visions]

The SQL is used by a lot of software vendors as the DB server (altho Oracle is up there too)

Just FYI, Oracle is a(n) SQL (dammit, I hate that: it's "a sequal", or "an S.Q.L.") database, so a(n) SQL background will be useful there, too.

There's a pretty complex forms environment to go along with it, which requires quite a bit of patience and time to learn, but I just thought I'd mention it.

 

[Pau11y]

Just FYI, Oracle is a(n) SQL (dammit, I hate that: it's "a sequal", or "an S.Q.L.") database, so a(n) SQL background will be useful there, too.

There's a pretty complex forms environment to go along with it, which requires quite a bit of patience and time to learn, but I just thought I'd mention it.

Sorry, poor wording on my part. I meant tweaking on MS SQL Server. I'm not sure if you'll ever need to know how to mess w/ the actual DB as most vendors prefer you don't (at least in my experience). Plus I'm not sure if a MCSE cert will get into DB admin that deep, but then again, I haven't been thru it myself. BV?

 

[gigapower]

Funny thing is people go the other direction, from PC Admin to Enterprise Manager. I'm currently the senior infrastrucutre manager at my company, one step from being the boss and getting to sit on my ass all day, and I don't have an MSCE or any certifications. I actually have never approved the hiring of someone just on the fact that they have an MSCE. Matter in fact my PC Admin I hired because out of the thirty interviews for the position I did he was the only one who knew the difference between PCI-X and PCI-Express.

 

[binary visions]

I actually have never approved the hiring of someone just on the fact that they have an MSCE.

Well, while you may be one of the select few who looks past credentials to actual knowledge, many hiring managers do not have that option. Quite often, hiring requirements are passed down from further up the ladder or come as part of a job requirement that was determined previously. Not to mention, as a manager, people often don't have time to be quite as up on the technical aspects and do not have the knowledge to properly test someone. It's not right, but sometimes you have to look at the credentials and assume that if someone has the education, they have the knowledge to back it up.

The MSCE can be a very valuable credential.

I don't know the answer to your question, Pau11y, I've got just about zip in the way of formal education (outside of high school and a dozen or so college credits). Wish I could find some hiring managers that think the way you do, gigapower!

 

[sanjuro]

Frankly, if moving ahead in my computer career was my goal, I would get a networking certification, like Brocade and Cisco.

But most bike companies are small outfits compared to the Fortune 500, so pc admin is a better fit.

 

[Pau11y]

Sanjuro, maybe it makes more economic (and practical) sense then to keep cycling as a hobby and keep rolling in Ent. Management as a career? I mean I know cycling is a love. But what I've found is that once you mix hobby w/ profession, just like a marriage it can be great when good and REALLY bad when it goes to sh!t.

Edit: I agree w/ BV. I have no degrees, no certs, and only experience from personal tweaking and some jobs. I've worked w/ some MCSEs and have found them lacking in geek/tweak-ness. They're good w/ what they've been trained in, but tend to NOT think outside of the "box" too much.

 

[Pau11y]

BTW, slight deraillment here, but how does the top network/IT guy compare salary-wise to say someone w/ an electrical engineer and/or computer science degree. How's about something like an applied or theoretical physics graduate (MS) degree, say...in conjunction w/ the two degrees above?
I know it's dependent upon who picks you up and what you're working on, but do they compare or are they not even close in a general sense?

 

[binary visions]

Do you mean "top" like management, or do you mean "top" in a technical sense, i.e. they're good at what they do?

 

[sanjuro]

BTW, slight deraillment here, but how does the top network/IT guy compare salary-wise to say someone w/ an electrical engineer and/or computer science degree. How's about something like an applied or theoretical physics graduate (MS) degree, say...in conjunction w/ the two degrees above?
I know it's dependent upon who picks you up and what you're working on, but do they compare or are they not even close in a general sense?

Well, this is an area I am familiar with.

With a science graduate degree, you are not always in the fast track for higher salaries. An academic path, or a dead-end profession can slow you down.

Computers are a funny industry. I have seen some relatively young guys or much older ones pull in the dollars.

Ultimately, management is the key. Otherwise you are capped somewhere near the 100k mark.

 

[Pau11y]

I know a lot of you aren't too keen on this, but doesn't a higher level science degree, specifically in computers and/or physics funnel you into a gooberment paycheck, especially coming out of a school where Lockheed Martin recruits HEAVILY from (I know Lockheed Martin isn't REALLY the gooberment, but they're pretty much join'd at the hip)? They're generally not the hottest ticket on the face of the earth, but you eventually (hopefully) get to work on some pretty damn amazing stuff. The funny thing is, I think the physics (String Theory) I want to play w/ is currently ONLY in the academic arena, w/ no foreseeable application in the near future.
And as for private sector, how's about a tech degree like CS or EE w/ a MBA? Doesn’t that kinda guide you towards management? And it prob. helps a bit already having a management title as I do now (even tho I manage nothing but PCs and small servers)...?

Off on another slight tangent; humor me a bit on this:
How’s about robotic/cybernetics, specifically the integration of hardware into biological systems? My figuring is that this is an emerging field currently prime for the rehabilitation of those who have lost or never had “normal” functions. I mean you’re seeing amputees w/ the carbon fiber leaf spring prosthetic running the 100 only 0.5 sec behind the fastest athletes and quadriplegics w/ Bluetooth implants controlling a pointer on a PC. Moral issues aside, I think within our life time there will be technology to “enhance” what we’re currently given at birth.
The only problem w/ this is not only will you need to have a degree like CS and/or EE for the hardware side, but to be knowledgeable in most facets you’ll also need a med degree to some extent. That’s a tall order for one person! But, just think of the geekdom you’d be playing in if you can pull it off! Johnny Pneumonic here I come
Ok, sorry about that...

 

[binary visions]

And as for private sector, how's about a tech degree like CS or EE w/ a MBA? Doesn’t that kinda guide you towards management?

Degrees are always good, of course, but often times experience will trump a degree. My dad, for instance, has a B.A. in "liberal arts" - hardly a high powered degree. However, he's been working in the computer industry so long, he was recently promoted to Director of North American Operations in the I.T. group of a major international medical testing company. Sanjuro is right, without going into management, you're capped into the 5-digit range, unless you're in a really specialized field like an Oracle DBA for a big company.

Hit the management area, though, and the sky's the limit.

How’s about robotic/cybernetics, specifically the integration of hardware into biological systems? <snip>

I've been talking to my step mom about this since she's a project manager for Boston Scientific. Her impression is that medical engineering is a huge field that's just beginning to explode. Apparently, the industry is at somewhat of a lack for people who have both engineering experience and a medical background. So, you're absolutely right - that's a great field to get into now. Requires lots of education, of course, but my impression after talking and some research is that someone with the proper education for it could basically write their own job description & paycheck at the moment.

 

[Pau11y]

I've been talking to my step mom about this since she's a project manager for Boston Scientific. Her impression is that medical engineering is a huge field that's just beginning to explode. Apparently, the industry is at somewhat of a lack for people who have both engineering experience and a medical background. So, you're absolutely right - that's a great field to get into now. Requires lots of education, of course, but my impression after talking and some research is that someone with the proper education for it could basically write their own job description & paycheck at the moment.

I'm totally on this page. My thinking is an undergrad in EE and/or CS concurrently doing a Pre-med. Then, instead of going all the way for a MD, just do a PA which is everything a MD does, minus the internship and that only puts it at 4 years past the undergrad. With this you should have the background/education to play in what your step mom is talking about. Wooo, I've gotta call my counselor and ask about Pre-med for School of Mines...

 

[gigapower]

Many companies are starting to open up to the idea of tech heads not going into management and they are starting to create "fellowship" positions for their future growth.

One of the reasons why I hire the way I do is I've seen way too many people get into this industry and fail because they just went to school and didn't learn anything that could be applied in the real world.