[freeridekid]

I might have asked this before but oh well.

Anyways, I have a diamondback xts moto that has 6.5 inches of rear travel and a pretty steep head angle. My friend said that if i got a shock with a smaller eye to eye length and a longer stroke that i could get more travel and a slacker head angle. Is that true and if so would it like totally screw up the wheelpath or what? Basically, is that a good idea or not?

(the suspension design is like the fsr only w/o the horst link i guess)

 

[blue]

Smaller i2i wouldn't slacken you ht angle...need a shock with a longer i2i to do that.

 

[Bicyclist]

Smaller i2i wouldn't slacken you ht angle...need a shock with a longer i2i to do that.

Wrong.

But I think you should put on a really long shock, preferably an Avy, then put on a Super Monster. Then you'll have a lot of travel and your angles will be the same because you will just be raising your bikes. Think of it like a monster truck. Bigger is better. Always.

 

[freeridekid]

i realize you're joking but for anybody w/ a serious response i don't want my bike any taller than it is (for some reason the head tube is ridiculously long)

 

[blue]

Wrong..

Stroke is "inside" the i2i, right? Would a longer stroke make it slacker?

I always thought it was the distance the shock moved inside the i2i.

 

[Bicyclist]

The i2i is the distance between the eyelets at the end of the shock. They determine your geometry if you want to mess with it. The stroke times the leverage ratio equals your travel.

So by going to a shorter i2i and longer stroke, you get a slacker and lower bike with more travel.

 

[blue]

The i2i is the distance between the eyelets at the end of the shock. They determine your geometry if you want to mess with it. The stroke times the leverage ratio equals your travel.

So by going to a shorter i2i and longer stroke, you get a slacker and lower bike with more travel.

Duh. Stupid me. Not thinking correctly (I blame the booze). Longer i2i makes the bike steeper. BUT, a longer stroke gives you more travel

So what's the disadvantage to running a long stroke shock on a bike designed around a shorter one?

 

[Bicyclist]

So what's the disadvantage to running a long stroke shock on a bike designed around a shorter one?

Well if the i2i is the same then you get more travel w/ the same geo. BUT if the i2i is longer then it's steeper and taller, which blows.

 

[blue]

So why don't shock manus make shocks with really long strokes?

 

[Transcend]

Smaller i2i wouldn't slacken you ht angle...need a shock with a longer i2i to do that.

Are you stupid? A shorter eye to eye will indeed slacken the head angle.

Running a longer stroke can cause frame interference more often than not. (ie tire or frame hitting frame)

 

[ChrisRobin]

So why don't shock manus make shocks with really long strokes?

They do! 3" is a pretty long stroke...but that requires a long eye to eye length to give enough room for the parts to move inside the shock.

For this bike mod we're talking about here, what's the eye to eye length, and what's the stroke? I'll tell you right now, I think you're going to find a shock that:

a) has a longer stroke and same eye to eye length which will keep your headtube steep but increase your travel just a little

b) has a shorter eye to eye length but same stroke which will lower your bike a bit but you keep your same 6.5" travel.

 

[blue]

Are you stupid?

Did I mention I'm ****faced? I'm sorry for offending you on your high horse.

 

[freeridekid]

They do! 3" is a pretty long stroke...but that requires a long eye to eye length to give enough room for the parts to move inside the shock.

For this bike mod we're talking about here, what's the eye to eye length, and what's the stroke? I'll tell you right now, I think you're going to find a shock that:

a) has a longer stroke and same eye to eye length which will keep your headtube steep but increase your travel just a little

b) has a shorter eye to eye length but same stroke which will lower your bike a bit but you keep your same 6.5" travel.

I figure'd that would be the answer. i don't know the i2i length but its pretty short and the stroke is 2.0

 

[ChrisRobin]

I figure'd that would be the answer. i don't know the i2i length but its pretty short and the stroke is 2.0

Well unbolt that thing and measure the eye to eye (center of the eyelet by the way) and tell us.

 

[WSU DH'er]

the chance that you could actually get a shorter eye-to-eye and longer stroke in the same shock are pretty slim, since the stroke is a large part of creating the eye-to-eye of the shock. There are a few where you can get varying eye-to-eyes with the SAME strock but not one with longer stroke. And as is stated above you would need to use a shorter eye-to-eye to slacken the head angle, or run a longer travel fork.

However this all being said, if you don't like the geometry/travel of your frame, that means its time to look for a new frame that will fit your needs.

 

[freeridekid]

its 8.0

 

[thejames]

manitou and probably others make a 7.5 inch i2i with a 2 inch stroke, could not find anything that length with a longer stroke. good luck

 

[Rik]

Get a 7.875x2.25 shock and run a bit more sag, that way you'll get both. Of course, this is providing the bike will work with longer stroke without having stuff bash in to other stuff.

 

[freeridekid]

ya i think the lower and slacker feel is probably more important to me than more travel (i only way 140lbs and i ride pretty smooth from bmx racing).

 

[ChrisRobin]

Avalanche: Avy DHS with 8.0 x 2.25 = 7.3" of travel.

Risse Racing (www.risseracing.com): Jupiter 5 with 8.0 x 2.5 = 8.1" travel

OR.

Risse Racing's Jupiter 5 with 7.75 x 2.375 = 7.7" travel

 

[Transcend]

Did I mention I'm ****faced? I'm sorry for offending you on your high horse.

What doing being a drunken idiot have to do with being stupid? They are mutually exclusive.

 

[freeridekid]

the chance that you could actually get a shorter eye-to-eye and longer stroke in the same shock are pretty slim, since the stroke is a large part of creating the eye-to-eye of the shock. There are a few where you can get varying eye-to-eyes with the SAME strock but not one with longer stroke. And as is stated above you would need to use a shorter eye-to-eye to slacken the head angle, or run a longer travel fork.

However this all being said, if you don't like the geometry/travel of your frame, that means its time to look for a new frame that will fit your needs.

i'd love a new frame but if i did that i would end up wanting a new fork, and new this and that and i don't have that much money, especially when i gotta worry about my hardtail too

 

[Bicyclist]

Get a 7.875x2.25 shock and run a bit more sag, that way you'll get both. Of course, this is providing the bike will work with longer stroke without having stuff bash in to other stuff.

That's the best option.

 

[dropmachine]

Heres an even better idea. Instead of trying to bastardize your bike into something that its not, sell it and buy what you really want.

Tada! no mess.

 

[ChrisRobin]

Heres an even better idea. Instead of trying to bastardize your bike into something that its not, sell it and buy what you really want.

But "bastardizing" something is half the fun of mountain biking.

 

[Bicyclist]

But "bastardizing" something is half the fun of mountain biking.

Damn straight. You should see some of the crap I ride.

 

[freeridekid]

Heres an even better idea. Instead of trying to bastardize your bike into something that its not, sell it and buy what you really want.

Tada! no mess.

i don't think i could get nearly enough from this bike to buy a new one

 

[Bicyclist]

i don't think i could get nearly enough from this bike to buy a new one

How about...


getting a job!

 

[PatBranch]

Heres an even better idea. Instead of trying to bastardize your bike into something that its not, sell it and buy what you really want.

Tada! no mess.

Putting a shorter shock isn't bastardizing it. Just setting it up better. Lot's of people do this.

 

[allsk8sno]

hey freeridekid, whats the stroke of your shock? that would play the biggest factor in all this really, if its already 2.25, then you couldn't really do too much,

also if you want to check it out the bastardized way,
remove your shock, measure a shorter shock(7.5" easy to get), then from there drop the bike down 2" -2.25" eye-to eye and see if its feasible. also for the slack feel, unwind your spring alittle and sit on your bike, jsut don't bounce...or you could drill some wood...but its not very accurate since your not really getting sag...

another thing, you might be able to mess with the link some, but i hesitate for you to do that, NO DRILLING! but you could flip it...but this would probably do the opposite of what you want.
just measure everything lots and double check it all

if that doesn't work you could see if mca896 wants to trade you for my old azonic eliminator, (i traded frames with him right after we rode together this summer)

 

[stgil888]

You're asking for more travel and slacker angles. It is very hard to do that just by swapping your rear shock. There is some variation between manufacturers, but typically rear shocks have the same stroke length for any given eye-to-eye length. If you want to have more travel, you need more stroke length. That would necessitate a longer rear shock, which would jack up the end of your bike and make all the angles steeper. Conceivably you could run more sag to compensate for this, but I doubt it would work well. You can get slacker angles by using less pre-load on your spring and sagging further, but then you'll have less travel when you want it. A fork with a longer axle-to-crown measurement will give you slacker angles without the need to reduce the eye-to-eye measurement of your rear shock. That might be something to look into. I'm not familiar with your bike, but it sounds like you might be looking for a dedicated DH sled if you're asking for more travel and slacker angles. I hope you find a solution. Keep us posted.

 

[taletotell]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned that slackening out your geometry could bust your head tube off. A 7.875x2.25 will probably do what you want since it is the same i2i and more travel, but you are risking you frame and life on it. That said, I would probably pull the shock and measure the i2i right before the wheel hits the frame or the frame collides with it's self. That difference is the max stroke length you an afford. If that is 2.25 then go for it. It is a small change so it will probably be fine.
You could measure the dropout to crown height of your fork and see if you can get more travel at the same height from another fork. I bet you could because that old marzocchi is probably pretty tall. I say get a cheap singlecrown domain 180 and you've got more travel and a newer fork that hasn't changed the geometry.

 

[slyfink]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned that slackening out your geometry could bust your head tube off. A 7.875x2.25 will probably do what you want since it is the same i2i and more travel, but you are risking you frame and life on it. That said, I would probably pull the shock and measure the i2i right before the wheel hits the frame or the frame collides with it's self. That difference is the max stroke length you an afford. If that is 2.25 then go for it. It is a small change so it will probably be fine.
You could measure the dropout to crown height of your fork and see if you can get more travel at the same height from another fork. I bet you could because that old marzocchi is probably pretty tall. I say get a cheap singlecrown domain 180 and you've got more travel and a newer fork that hasn't changed the geometry.

dude... it's a 5 year old thread!