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Ghetto tubeless conversion DIY: tips and tricks

bullcrew

3 Dude Approved
You're a bastard ,and I hate you.
Dont know why and kind of curious as to why you would go and post something like this... At no point do I lay claim to being the creator of it and being that bikes have been around over a hundred years and tube for most of it who knows who created it or fiddled in the garage and did it while tinkering around... IT DOES NOT MATTER...If you want to lay claim then say "I am the creator of ghetto" and be done with it, I was giving you crap because you kept chiming in throwing hints and I dont know it to be the case especially as long as bikes and tires have been around... Hell we sent monkies to the moon so Im sure someone back in the 60s probably already did it...

This tutorial is about 1 THING AND 1 THING only!!!!!!!!HELPING others that decide to do it have a easy and positive time and experience as well as give them visuals and tips so they can go out and ride and know its done right... Thats all and I will be adding pics for reference...

So for upsetting you I appologize that was not the intent, giving you crap was... :thumb:
 

SCARY

Not long enough
No,I get it.I guess sarcasm only flows one way on here.
I did come up with it in 2003.I highly doubt it was around since the 60's or it woulda come up.
My reason for even trying it was that Stans was retardly expensive when it first came out.
There are enough people that know the story.Im just having fun with it because I see it all over the the Internet and in magazines,and it's like "what the hell happened with this thing?!"
So ,not getting credit for it is kinda more fun that getting it.There's no way to get money for it ,and ,it's a rip off of Stans anyway.Its not like its a REAL invention anyway.I really just can't believe after this long ,people are still using it after all the advancements in UST stuff.Hell ,I went back to regular xc tubes ,anyway.
I was just playin,too.So....cheers.
 

bullcrew

3 Dude Approved
No,I get it.I guess sarcasm only flows one way on here.
I did come up with it in 2003.I highly doubt it was around since the 60's or it woulda come up.
My reason for even trying it was that Stans was retardly expensive when it first came out.
There are enough people that know the story.Im just having fun with it because I see it all over the the Internet and in magazines,and it's like "what the hell happened with this thing?!"
So ,not getting credit for it is kinda more fun that getting it.There's no way to get money for it ,and ,it's a rip off of Stans anyway.Its not like its a REAL invention anyway.I really just can't believe after this long ,people are still using it after all the advancements in UST stuff.Hell ,I went back to regular xc tubes ,anyway.
I was just playin,too.So....cheers.
No worries man glad we aren't on a negative path lol..... yeah I understand the doing it first thing and can appreciate your passion for it... so if I came off an wrong again my intent was to give you $hit not turn it into a negative thing...
:thumb:
 

EVIL JN

Monkey
Jul 24, 2009
491
24
Would a 24 tube work or will sit to losely, kind of a pita to find presta valved tubes that are smaller than 24.
 

bullcrew

3 Dude Approved
No I tried 24" tubes they were a bit too loose. Use a 20" its tighter and stays put in the tracks....
Schwalbe has both presta and schrader in threaded valve and LIGHT WEIGHT. Also the ones I listed have a smaller valve mould so it fits between narrower rims without interfering with the bead sealing near the valve.

as far as black tape yeah it works great.... I've used rim tape, stans tape, black tape hell I used scotch tape 3 years ago in a pinch and it worked fine... wouldn't recomend it lol id stick with black tape etc....
 
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Mar 14, 2008
65
0
thoughts on using electrical tape as rim tape?

I've used electrical tape instead of stans rim tape - one lap around the rim down the middle, with one lap for each side as well. Seals up very nicely. Doesn't have some of the bead sealing benefits of ghetto, but seems to work fine regardless.

Great write up BTW!
 

John P.

Turbo Monkey
Sep 24, 2001
1,170
0
Golden, CO
No,I get it.I guess sarcasm only flows one way on here.
I did come up with it in 2003.I highly doubt it was around since the 60's or it woulda come up.
My reason for even trying it was that Stans was retardly expensive when it first came out.
There are enough people that know the story.Im just having fun with it because I see it all over the the Internet and in magazines,and it's like "what the hell happened with this thing?!"
So ,not getting credit for it is kinda more fun that getting it.There's no way to get money for it ,and ,it's a rip off of Stans anyway.Its not like its a REAL invention anyway.I really just can't believe after this long ,people are still using it after all the advancements in UST stuff.Hell ,I went back to regular xc tubes ,anyway.
I was just playin,too.So....cheers.
I've no doubt that you came up with it on your own, but the idea pre-dates '03 by at least a couple of years. I first saw this at a Mount Snow National in '01 or '02. In fact, I think it was on Ian Collins's (or Nate Riffle's?) bike.

--JP
 

John P.

Turbo Monkey
Sep 24, 2001
1,170
0
Golden, CO
I don't know what you saw.I know the maxxis rim strips were out for a while at that time.
I saw a guy who made a tubeless system out of a cut BMX tube and some sealant. It was either 01 or 02, and we had our Evil/e13 pit setup in the lot at Mount Snow. I remember a bunch of us were suspicious of its validity, but then we went home and rigged it up ourselves.

Again, I have no doubt that you came up with your own system; I'm just saying the idea was around before that.

--JP
 

Acadian

Born Again Newbie
Sep 5, 2001
714
2
Blah Blah and Blah
I've been using ghetto tubeless for years and still do. Even with UST rims, I still use ghetto tubeless because it prevents my tires from burping.

I've ruined a few tires after not being careful while trimming the excess tube with straight blade. I then switched to these - they are awesome for trimming without worring of cutting your sidewall.

 

Ian Collins

Turbo Monkey
Oct 4, 2001
1,428
0
Pacific Beach, San Diego, CA
I've no doubt that you came up with it on your own, but the idea pre-dates '03 by at least a couple of years. I first saw this at a Mount Snow National in '01 or '02. In fact, I think it was on Ian Collins's (or Nate Riffle's?) bike.

--JP
you're right...both actually....summer/fall of 02 nate and i were running that setup....

michelins were always to UST/Nagesti spec so knowing what a tight, sharp bead they had, nate and i cut down 20" tubes and slapped them over mavic 321's and 521's (721/729 now) and had amazing results...part of that is because the channel for the bead had a sharp lock on those rims and from the tight bead on those tires....

we nearly sh:t ourselves when we first tried them....the difference in rolling weight coming off of maxxis mobster 2.7 tires with DH tubes was insane...bike lost 4 pounds and accelerated like MAD....even slowed down noticeably faster

thanks for the props JP, but nate and i owe it to matt timmerman...not sure if he tried it first or not, but i'm pretty sure it was his idea....

i miss those days
 
Mar 14, 2008
65
0
Dont know Id want to run without a strip in there, ive used black tape to seal holes to keep the strip from pushing out through them.
I know guys that have used gorilla tape as well but the main benefit of thi is the ability to glue the tire to the strip.


Bullcrew - ya, I take your point that the ghetto system avoids the problems with burping. However, my setup seems to be working just fine. Running flows with minions and spesh storm with no problem on Stans Flows, and also running single ply spesh tires on DT Swiss 1750s on my Nomad. I run about 28-30 psi and not much trouble so far. I'm a fairly heavy guy too, at 210#. Perhaps you guys are putting more punishment on the tire due to your speed... but I do race on occasion, and don't suck at it. I'm certainly no pro, but I ride Whistler quite a bit, often with guys who get the free gear.
 
This is an awesome writeup - thanks Bullcrew! Think I'm going to try it out to keep my tires from Burping while running lower pressure... I normally run dual ply / wire bead minion dhf's... Never had any trouble using stans with them before (amonia breaking down rubber???) I'm kinda curious - how do you guys think this Ghetto setup would work with a single ply folding kevlar bead tire for DH??? I'm assuming it may not work well??? I've rolled the folding minion tires right off the rim before under hard cornering.... but the idea of saving a few lbs over running DH tubes on my race bike sure does sound appealing :D
 
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bullcrew

3 Dude Approved
This is an awesome writeup - thanks Bullcrew! Think I'm going to try it out to keep my tires from Burping while running lower pressure... I normally run dual ply / wire bead minion dhf's... Never had any trouble using stans with them before (amonia breaking down rubber???) I'm kinda curious - how do you guys think this Ghetto setup would work with a single ply folding kevlar bead tire for DH??? I'm assuming it may not work well??? I've rolled the folding minion tires right off the rim before under hard cornering.... but the idea of saving a few lbs over running DH tubes on my race bike sure does sound appealing :D
When I run single plus I run 2.5 s usually. The sidewalls are a tad heavier and with it glued to the rim strip it helps prevent rolling off... I have rolled the 2.35s but then im pretty solid weight wise but the 2.5 not an issue so far.....
I cut light weight tube is around 53g so its considerably lighter 1 scoop inside and wet the bead both sides with it to help adhere it to the strip and its solid as well as light....so dh tires save considerable weight as well....
 

NWS

Chimp
Sep 19, 2010
66
0
I'm about to buy some Stan's tape, and it comes in 21mm and 25mm. I'll be using it on Transition Revolution 32s and Azonic Outlaws, so I'm guessing that the wider stuff would be better... but I hate to base my purchasing decisions on guesses. :)

Any suggestions?

Thanks!
 

bullcrew

3 Dude Approved
I'm about to buy some Stan's tape, and it comes in 21mm and 25mm. I'll be using it on Transition Revolution 32s and Azonic Outlaws, so I'm guessing that the wider stuff would be better... but I hate to base my purchasing decisions on guesses. :)

Any suggestions?

Thanks!
stans is a bit stiff to fill in without creasing in the channel of the rim. i have 2 rolls here and still opt for black tape. i used it and it worked but you may want to fill in the channel of the rim build it up a little with velox or light weight rim tape first. It creases a little.
 

TheSquid

Chimp
Dec 15, 2009
6
0
I was wondering if you can use a regular tire with a tubless wheelset, or is the rim that different that the bead won't set right?
 
Jun 12, 2008
25
0
chula vista, ca
When changing tires with the ghetto shteez, do you have to start all over with a new 20" inner tube because mounting the new tire would pull the tube inside making it very difficult to reseal?
 

bullcrew

3 Dude Approved
When changing tires with the ghetto shteez, do you have to start all over with a new 20" inner tube because mounting the new tire would pull the tube inside making it very difficult to reseal?
It can be a bit of a pain but if you cut it 1/8" on each side protruding it goes in pretty easy. I have reused several with success its when i slice them to the wall of the tire they are a bit harder.
 

frorider

Monkey
Jul 21, 2004
971
20
cali
stans is a bit stiff to fill in without creasing in the channel of the rim. i have 2 rolls here and still opt for black tape. i used it and it worked but you may want to fill in the channel of the rim build it up a little with velox or light weight rim tape first. It creases a little.
actually, in my 8+ years of running tubeless, i've found the stan's yellow tape to be the call for pretty much every rim. no filling of channel needed (unless it's a very deep channel, in which case building it up helps ensure quicker /easier inflation...but that's a separate topic).

the trick is to really stretch the tape hard (in the direction along the rim) as you work your way around the wheel. the areas in which the tape is properly stretched before coming in contact with the rim are therefore crease-free.
 

Red dog

Chimp
Nov 22, 2008
5
0
Hey Bullcrew, thinking about getting a new wheel set with ex823. Which muddy marys would you recommend for tubeless, downhill or freeride?
ill be running stans in either.
 

phycoref

Chimp
Oct 6, 2010
84
0
Canada
Hey Bullcrew, thinking about getting a new wheel set with ex823. Which muddy marys would you recommend for tubeless, downhill or freeride?
ill be running stans in either.
It depends on what the riding is like where you are. I run 2 ply in the rear and 1 ply up front where I normally ride, but if I head to a bigger mountain or a spot that is very rocky I will put a 2 ply up front. I run this ghetto tubeless, first season trying it and so far it has been great! If it is rough enough or you are very aggressive and think that you might split a side wall then go with the DH or if you or don't care about weight. But if you are being weight conscious and don't think you will blow a side wall give the single ply a try. However I am no expert and I am running HR rear and Minion up front, however friends ride MM's and thats how they run them.
 

lamp

Monkey
Mar 21, 2008
210
0
Does this type of setup tend to have problems rolling off the rim in corners? Seems like bead security is compromised, due to the tube in-between tire and rim.

Looking for setup tips / no-nos so I do not have any exciting nasty surprises on the trail. In particular, I will be mounting an old michelin to a dinged sun MTX. I am not too worried, because I ride like grandma, but should I be?
 

bullcrew

3 Dude Approved
Does this type of setup tend to have problems rolling off the rim in corners? Seems like bead security is compromised, due to the tube in-between tire and rim.

Looking for setup tips / no-nos so I do not have any exciting nasty surprises on the trail. In particular, I will be mounting an old michelin to a dinged sun MTX. I am not too worried, because I ride like grandma, but should I be?

Tubeless has been solid!!

I havent rolled one even with low low pressure yet. I have rolled stans strip set up though.
I have 8 dents and 2 cracks on my rear rim right now and still no flats as well as still slamming the poor rim through stuff. Its become a quest to see how much more it can take till it explodes. I will definently give credit to a 721 4 dents per side plenty of gashes and 2 cracks its still holding in there.
 

sbabuser

Turbo Monkey
Dec 22, 2004
1,113
55
Golden, CO
I'm about to go re-set up my new Spank Spike EVO with a dhf 2.5 without the tube. The fit is soo tight with the tube in there, I know I have at least a cut or two on the split tube from the tire levers. Of course I fkd up and didn't tape the rim, just used the spank rimstrip, so it loses air overnight. I've been running tubeless since '02 or '03, you'd think I would've known better... But then maybe if I give it a couple more rides, the stan's will find the holes and fill them.
Oh, and I do get some wet spots on my maxxis tires after running sealant in them, but I just figured it was the ethyl glycol finding it's way out of the tires. I've never had any issues with either Maxxis or WTB tires degrading before I wear them out, anyway.