[N8 v2.0]

What's new from Giant...

GIANT’S MAESTRO REAR SUSPENSION
MBA | November 23, 2004 | R. Cunningham

Giant USA went in search of a single rear suspension design to replace the three different types that it used last season. The goal was to find one suspension that could be configured to perform as well for a short-travel cross-country application as it could for a long-stroke gravity racer. After a series of sleepless nights on the computer and some real-world testing, Giant developed “Maestro”--a dual-link setup similar to the Santa Cruz VPP. Reportedly, negotiations with Santa Cruz required Giant to reconfigure the linkage in the latter stages of Giant’s design and pre-production process. Remarkably, Giant rebounded en-force with a revised linkage that could meet or match the performance of the best players on the dirt.

MEET MAESTRO
Giant’s Maestro rear suspension does not have a conventional swingarm pivot. Instead, a triangulated swingarm rocks on a two levers in much the same way as the rear derailleur swings on its parallelogram. Giant configured the upper and lower linkage geometry so that the rear axle moves in a near-vertical path—not in an arc, like a conventional swingarm would. Giant claims that its Maestro linkage design, combined with a specially tuned stable-platform shock, accelerates without bobbing and stops without locking out the suspension.

Read More

 

[Acadian]

you can also read more about the suspension design HERE

 

[binary visions]

you can also read more about the suspension design HERE

Does the Maestro axle path look anything like DW's?

 

[Silver]

I hope it isn't. The Trance superficially looks like a Hollowpoint rip off...

 

[Silver]

you can also read more about the suspension design HERE

 

[Echo]

I suppose Giant will do what Giant feels it needs to do to sell bikes, but they haven't ever innovated anything in my opinion.

edit: and I'm not the least bit surprised that Cunningham is kissing their asses for this ripoff.

 

[Acadian]

they haven't ever innovated anything in my opinion.

really??
http://www.bikebiz.co.uk/daily-news/article.php?id=4922
http://www.billingsgazette.com/index.php?id=1&display=rednews/2004/11/18/build/business/45-bike-tied.inc

 

[MMcG]

really??
http://www.bikebiz.co.uk/daily-news/article.php?id=4922
http://www.billingsgazette.com/index.php?id=1&display=rednews/2004/11/18/build/business/45-bike-tied.inc

Are Giant Manufacturing and Giant Bikes one and the same Acadian?

 

[Echo]

really??
http://www.bikebiz.co.uk/daily-news/article.php?id=4922
http://www.billingsgazette.com/index.php?id=1&display=rednews/2004/11/18/build/business/45-bike-tied.inc

I think I missed your point. Are those stories supposed to show Giant innovating something? Or are you agreeing with me?

 

[Acadian]

I think I missed your point. Are those stories supposed to show Giant innovating something? Or are you agreeing with me?

agreeing with you

 

[Acadian]

Are Giant Manufacturing and Giant Bikes one and the same Acadian?

maybe - maybe not! not sure really.

was just posting those to be a smart ass

 

[Damn True]

Just a chain tension dependant vpp.
Not anything super new.

 

[Broken_Spoke]

I still think the Faith is an ugly bike

 

[binary visions]

Just a chain tension dependant vpp.
Not anything super new.

Still pushing to get a real description of the suspension traits - wheel path, chain interaction...

Almost everything is a "virtual pivot point" of some type, and all suspension designs are "chain tension dependant" (what does that mean anyway? Everything has chain interactions, so the suspension design is dependant on chain tension in some way)...

Are you saying that it's a "VPP" as originally patented by Outland and developed by Santa Cruz (i.e. S-shaped axle path, chain tension keeping it in the middle of the travel, etc.)?

 

[Lexx D]

Are you saying that it's a "VPP" as originally patented by Outland and developed by Santa Cruz (i.e. S-shaped axle path, chain tension keeping it in the middle of the travel, etc.)?

No what he's saying is that it's not made by specialized so it sucks

 

[Damn True]

Are you saying that it's a "VPP" as originally patented by Outland and developed by Santa Cruz (i.e. S-shaped axle path, chain tension keeping it in the middle of the travel, etc.)?

Yup, pretty much. Minor tweak here and there to avoid patent funny biddness.

Lexx, please don't put words in my mouth.

 

[binary visions]

Yup, pretty much. Minor tweak here and there to avoid patent funny biddness.

Care to elaborate? Tweaks to the axle path - and if so, how much do they affect functionality.

Is this a "seat-of-the-pants" analysis (not discounting that, just curious), inside information, a few minutes spent with a CAD program to map it out...?

Interested to hear some factual information - there's a lot of random guesses that are being thrown around various boards right now.

 

[Lexx D]

Lexx, please don't put words in my mouth.

Ohhhhh, don't get all sensative on me, I used a smiley. Hooray for Sarcasm

 

[Wingnut]

but they haven't ever innovated anything in my opinion.QUOTE]


Well, one argument for Giant: (Quoted from th MBA article) Giant’s mother factory in Taiwan developed the hydro-formed “hockey stick” top and down tubes that many firms have copied this year, (end quote)

Oh, and their DH bike is still damn sexy!! :love:

Also, does the DW link look exactly the same? Or is the shock mounted to both swing-links on the DW? Just to satisfy my own curiosity..

 

[snowskilz]

Giant DW VPP F1 are all "similar" linkage designs they all use 2 links bolted to a solid rear triangle. I havent mapped out any of them in cad but you can see a few differences.

a. Giants is in front/on top the bottom bracket
b. dw's and VPP is right behind the BB
c. dw's and vpp have different upper linkages
d. the f1 has the shock mounted to the lower and the link is much longer

If you mapped these designs in Cad id bet most look very very close, maybe a mm difference here and there. From what i have read the f1 prolly has the most different axle path bc it is matched to the way the front fork moves

 

[Curb Hucker]

From what i have read the f1 prolly has the most different axle path bc it is matched to the way the front fork moves

Ill put that in my own words: From what i have ridden the f1 has the most different axle path bc it is matched to the way the front fork moves and makes everything feel so small

 

[powderboy]

I still think the Faith is an ugly bike

DITTO!!! It looks like the old Iron Horse SGS or, even better the Gary Fisher Joshua URT! It's an ugly steed.

The Reign looks pretty damn sweet if you ask me. I should have one as a test bike in the Spring, so I'll be sure to post my thoughts.

 

[gschuette]

I kind of like the look of the Faith. It looks better than a Demo 9 in my opinion. I really just wanted to see if my new avatar works.

 

[powderboy]

I kind of like the look of the Faith. It looks better than a Demo 9 in my opinion. I really just wanted to see if my new avatar works.

Looks are very personal, that's for sure. I just think that interrupted seat-tube bikes should be done away with. Bike manufacturers should consider the seat tube as immovable. IMHO... it's just a pain to have to use a telescoping post all the time.

The proof is in the pudding and I'm sure the Faith rides nice. I may be able to swing one of those for a test too...

 

[gschuette]

That is why I said "in my opinion". Because looks are a personal thing.

 

[TheInedibleHulk]

I suppose Giant will do what Giant feels it needs to do to sell bikes, but they haven't ever innovated anything in my opinion.

edit: and I'm not the least bit surprised that Cunningham is kissing their asses for this ripoff.

Ive never seen an MBA artcile that did anything but kiss ass, worst mag you can read.

 

[snowskilz]

Ive never seen an MBA artcile that did anything but kiss ass, worst mag you can read.

look back to the begining of the summer, they an a small article on the easton carbon seatpost and how the broke 2 of them. gave it one star