[BigMike]

I have heard MANY good things about the Giant DH team, but havent heard much about the Glory (besides the glory hole )

I was looking around at some of their new stuff, and the seem to be getting off to this Mistro suspention. Is it really that different?

How does the Glory differ from the DH team, and is it really that much better that they needed to stop making the DH team?

 

[TheInedibleHulk]

other than being a completely different suspension design??

The Dh team, which I owned, is a single pivot with a linkage, similar in concept to a turner. The only thing that differentiates it from a plain old single pivot is a linkage that drives the shock and effects the shock rate. The axle path on any bike like the dh team is a forward arc. The Glory suspension is one of several thinly disguised variations of what we used to call VPP. A solid rear triangle is connected to the frame via two swing links. On the glory both links swing upwards a la Sunday, as opposed to the V10 or M3 in which the top link swings forward. The effect of this is that the axle path can be anything from verticle to rearward to a S-shape depending on where they place the pivots. Pivot location is all that really differentiates VPP, Maestro, and DW link. I havent gotten on the glory yet but going from a dh team to a V10 there is a huge inherent difference in the suspension designs. The single pivot gives you a very connected feel to the rear wheel but doesnt work as well over bumps. The V10 eats anything you can throw at it but has a slightly more disconnected feel in the corners coming right off the giant. Once I got used to that, I would say the V10 performed better all around. Just had to learn to trust that the rear tire was doing its job. The Glory may not feel anything like the V10, thats just my impression of the two basic suspension types based on those two bikes. My other complaint with the giant was the geo. That thing is a sled, which wasnt bad for my first season racing dh but it was anything but quick in the corners.

Regardless of what it looks like the glory is probably the best deal in DH bikes right now, and if the faith is any indication it should ride very well. The design works and I cant imagine they botched the execution too badly.

 

[BigMike]

other than being a completely different suspension design??

Yeah, besides that

I never really knew much about the DH team, besides everyone I knew that rode one loved it.

I was just wondering if they think the glory is so great that they can just get rid of the DH team

 

[mobius]

Obviously they are going to get rid of the DH Team because the maestro suspension is their whole new thing that all bikes have. They got rid of the NRS, the ACs, so why not the dh team.

I love my DH Team and i'm a huge fan of singlepivots but it seems to me giant loves having one thing that will piss people off about the bikes. For the DH Team it was the pivots coming lose if u didn't loctite and always check them. For the glory, well its that ugly ass hole in the downtube Needless to say when i finally give up a single pivot i think i'll be on a Maestro/DW link style vpp instead of just a straight up VPP. I don't like the S moving wheelpath of v10s.

 

[SuspectDevice]

The DH team isn't really that great. I rode one for 2 seasons and maintianed one for an additonal season. The geometry on the bike kind of sucks. Weird toptube lengths, high bottom bracket. The linkages is a pain in the ass as well. The Faith and Glory are much simpler construction-wise than the old DH, and have better geometry.

 

[dhbuilder]

haven't ridden one.

but one of the veteran riders at windrock has just thrown down for one.
the parts kit that it comes with is the best thing going.
fox40 w/ fox dhx.
the frame is way more impressive in person than in photos. it looks bomb proof.
and it's the only bike around with it's own "codpiece."

 

[mobius]

The DH team isn't really that great. I rode one for 2 seasons and maintianed one for an additonal season. The geometry on the bike kind of sucks. Weird toptube lengths, high bottom bracket. The linkages is a pain in the ass as well. The Faith and Glory are much simpler construction-wise than the old DH, and have better geometry.

The GEO is kinda weird but you just have to get it set. The medium is shortish for me and the large is huge. I'm running a medium with a 70mm stem and it feels great. BB is a tad high but i lowered it by slamming my fork crowns down and its decent. The linkage i just locktited the hell out of it and its working great. It definetly has lots of **** going on for a single piv but ive been successful on it.

 

[BigMike]

I was looking at a Demo8, but somthing came up, and I might be looking at one of these babies for this season

 

[Full Trucker]

The Maestro suspension is supposed to be really nice, everyone I know that has ridden a Maestro bike likes it quite well, but I don't know anyone on the Glory yet.

One nice thing about that bike is the value... you could barely buy all the parts on that bike for the price you pay for the whole thing, right? So heck, it's like buying a build kit and getting a "free" frame... so if you don't like it, just get something else! hahahaha

 

[axlvid23]

I have actually owned both of these bikes...

The first major differences are obviously the geometry, the DH Team was far from nimble and racey, but it did its job. The Glory, however, since it is rando's personally spec'd race machine, has the standard super low, race geometry most of the pro's prefer (65deg HT, sub 14 BB, 45in WB, Ect). So naturally the thing is a lot quicker and more nimble than the team could ever be.

Surprisingly, the glory doesn't really feel anything like a VPP bike. The suspension design results in a super plus first few inches, followed by a super stiff and racey next few inches. The design is not affected at all by brake jack or pedal bob, unlike the DH Team, as many of you know, was severely hindered by brake jack(pedalling wasn't too bad on it, but not nearly as efficient as on the glory). I definitely have to say I prefer the feel of the glory over the DH, Giant succeeded in "creating" a suspension design that reacts appropriately to different size and shape hits. Overall I've been very impressed. My only complaint is that it comes with such a skinny handlebar (25 inches, WTF?) but that can be easily fixed

 

[spoke80]

Here's what I mentioned in the other Glory thread:

I've had mine for two weeks and all I can say is that its fast, stable, and floats through the rocks. I have ridden it for ~20 runs at Windrock here in Tennesse and I have not had anything harm the lower shock mount even after running our 1/2 mile rock garden. It pedals extremely well reminding me of a Trance with 2x the travel. Cornering is very quick and stable due to in part how the suspension squats into its travel as you push through turns. It handles large hits without a whimper and jumps like a champ. The bike is trouble free right out of the box except for the single-ply Kenda tires that it was speced with.


*wow 777 posts

 

[profro]

(65deg HT, sub 14 BB, 45in WB, Ect).

Surprisingly, the glory doesn't really feel anything like a VPP bike.

Stock, the BB was almost 14.75 on Spoke80's.

I thought it felt much like most VPP bikes. Not a bad thing.

 

[marlopez]

ive ridden both. the glory is spot on with geo and its super light. get the glory

 

[axlvid23]

Stock, the BB was almost 14.75 on Spoke80's.

I thought it felt much like most VPP bikes. Not a bad thing.

Really?? I'll measure it, I just took Giant's word that it was 13.9. I guess I'm comparing its feel to the V10 and M3....both feel bottomless and impossible for a lighter rider like me to detach from the ground. The Glory is easier to jump and move around on the trail I guess is what I'm saying. Thanks for the clarification though.

 

[axlvid23]

You're right, just measured it. 14.75 on the money. I guess I'll be running even more sag...

 

[zmtber]

is there or is there not a frame set that you can buy?

 

[spoke80]

is there or is there not a frame set that you can buy?

I'm sure there will be. Giant does a good job of selling framesets.

 

[SuspectDevice]

So, the 14.75" BB height pretty much makes the Glory worthless.

Especially when the Faith, is cheaper, avail as a frameset, uses the same rear end, has the same wheelpath and travel and has a BB that is an Inch lower when you swap the links...

 

[spoke80]

So, the 14.75" BB height pretty much makes the Glory worthless.

Especially when the Faith, is cheaper, avail as a frameset, uses the same rear end, has the same wheelpath and travel and has a BB that is an Inch lower when you swap the links...

Definately totally worthless for DH.

 

[BigMike]

So, the 14.75" BB height pretty much makes the Glory worthless.

Especially when the Faith, is cheaper, avail as a frameset, uses the same rear end, has the same wheelpath and travel and has a BB that is an Inch lower when you swap the links...

are you on crack?

 

[SuspectDevice]

No. I'm not on crack, but I am amused by marketing hype!

 

[mobius]

Suspect has a good point.

 

[dhbuilder]

No. I'm not on crack, but I am amused by marketing hype!

who was the marketing genious who sold you on the faith being a downhill bike ?
have you seen one of those ?
have you seen one of those next to a glory ?

 

[SuspectDevice]

who was the marketing genious who sold you on the faith being a downhill bike ?
have you seen one of those ?
have you seen one of those next to a glory ?

No marketing genious. Common sense. What the hell else do you do with a low, slack bike with 8" of travel that won the World Dh championships?

 

[dhbuilder]

ride it. and not disparage other sleds.

 

[bballe336]

who was the marketing genious who sold you on the faith being a downhill bike ?
have you seen one of those ?
have you seen one of those next to a glory ?

2 local riders have them, 1 being me. He has worked on both of our bikes and definitely knows a lot about making a bike ride well. The faith with flipped links has geometry that is almost the same as the glory but with an inch lower BB and it is very cheap. The faith is a very capable DH bike. Considering that it runs on the same basic platform as the glory and can have very similar geometry with flipped links I see no reason why the faith isn't a great DH bike.

 

[Red Bull]

No. I'm not on crack, but I am amused by marketing hype!

I concur. However the Faith's BB stock is around the same as the Glory so thats not really a very valid argument. But ive heard the glory rails.

 

[bballe336]

I concur. However the Faith's BB stock is around the same as the Glory so thats not really a very valid argument. But ive heard the glory rails.

Mine is about 14.3 stock.

 

[Red Bull]

Mine is about 14.3 stock.

Thats probubly because it comes with a 7" fork as opposed to 8"...

 

[BigMike]

Suspect has a good point.

That because the Glory has a 14.75 bb its worthless?

I don't think thats a valid point at all.......

 

[esr]

Faith vs Glory

I personl own a faith and have owned every Giant DH bike for the past 5 years I think now.

The faith is a freeride bike it rides like one lands like one and thats it. I have ridden the faith at the same places as my DH bike and you can without a question feel the diffrence from the old DH bike.

The faith doe not handle high speed rocks or ruts well it has a tendency to be a huge challenge to keep online.

Now compared to the glory I cant really say but the glory does have 9inches in the rear and im sure the suspension feel is more dh style as opposed to big hit hard landing feel of most freeride bike.

 

[bballe336]

Faith vs Glory

I personl own a faith and have owned every Giant DH bike for the past 5 years I think now.

The faith is a freeride bike it rides like one lands like one and thats it. I have ridden the faith at the same places as my DH bike and you can without a question feel the diffrence from the old DH bike.

The faith doe not handle high speed rocks or ruts well it has a tendency to be a huge challenge to keep online.

Now compared to the glory I cant really say but the glory does have 9inches in the rear and im sure the suspension feel is more dh style as opposed to big hit hard landing feel of most freeride bike.

They both run on the same suspension platform, and have the same rear ends. The way the bike "lands" is all about shock set up. I have found that the bike tracks as well as anything else I have ridden.

 

[sharkdh]

my friend raced the Faith in 05 and boy was he fast.
he's now thinking of ordering the Glory.
good golly miss molly.

 

[esr]

Im not saying the rear end is not the same, but the links the suspension geo is diffrent the stroke of the shock is diffrent.

The bike does not ride badly, but it does not ride like a full out race bike whether you build it as one or not.

Lets list the total of diffrences here:
-Suspension travel 1 Inch
-shock placement lower CG
-Shock travel longer stroker better small bump feel and tracking
-diffrent geometry in the actual links meaning they travel diffrent throught the stroke, diffrent suspension feel.

This is obviously in my opinion and I do understand you can flip the links and adjust the shock so it does mask the freeride characteristics of the bike, but why put all the bells and whistlers on a bike the was never intended to be a race bike.

When I built mine it was intended to be a short course DH bike but it just didnt cut it honestly.

PS the bike is fast just not a bike that was designed to be a race bike

 

[bballe336]

Im not saying the rear end is not the same, but the links the suspension geo is diffrent the stroke of the shock is diffrent.

The bike does not ride badly, but it does not ride like a full out race bike whether you build it as one or not.

Lets list the total of diffrences here:
-Suspension travel 1 Inch
-shock placement lower CG
-Shock travel longer stroker better small bump feel and tracking
-diffrent geometry in the actual links meaning they travel diffrent throught the stroke, diffrent suspension feel.

This is obviously in my opinion and I do understand you can flip the links and adjust the shock so it does mask the freeride characteristics of the bike, but why put all the bells and whistlers on a bike the was never intended to be a race bike.

When I built mine it was intended to be a short course DH bike but it just didnt cut it honestly.

PS the bike is fast just not a bike that was designed to be a race bike

I don't know how you can say it wasn't designed to be a race bike. The jr worlds were won on one. By flipping the links the geometry is almost the same. That means it will feel similar. And because they use the same rear triangle and suspension platform the basic suspension movement is the same. Also the difference in travel is a half inch.
The faith has a 3:1 shock ratio
The glory is 2.933:1.
You really won't feel a difference in small bump sensitivity if both shocks are properly tuned.

Just because your shock isn't properly set up does not in any way mean that it's not a bitchin' race bike with good geometry and a great suspension feel.

 

[SuspectDevice]

I can honestly say that a Faith is a much better DH bike than the old DH team frame. My 5" Splinter is a better DH bike than the old Dh Team, in that Riding the two bikes back to back I put down 3-4 second better times over a 2 minute track. Like the other thread that's going right now, geometry is key to a bike not sucking. Lower BB's and slacker Head angles are better.

You can clearly see here that the bottom link is exactly the same, and this is what determines the wheelpath. The top link is anchored in the same place and correct me if I'm wrong, but the leverage ratio looks as if is the same as well, just rotated for the different shock orientation. Also IIRC the Glory runs a 9x2.75, just like the Faith, and puts out the same 8" of travel.

The Faith has a longer top-tube for an equivalent size, which is a plus.

Once you flip the links the Faith is even 1/2 a degree slacker than the Glory. The glory exists in it's current form as an abortion, something they rushed to make after Specialized shut them down on th first design, that actualy WAS different than a Faith. The glory is a marketing exercise, plain and simple.

 

[BigMike]

the more I look at it, the more i'm diggin the glory

 

[mobius]

That because the Glory has a 14.75 bb its worthless?

I don't think thats a valid point at all.......

Especially when the Faith, is cheaper, avail as a frameset, uses the same rear end, has the same wheelpath and travel and has a BB that is an Inch lower when you swap the links...

This is what he said. And it was a good point.

 

[esr]

Sorry

scratch that last email this is opinion based I know for a fact the bikes suspension is diffrence just a fact

 

[spoke80]

I can honestly say that a Faith is a much better DH bike than the old DH team frame. My 5" Splinter is a better DH bike than the old Dh Team, in that Riding the two bikes back to back I put down 3-4 second better times over a 2 minute track. Like the other thread that's going right now, geometry is key to a bike not sucking. Lower BB's and slacker Head angles are better.

You can clearly see here that the bottom link is exactly the same, and this is what determines the wheelpath. The top link is anchored in the same place and correct me if I'm wrong, but the leverage ratio looks as if is the same as well, just rotated for the different shock orientation. Also IIRC the Glory runs a 9x2.75, just like the Faith, and puts out the same 8" of travel.

The Faith has a longer top-tube for an equivalent size, which is a plus.

Once you flip the links the Faith is even 1/2 a degree slacker than the Glory. The glory exists in it's current form as an abortion, something they rushed to make after Specialized shut them down on th first design, that actualy WAS different than a Faith. The glory is a marketing exercise, plain and simple.

If the Glory was a marketing exercise they did an excellent job especially since they are available. And would it be fair to say that any new design that has gone through a product development process could be considered a marketing excerise. I'm not in marketing but it seems to be the case. Oh, and what did the Glory look like before the abortion?