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Giant Faith - how does it not infringe on DW-link patents pending?

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thaflyinfatman

Turbo Monkey
Jul 20, 2002
1,577
0
Victoria
Looking at the Giant Faith linkage vs the DW link stuff, the linkage geometries are somewhat similar (yes Dave, I know you're going to jump in here kicking and screaming "THEY'RE NOT THE SAME, MINE SETS THE WORLD OFF ITS AXIS DUE TO ITS AWESOMENESS", I did say similar ;)). Does (or perhaps more accurately, "would") the Faith geometry infringe on dw-link patents (pending)? If not, why not?

Ok, I can see it coming, "we can't say anything at the moment because we like to keep secrets and make people not know stuff so that they poo their pantyhoses in anticipation, oh and there's the legal stuff too". Dammit!
 
T

thaflyinfatman

Turbo Monkey
Jul 20, 2002
1,577
0
Victoria
I heard dw-link was flexy and therefore the patents were different to what the Giants do.



I can't believe it. I'm hijacking my own thread, and nobody's even said anything useful yet.
 
Smelly

Smelly

Turbo Monkey
Jun 17, 2004
1,254
1
out yonder, round bout a hootinany
it doesn't for the same reasons that the dw link doesn't infringe on the vpp patent. what (DW says) makes his design special is the axle path. this means that all 3 of these designs, although appearing similar, work differently.
 
xy9ine

xy9ine

Turbo Monkey
Mar 22, 2004
2,940
353
vancouver eastside
so are the defining (patentable) differences between the various vpp-esque designs limited to the unique shape of the axle path? can someone explain (definitively) what these differences are?
 
D

dw

Wiffle Ball ninja
Sep 10, 2001
2,943
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MV
There will be plenty of information on this in the future. I will say however, that the Giant bikes, in my opinion, appear to be heavily influenced by dw-link. For a line of bikes with a suspension system that literally did not exist until late summer, and given the marketing push, which claims impossible things, it all looks quite suspicious. (Brand new prototypes seen at Whistler in July infringed on VPP patents apparently) I can't really comment further, Only time will tell the answer for you.
 
D

dw

Wiffle Ball ninja
Sep 10, 2001
2,943
0
MV
And yes fatman, based on analysis and rider feedback so far, the dw-link bikes kill it in pretty much every performance category over the poor copy attempts. :)
 
zedro

zedro

Turbo Monkey
Sep 14, 2001
4,144
1
at the end of the longest line
thaflyinfatman said:
...(yes Dave, I know you're going to jump in here kicking and screaming "THEY'RE NOT THE SAME, MINE SETS THE WORLD OFF ITS AXIS DUE TO ITS AWESOMENESS", I did say similar ;)). ....
Click to expand...
actually when a IH Sunday rode past the picnic tables, all the spoons suddenly bent in half....
 
D

dw

Wiffle Ball ninja
Sep 10, 2001
2,943
0
MV
whoa, sick!

you gotta get THAT on video!!!

Think of how sick that would be for dw-link.com. So awesome it bends soons in half...

heh
 
MikeD

MikeD

Leader and Demogogue of the Ridemonkey Satinists
Oct 26, 2001
11,737
1,820
chez moi
I heard that DW links have actually existed for centuries, and have been communicating with people via a string of musical notes and taking them for rides into space, keeping them young by travelling at light speed.

They apparently revealed themselves to Weagle in a pile of mashed potatoes one night...

MD
 
BigMike

BigMike

BrokenbikeMike
Jul 29, 2003
8,931
0
Montgomery county MD
thaflyinfatman said:
Ok, I can see it coming, "we can't say anything at the moment because we like to keep secrets and make people not know stuff so that they poo their pantyhoses in anticipation, oh and there's the legal stuff too". Dammit!
Click to expand...



dw said:
There will be plenty of information on this in the future. I will say however, that the Giant bikes, in my opinion, appear to be heavily influenced by dw-link. For a line of bikes with a suspension system that literally did not exist until late summer, and given the marketing push, which claims impossible things, it all looks quite suspicious. (Brand new prototypes seen at Whistler in July infringed on VPP patents apparently) I can't really comment further, Only time will tell the answer for you.
Click to expand...


:D
:think:
 
Sir_Crackien

Sir_Crackien

Turbo Monkey
Feb 7, 2004
2,051
0
alex. va. usa.
accaully from what i have been hearing from the giant rep. giant new suspension design has been on the talbe for quite some time. he didn't come out and say but he made us believe they have been working on it for like atleast 1 and a haft years, and he told use this back in june!
 
D

dw

Wiffle Ball ninja
Sep 10, 2001
2,943
0
MV
I personally saw the VPP infringing bike (first Faith prototype) at Whistler late this summer, and I also know that what your rep may or may not have alluded to is untrue. Either way, dw-link predates the giant by a long time. Its all good, no amount of marketing or money can change what is already done. Its all just a matter of time and patience. It just sucks for me personally to sit here idle and watch, but theres really no other choice.

Dave
 
T

thaflyinfatman

Turbo Monkey
Jul 20, 2002
1,577
0
Victoria
So we managed to find out who caused what and why Hitler didn't like the jews, but nobody (read: DAVE) has mentioned whether or not it infringes...
 
zedro

zedro

Turbo Monkey
Sep 14, 2001
4,144
1
at the end of the longest line
Sir_Crackien said:
accaully from what i have been hearing from the giant rep. giant new suspension design has been on the talbe for quite some time. he didn't come out and say but he made us believe they have been working on it for like atleast 1 and a haft years, and he told use this back in june!
Click to expand...
well yeah, prototypes just dont suddenly materialise
 
zedro

zedro

Turbo Monkey
Sep 14, 2001
4,144
1
at the end of the longest line
CreeP said:
er, you can't see the lower link on the IH, silly!
Not much of a comparaison now is that?
Click to expand...
1. look at the top link

2. i know where the lower link is

the Cortina DH8 'looks' closer to the DW-Link than this thing, of course no one would suggest that, given which one came first
:evil:

why do i get the feeling people want someone to copy the DWL, just to catch them?
 
T

thaflyinfatman

Turbo Monkey
Jul 20, 2002
1,577
0
Victoria
zedro said:
1. look at the top link

2. i know where the lower link is

the Cortina DH8 'looks' closer to the DW-Link than this thing, of course no one would suggest that, given which one came first
:evil:

why do i get the feeling people want someone to copy the DWL, just to catch them?
Click to expand...

The DH8 is really quite different IMO. However the Faith linkages look disturbingly similar to the (older?) Hollowpoints IMO. No doubt dw will explain that the giant linkage actually causes the bike to automatically ride fakie when you pedal, causing tectonic plate shifts and such should you try to bottom it out. It will also suffer so much brake jack that it will tear the shock in half by topping it out, etc etc.
 
T

thaflyinfatman

Turbo Monkey
Jul 20, 2002
1,577
0
Victoria
zedro said:
i keep asking, but no one freakin tells me....i think it is tho, its that way on the Hollowpoint.
Click to expand...
On the prototype sundays that sam and bryn were riding (well at least one generation of them) they WERE actuated at both ends by the links. The pics of the production ones make it look like the shock bolt is also the lower link fix bolt though...
 
R

Rik

Turbo Monkey
Nov 6, 2001
1,085
1
Sydney, Australia
thaflyinfatman said:
No doubt dw will explain that the giant linkage actually causes the bike to...
Click to expand...
Eh, no need to explain all that, as we all know, it's a Giant, so it'll crack before much else can happen :eviltongu
 
oly

oly

skin cooker for the hive
Dec 6, 2001
5,118
6
Witness relocation housing
dw said:
It just sucks for me personally to sit here idle and watch, but theres really no other choice.

Dave
Click to expand...
I bet your tounge hurts from having to bite it all the time....... :)

Just hope you dont have Lionel Hutz working for you........
 
K

klunky

Turbo Monkey
Oct 17, 2003
1,078
6
Scotland
didnt Giant rip off the horst link a few years back with the NRS so they couldnt sell it in the U.S. for some time?
 
zedro

zedro

Turbo Monkey
Sep 14, 2001
4,144
1
at the end of the longest line
klunky said:
didnt Giant rip off the horst link a few years back with the NRS so they couldnt sell it in the U.S. for some time?
Click to expand...
thats why they built the 1999 DSx (ATX9xx), to fill that market in 2000. The NRS ended up being sold, so that model design became a one year wonder. Lucky me i bought one...
 
ohio

ohio

The Fresno Kid
Nov 26, 2001
6,649
26
SF, CA
I do remember seeing a pic of an ATX-DH prototype with a highly coupled triangulated rear end instead of the walking beam that went to production, from the late 90s...

On the other hand, I still think it's a pretty thinly veiled copy.
 
Bldr_DH

Bldr_DH

Monkey
Aug 8, 2003
762
0
NO BO CO
WheelieMan said:
Well the shock is actuated at both ends on the sunday correct? In other words, no shock fix pivot?
Click to expand...
Ooh, ok, I didn't pick that up, so as to my previous comment, never mind... my mistake.
 
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