[amydalayna]

For some reason, I got worked up with all of the negative comments in the Fontana results posting in the downhill forum. I don't think anything positive comes from comparing the guys times to the girls.

But one thing it got me thinking about is what could improve times.
I think one thing would be to have more girls out there. Having more girls in attendance at DH races would bring about more competition. I push myself hard when I race, but i MIGHT push myself even harder if there was a consistent showing at events. Most of the time I know that I'll make top 3 because there are only 3 girls totaly in my class. I think I might step it up a little if I knew there would be a ton of people out there I was competing with.

Anyone else agree/disagree?

I think the wrong thing to do is to go on about girls being slower as was being done today. That's not very encouraging. I'm not saying I want a pat on the back everyone time I ride my bike, I just don't like hearing guys go on about how we don't race as fast because our bodies were created to make babies.

 

[sanjuro]

Chixs in DH are hella ghey!!!!

 

[amydalayna]

you're just upset that the girls you ride with are all faster than you.
don't cry. it's o.k.

 

[sanjuro]

 

[Snacks]

I guess there are just some things that come easier to guys than ladies. I know I can beat some guys down the hill, but not all, and that's okay with me As long as I'm having fun, and not crashing it's all good.

It's kinda funny because when ACC was racing lots of guys thought she was manly, probably jacked up on roids n crap cause she beat most of them

You can't have it both way boys

 

[amydalayna]

You can't have it both way boys

good call. guys say they want their girls to ride bikes and race and such. but all the guys i know hate when girls are faster than them.
i know mr.amydalayna would freak out the day i was faster than him.

 

[Dartman]

I love fast women. :love:

Snowshoe, WV is going all out for women this season. Ladies race for free along with a serious discount on the season riding pass.

We also have a very active "Ride Like a Girl" group ride here in Richmond, VA which has been copied for Northern VA...

http://www.ridelikeagirl.org/

Any guy who is against more women riding is ghey!!!

Mike

 

[amydalayna]

Ladies race for free along with a serious discount on the season riding pass.

holy crap that's awesome. i would be thrilled if they had that out here. do you think it helps? do you think more girls race because it's free?

 

[GrapeApe79]

I haven't seen that forum yet, but that's such a load of crap if guys were making negative comments about the girls.

Most of my guy rider friends are faster, but I can beat some of them, and luckily they are supportive and encouraging. But regardless of the guys' attitude, I agree that its all about having fun.

Yeah, in general, guys are naturally stronger than us gals, and sometimes able to turn their brains off more, which makes them faster in general. But I think that makes us girls that much more respectable if we can be out there racing the same course as they are, and pulling in decent times!

BTW, Amy, how are the wheelies coming? Mine are improving quite a bit, but I'm still trying to go higher so that I can master those wheelie drops. I'll post a pic here pretty soon!

 

[Dartman]

holy crap that's awesome. i would be thrilled if they had that out here. do you think it helps? do you think more girls race because it's free?

Have yet to get to the first race. I'll keep ya posted. I hope so.

I'm all for everyone to enjoy the sport because it's sooo much fun.

Mike

 

[bdamschen]

I don't really see any reason for girls to be slower than guys other than expirence.

Lots of guys started out riding their bikes like crazy as soon as their parents got them one. They were out building dirt jumps, trying to do wheelies and ride no hands from day one. Their parents got them a sweet BMX bike and signed them up to race early on also. You just didnt see that happen for too many girls. Usually they got stuck with the girl pink bike with the sloping top tube, white tires and basket with flowers on the front. When I end up with kids, I don't care if they're a guy or girl, they're going to get a sweet bike. It might be pink with flowers, but that's cause I'm having it custom painted

I know that there was also talk that most women are not pre-disposed to this kind of sport. I call BS on that. My girlfriend is scary agressive in anything competitive (physical violence in soccer, whooping dudes butts in surf contests, etc.), and goes out really hard for someone who has only really been doing the type of riding she is for just a few months.

I don't care if a girl beats me, as long as she's willing to share some tips with me once we get to the bottom

 

[VT Mtbkr]

Yep! I'll be racing/riding at Snowshoe more because they are really catering to women. It's already hard for me to afford taking on downhilling in addition to XC racing/riding so any help they want to give me cost wise is a huge incentive. Ametuer women race for free at the 4 Snowshoe races and any Sunday is free for women ($35 lift/shuttle). The season pass is also discounted by $75 for women.

As for women being slower. Sometimes I think that having to learn DH and ride DH with only guys has made me faster then I would have been had I learned with other women. I think they push me to keep up and encourage me to try things (safely) that the women wouldn't do. Of course I'm still slower then the guys but they don't seem to mind.

Thanks Dart for the RLAG plug! First DH race on Saturday!! Can't wait!

 

[mohshee]

This will be my first year racing DH and having purused the result times for various events, I often ask myself the same thing. But it isn't just DH. XC guys are faster then girls too. And you might have something there -- that the guys are REQUIRED to push themselves more to make the top 3 or even top 10. I wonder if women tend to be more careful, too, and cautious? Do guys just not care, and bomb things as fast as they can? Or maybe it has to do with experience levels and physical makeup. Or all of the above. Who knows. I'm just super pumped to be racing DH this season and help bring the number of girl racers up by 1!

 

[redFoxx]

I think that with the exception of the women on RM to the contrary, women in general don't grow up (as someone pointed out already) being very physical. If you look at the difference in people walking down the street or the women riding bikes, they lack physicality, a fluidness that I think comes from a lifetime of doing sports and consequently gives them confidence to try things when they do get on the mtn. bike.

And I agree I think that riding with guys has definitely helped me push myself because there's more competition. I go faster because I ride with guys and when I get in a group of women they don't try things as big or do over as often. That makes me more complacent.

So despite women's disadvantages in growing up with sports (as a generalization) I still think they can be as technical and fast as men if they would just push themselves more. But I know for a fact that some men think they should be able to beat all women which is just plain wrong and it's so fun to pass those guys...

It really pains me to see women not doing well in competition. I went to a BMX competition awhile ago and they had a women's category - there were only two women and they were so embarrassing, hardly trying anything and one women was falling all over like she just got on a bike. No wonder the guys laugh at us....

We have to show them - maybe it just takes a few more women to became visible as stars. Where is a female Ryan Leech, for instance? There can't be just one Hannah Steffens out there doing her 360's.

 

[amydalayna]

I go to the BMX track just to practice. Not to race, but they are always trying to talk me into racing cruiser because there are only 2 girl in that class. Need more or they have to race the guys.
anyways...

But our track is a little different. The 2 girls who currently race there are not falling over or embarrasing themselves. One of them is the world bmx champ in her age group. I take as many tips from her as I can get.

I kind of like the way bmx races are held. If there aren't enough girls in your category to race, you have to race the boys. Fair? Not sure. But helps you get really good if you want to keep up.

 

[redFoxx]

I had to go back and read that link you were talking about, Amy, and yikes, that was nasty. Alot of generalizations being paraded around as facts. here is a so-called fact: Women can have babies so that makes them weaker than men. :redhot: Stephanie seemed to be holding her own though in the fray.

I hate these generalizations. Really I think we should look at it as a physical issue. In some sports, being larger, heavier is an advantage so perhaps that is true in DH. However, woman weaker than men is only a generalization. It's also true that some women are stronger than men. If more women did physical things they would be stronger therefore, there would be more women stronger than some men.

However, in BMX, is having a larger body better? Why shouldn't women be able to compete equally in this sport without two different categories if it depends more on finesse and reflexes? I haven't ridden BMX to know what is involved so I don't have any clue.

I love seeing hard core women out there, no matter what the sport.

 

[Velocity Girl]

I don't really see any reason for girls to be slower than guys other than expirence.

Sorry but I have to diagree with this. Experience, how we were raised, and how society's views may skew our riding is only a few factors. Yes, they could be factors, but you are disregarding that physcially there are differences between men and women. It's not a bad thing...it's just fact. If you look at any sport that requires strength, you will see this (biking, swimming, running, etc.). Look at a something that requires only skill (e.g. brains and coordination) and we're on a level playing field...but of course, those are the things that most people don't consider sports (chess, pool, etc.)

If men and women were the same physically then there would not be a gender seperation in almost every sport....and personally...I'm ok with that because I'm ok with being a girl and what that means in the sports arena. Now tell me I'm not at the same level as a man mentally.....well then you'd have me spitting fire!

And of course, there are exceptions to the rules. There are guys that I can outride, and there are girls that can outride me, and then there are some people who are genetic freaks (like Lance Armstrong) who can outride everybody...so it does many time boil down to what you were born with.

 

[stephanie]

I think what some of the guys are trying to explain as "women not being as strong" is truly that "guys have more muscle mass and more muscle strength." Genetically speaking, that is true for the vast majority of the population. I work out a lot (lifting at the gym) and have gotten lots of compliments from both sexes about my upper body definition...but I still can't bench nearly as much as most guys I know. Now, guys being faster is another story. I think many girls ARE faster than guys, are as fast as some guys, or could be faster than guys, but they may not put themselves in an arena that tests them at the speed of their sport (i.e. riding dh for fun with your buddies on the weekend vs. going to a race and testing your speed).

Of course, "not being as strong" has many other connotations (mentally, for example), and there are some guys that will use that in their arguments. They may say that girls don't "have that edge" or whatever it takes for girls to go as fast. Aside from most of the pro men, Joanna Petterson had a time that rivaled or was better than many of the expert men at the Fontana national. She kicked a$$. The top women are routinely getting amazing times. Just compare the times, and the proof is in the numbers.

I am truly bummed about the number of women racing dh. I will say that even in the last year or so, I've seen the number of sport/beginner women increase. But, sorry to say, the number of women at the expert level doesn't seem to have changed. Not only was it time for me to step up and challenge myself, but I was so tired of racing against myself (or maybe one or two others). I think that the leap from sport to expert intimidates a lot of people, not just women but men as well. Maybe it is the fear of the course (the difference in technical skill required), maybe it is the fear of losing one's place on the podium (or near the top for that matter)? I think it's a combination of these factors.

Most of the guys I know think it's super cool when they see girls riding/racing. And, most that I know are very supportive. I also know that some of them are slightly resentful because their g/f, wife, or significant other wants nothing to do with bikes. They envy guys like my boyfriend who is with a woman who not only tolerates, but understands and lives the hobby/passion/obsession as well. Many of them are on "restriction" in regard to when they ride.

I could keep rambling, but I'll wait until someone has some feedback on anything I just wrote...:love:

 

[amydalayna]

I think that the leap from sport to expert intimidates a lot of people, not just women but men as well. Maybe it is the fear of the course (the difference in technical skill required), maybe it is the fear of losing one's place on the podium (or near the top for that matter)? I think it's a combination of these factors.

ding ding ding.
i will not race the expert course at n*. i can't even ride it on a good day without smashing myself. so... my biggest fear is i'll be stuck racing sport there (if they ever open again) just because I know I can't ride it without hurting myself.
I'm not being a scaredy cat, just riding within my limits.

 

[stephanie]

Oh, one quick p.s. ......

Here's how desparate some guys are to find a girl who also rides....I have had many conversations that go something like this, usually when at a race or out shuttling:

Me: Oh, I was just talking to my friend "Jane" the other day and....

Guy DH'er (interrupting): Does she ride bikes? No, no, more importantly, does she dh? Is she hot?

Anyone ever had this happen to them?

 

[stephanie]

ding ding ding.
i will not race the expert course at n*. i can't even ride it on a good day without smashing myself. so... my biggest fear is i'll be stuck racing sport there (if they ever open again) just because I know I can't ride it without hurting myself.
I'm not being a scaredy cat, just riding within my limits.

You're right...and the problem with a lot of the race courses is that the gap in "fear factor" between the sport and expert course is more like the Grand Canyon. There is very little that is progressive about most dh sport vs. expert tracks. That's something that I think the race promoters could do a better job addressing.

I think riding within limits and not caving to outside pressure to "move up" is critical, and so hard to do. I was at N* this past summer on the way back from Whistler. I took one look at DogBone and was like, "uh.....no." But, my friend Beth saw that rock drop and was like, "bring it on!!!"

Small improvements and small increments of learning are what I do best with. Usually, if I try to just go and do something a lot bigger, I end up on the ground.

 

[amydalayna]

with everything that's been said, wouldn't girls be equal with boys in bmx? it's not like DH where there is a fear factor... or xc racing where you're riding for long distances
it's about short sprints and bike finesse.

i got schooled last night play racing a 12 year old. Mind you, he races bmx and I don't. He has a full on race bike and I don't. But he was soooo fast. And couldn't weigh more than 90 lbs.

 

[zoey]

I've been reading the threads and I have a lot of rambly thoughts!

First of all having babies is painful, hard work. Hello? It's called labor. So women are not sissies, and we are not afraid of pain.

Second of all, men grow bigger muscles than we do, but women can be strong. Comparisons are weak. It's not true that men are always stronger than women. Do men have an athletic advantage over women based purely on genetics? I think it's a very small advantage. And I think it can be overcome.

Do I think men have an psychological athletic advantage over women? Absolutely. In my generation (70's) men were definitley encouraged in sports, and women were just beginning to be accepted in sports. I think it might not be so much with the generation that is coming up now, and that's good. But we're still feeling our way here, and discovering what we can accomplish. And I know for me, I've got a lot of catching up to do.


Big equals better downhill time? I have a guy friend who is compact (if he was a girl I'd call him petite, but then he'd kill me) and he rocks downhill. He got 5th place at sport dh at Sea Otter. His friend is large and heavy, not really so good at the downhill. I don't think size plays that much into it?

And can I just be a little bit snotty here and say I don't want to be considered "hot" because I'm a girl doing a "mans sport". I want to be considered hot because I'm a strong, athletic woman who is out there enjoying herself, and pushing my limits.

And finally I am going to start racing downhill next year, but I don't know how to train for it!!!!! I'm sorry. That's probably weak, but when I started triathlon there were training plans, and there are all kinds of coaching for running marathons and stuff. And I really don't know how to begin to get ready to race downhill. Obviously practicing going down hill a lot would be a good thing. But what else do you do that would be helpful? What kind of skills do i need to be focusing on. I'm old and I don't have a lot of time to learn by trial and error. And i want my practice sessions to be meaningful!

And that's all the rambly thoughts I have for today.

 

[redFoxx]

Nicely put, Zoey! I agree, I don't think fear is something more prevalent in women than men. Although lack of confidence, definitely.

I think it's just better for us to think we can be as good as the men; that'll make us strive harder, don't 'cha think? Rather than start looking at all the ways men might have an advantage.

And yes, I hate being a kind of novelty because I'm riding well, like some kind of trained monkey out there with all the guys doing stuff.

I don't believe I'll be racing DH but I do want to ride fast downhill and keep up with the better guys riding when we do go to the lift-assisted places. So any tips from those who are good at it are helpful.

I love the topics we've been discussing here on RM. It just beats some of the adolescent, one liners you see in the other forums.

 

[OGRipper]

Zoey, those are some great comments.

I like to think there will be more female participation over time, as more women are raised knowing it's ok to participate in DH, BMX, Moto, and other aggressive/action sports that so far in their short life have been male-dominated. As someone else mentioned, the rules are changing but it may take a generation to really see the results. When boys and girls both start riding agressively at a young age, maybe more will keep doing it when they get older.

I've only done a little DH racing and the experience hasn't always been great. Maybe the majority of women see that better than men, and would rather be out riding trails.

And since we're being honest: Seeing a woman crush it in the gnar IS hot, but not because she's participating in a "man's sport." It's because I'm attracted to women that like to do the things I like to do, and to women who think for themselves and are not restrained by what societal norms dictate they should do.

 

[redFoxx]

I've only done a little DH racing and the experience hasn't always been great.

Care to elaborate on that? I definitely think it'll take time for the women to start coming up in the ranks and be noticed. We just have to do our part in getting the word out that it's fun to get dirty.

I do know that I had quite a bit of freedom when I was young. My mom was too busy running the business to keep track of what we were up to so we were free to go ride bikes, ride our horses, climb trees and just go anywhere in the woods we wanted to. However, I did notice when we might be with other children, their mothers' did not look kindly on what we were trying to get their kids to do - they considered it unsafe.... this is regarding the mother's attitudes towards girls. I've also had many a caution from adults that I shouldn't be doing a certain thing, like diving off a swim area ladder for instance, even though boys were doing it and they weren't being warned!

I've also, recently, had a co-worker express disgust when I mentioned how many bruises I had from riding and he said he wouldn't want his daughter to get into biking because of that, ha ha.

So my words of advice to parents are - let your kids fall down and try things, it's good for them! Back off on telling girls to be careful - I hate those words to this day.

 

[OGRipper]

Care to elaborate on that? <snip>

Well let's see: Paying to ride, waiting in long lines to ride, waiting in long lines for a ride back to the top, not enough practice times, sandbaggers, people who don't get out of the way of an obviously faster rider, course officials with their heads up their asses, screwed up times, messed up results, extortionists charging too much for food and water, etc., etc.

The tribe is important to me, and so is challenging myself, but for a mid- to upper-pack sport rider racing is often more hassle than it's worth.

 

[zoey]

I once had an older woman tell me I shouldn't run because I didn't have any children and my uterus could fall out.

Just another danger of being an female athlete; blisters, bonking and falling uteruses.

 

[stephanie]

There will always be those who "get it" and those who don't about women in racing/riding. My students (a mix of 15-18 year olds) have mixed reactions: some think it's cool, others just don't get it. I think that's true of adults, too. And, of course, there are women and men out there who hold onto the ideals of June Cleaver.

 

[stephanie]

I once had an older woman tell me I shouldn't run because I didn't have any children and my uterus could fall out.

Just another danger of being an female athlete; blisters, bonking and falling uteruses.

Bwahahahahah....

How old WAS she...was she wearing a pilgrim hat and shoes with buckles on them? It is seriously sad how uneducated some women are about their own bodies. I think anatomy and physiology should be required of every student who goes to public school...no wonder we, as Americans, have generations of people in such poor health. Many of my students think what their bodies do are "gross"!

 

[sheila m]

I am absolutely loving this thread
Thank god for other girls in this sport that understand people with the same drive.

 

[sunny]

... I think anatomy and physiology should be required of every student who goes to public school... Many of my students think what their bodies do are "gross"!

I think a lot of what the body does is pretty gross... (insert squeemish smilecon here) which is pretty wierd considering that I have no problem with the fact that I come back scraped and bloody to some degree from almost every 2-hour trail ride. But I think it's probably the bike.

PS. and my uterus hasn't fallen out once since I started wearing magnets.


j/k about the uterus part.

 

[stephanie]

I think a lot of what the body does is pretty gross... (insert squeemish smilecon here) which is pretty wierd considering that I have no problem with the fact that I come back scraped and bloody to some degree from almost every 2-hour trail ride. But I think it's probably the bike.

PS. and my uterus hasn't fallen out once since I started wearing magnets.


j/k about the uterus part.

yeah, maybe i'm partial because of my bio background, but i'm fascinated with how "we" work as humans. our bodies are amazing, and i think a lot of the unhealthiness we have in our world is because folks don't understand how to treat their bodies (i.e. don't understand how it works and so don't know how to keep it running well).

 

[redFoxx]

How old WAS she...was she wearing a pilgrim hat and shoes with buckles on them?

Hey I think some of the younger women here forget that it was only thirty years ago that women weren't allowed to compete in the marathon because it was thought to be unsafe for women's bodies to compete that vigorously! And yes my mother told me that hard physical exertion wasn't good for women's parts. Sheesh.

 

[stephanie]

i know all too well how even a generation or two ago, women were told all sorts of disturbing things about their physical limitations. i am reminded whenever i talk to my mom and grandma.

to look at the glass half full...at least we've been making progress!!