[LordOpie]

...a good enough reason -- for those who say GW is not real -- to move forward in a more green way?

It just seems like we went from the crying indian on TV in my youth to doomsday, from people not caring to people spending so much money denying GW.

Why does the opposition oppose green so much? Is there a reason beyond money? Partisan politics? Something else?

 

[Toshi]

i blame religion and a false sense of ownership. many people feel that the earth, hell, the universe was made just so we could do what we please with it.

have you read Daniel Quinn's "Ishmael"? relevant and classic.

 

[bohorec]

In my opinion it has to do something with currently very popular mantra: me me me me me me me me me me me ---> ∞

 

[Secret Squirrel]

I'd say money is the driving factor. Car companies are dilly-dallying with green alternatives, prolly moreso than they let on...so when the last barrel is shipped, they just roll out the "new" cars. Everyone is f*cking everyone else...status quo.

 

[LordOpie]

i blame religion and a false sense of ownership. many people feel that the earth, hell, the universe was made just so we could do what we please with it.

have you read Daniel Quinn's "Ishmael"? relevant and classic.

Excellent point, you're probably right. No, haven't read that.

In my opinion it has to do something with currently very popular mantra: me me me me me me me me me me me ---> ∞

True.

 

[$tinkle]

.It just seems like we went from the crying indian on TV in my youth...

took me 3X to re-read.
thought it said "crying indian in my mouth", which would make for a more interesting thread.

 

[$tinkle]

i blame religion and a false sense of ownership. many people feel that the earth, hell, the universe was made just so we could do what we please with it.

have you read Daniel Quinn's "Ishmael"? relevant and classic.

haven't read that, but have read this little black book by my bedside which states we are stewards, and to whom much is given, much is required (new $tinkle translation)

this is the overwhelming opinion among us bible-thumpers, and for those small numbers which are of the mindset "the end is nigh", they generally don't go out & buy hummers & set fire to coal seams. they're more concerned w/ their spiritual well-being, which may come off as dismissive to GW, but understand their perspective: that it's quite arrogant to think we can "thwart the will of God". hope that makes sense.

i contend those who couldn't be bothered w/ the topic of GW are fiercely independent from all, including religion, which seeks to impose control over the masses. do you now see the communism nexus?

 

[jimmydean]

A classic quote I heard at work one day talking about MAX lightrail and the cost of building the tunnel into downtown:

"I don't know why they spent all that money because traffic on HWY 26 STILL sucks for my morning commute."

There are the vast majority of people who feel hybrid cars, public transportation, and fuel alternatives are created for other people so they don't need to change how they live.

I have learned a lot about myself over the last 2 years. I have changed many ways I do things because I know I can. A cleaner environment is enough for me.

 

[manimal]

Manifest Destiny.

 

[$tinkle]

of course, gore doesn't help his cause when he uses computer graphics in his film & passes it off as footage:
http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/Story?id=4682216&page=2

propaganda anyone?

 

[1453]

my Dad read in his youth(back when the other baby boomers were busy smoking pot and taking acid), and distinctly remember when the "danger" of the decade was global cooling. "the Ice Age is upon us!!!!" kind of stuff.

take everything you see with a grain of salt. Sometimes the earth cools and warms on its own, to think we can "solve" it is pure arrogance.

 

[LordOpie]

my Dad read in his youth(back when the other baby boomers were busy smoking pot and taking acid), and distinctly remember when the "danger" of the decade was global cooling. "the Ice Age is upon us!!!!" kind of stuff.

take everything you see with a grain of salt. Sometimes the earth cools and warms on its own, to think we can "solve" it is pure arrogance.

You totally missed the point.

 

[ire]

Sometimes the earth cools and warms on its own, to think we can "solve" it is pure arrogance.

I agree, but a cleaner enviroment is enough of a reason for me

 

[LordOpie]

I agree, but a cleaner enviroment is enough of a reason for me

Amen!

Sing it loud brother!

 

[$tinkle]

Amen!

Sing it loud brother!

that's noise pollution.

fale.

 

[1453]

You totally missed the point.

well, if you want a cleaner environment, there is a whole world out there that you should be looking at(been to Asia lately? check out their industrial areas).

The bigger point you are missing is that by comparison the United States, in PRACTICE(forget the carbon credit trading crap) is doing pretty damn good these days in environmental stuff. You should dedicate yourself to stop the environmental damage in countries like India or China to make a difference in the long run.

and yes, I do believe "green energy movement" these days is largely composed of venture capitalists who are out to get a slice of the pie. You wouldn't believe how many seemingly intelligent academics think compressed-air cars are the answer to GHG.

 

[LordOpie]

well, if you want a cleaner environment, there is a whole world out there that you should be looking at(been to Asia lately? check out their industrial areas).

The bigger point you are missing is that by comparison the United States, in PRACTICE(forget the carbon credit trading crap) is doing pretty damn good these days in environmental stuff. You should dedicate yourself to stop the environmental damage in countries like India or China to mae a difference

.....

that's noise pollution.

fale.

 

[1453]

ah, I won;t waste any of your time then. Have fun burning fossil fuel heating up your home and cars in Colorado winter.

 

[BMXman]

I'd say money is the driving factor. Car companies are dilly-dallying with green alternatives, prolly moreso than they let on...so when the last barrel is shipped, they just roll out the "new" cars. Everyone is f*cking everyone else...status quo.

yeah but car companies won't do a thing until the people demand it...so I still think we are our biggest hurdle...D

 

[skinny mike]

my speculation as of right now is that the temperature is going to warm until a certain point where more water in the oceans will evaporate. the greater amount of water vapor in the atmosphere will mean more cloud formation, which will eventually bring the temperature back down to an extent. it also means much heavier and more frequent precipitation. my guess is that something like that will happen(drastic change), it's just anyone's guess as to when it will happen.

there is also so much that isn't really accounted for when it comes to climate change. what exactly is going to happen once we get greenhouse gas emissions under control? what about the ever-increasing amount of particulate matter in the atmosphere. i have mentioned this multiple times before, but the amount of solar radiation reaching the earth is decreasing every year due to the phenomenon known as global dimming and there is still a large amount of speculation as to how that is going to affect earth and global warming in the long run.

 

[BMXman]

my speculation as of right now is that the temperature is going to warm until a certain point where more water in the oceans will evaporate. the greater amount of water vapor in the atmosphere will mean more cloud formation, which will eventually bring the temperature back down to an extent. it also means much heavier and more frequent precipitation. my guess is that something like that will happen(drastic change), it's just anyone's guess as to when it will happen.

Hello, Moses? What's up man it's BMXman...remember that idea you had....

 

[ohio]

my speculation as of right now is that the temperature is going to warm until a certain point where more water in the oceans will evaporate. the greater amount of water vapor in the atmosphere will mean more cloud formation, which will eventually bring the temperature back down to an extent.

Uh, dude. I speculate that you should just leave it to the experts. http://archives.cnn.com/2000/NATURE/10/09/clouds.warming.enn/index.html . And also, more water vapor doesn't mean more clouds if the tempurature is higher, because the dew point raises. It is NOT a self-stabilizing system. It is an unstable system. Greater heat leads to smaller ice caps which means less reflection, more absorption of sunlight = warmer. Don't even get me started on saturation levels of greenhouse gasses. The warmer it gets, the warmer is makes itself. Unless there is some freak occurence on the surface of the sun or in the orbit of the earth, once it gets warm enough, we're good and ****ed.

 

[skinny mike]

And also, more water vapor doesn't mean more clouds if the tempurature is higher, because the dew point raises.

this is sad, i should fail my weather and climate class right now for making that statement. i forgot that maximum humidity increases exponentially as temperature increases. jesus tap dancing christ that was stupid, and i haven't even gone near the wacky tobaccy in months.

 

[ire]

this is sad, i should fail my weather and climate class right now for making that statement. i forgot that maximum humidity increases exponentially as temperature increases. jesus tap dancing christ that was stupid, and i haven't even gone near the wacky tobaccy in months.

That could be your problem :biggrin: The earth has natural cycles of warming and cooling, but there has never been so much crap in the air as now.....I guess we'll see what happens, SPF1050 anyone?

 

[skinny mike]

SPF1050 anyone?

read:

what about the ever-increasing amount of particulate matter in the atmosphere. i have mentioned this multiple times before, but the amount of solar radiation reaching the earth is decreasing every year due to the phenomenon known as global dimming and there is still a large amount of speculation as to how that is going to affect earth and global warming in the long run.

sure, we have been able to cut back on the amount of particulates being emitted into the air, but there is no way to completely stop them the way the world is today.

 

[syadasti]

Another holiday today...

NSFW

http://www.break.com/index/fck-the-earth-day.html

 

[laura]

i blame religion and a false sense of ownership. many people feel that the earth, hell, the universe was made just so we could do what we please with it.

have you read Daniel Quinn's "Ishmael"? relevant and classic.

No doubt. I made some mention of water conservation to my mother the other day. She said "god will always give you water". My jaw hit the floor. It is painful to hear **** like that really.