[Heath Sherratt]

Just to say to all who participated in this, I meant no offense and did not imply that non-believers have no morals, I simply meant they are not learned and that we are born with them, although we are not born with discipline.

 

[N8 v2.0]

Just to say to all who participated in this, I meant no offense and did not imply that non-believers have no morals, I simply meant they are not learned and that we are born with them, although we are not born with discipline.

Last Sunday my ex-wife convinced my daughter to be baptized in their Baptist church as a part of a revival/vacation bible school program. It was something my daughter asked me to attend so I did.

Sitting there listening to some old guy with plastic preacher hair carry on about the evils of the internet (of course this particular church has a website, a fact that was omitted), I could hardly keep from just getting up and walking out.

After I got home I had to take a shower because of all the 'anointing' with the blood of Christ I had received whilst there.

Boy, those Baptists are sure into gore. It was blood this and blood that; everything covered in blood. Hell, the faithful even engaged in ritual cannibalism by eating Christ's body and drinking his blood...

I feel really bad for people who believe in that clap-trap. I feel even worse for the ones who only go along with it because they are brainwashed to and are truly afraid NOT to believe even thought they have some doubts.

 

[Slugman]

I feel really bad for people who believe in that clap-trap. I feel even worse for the ones who only go along with it because they are brainwashed to and are truly afraid NOT to believe even thought they have some doubts.

Wow... there is hope for you after all.

Now, apply the same vision to political attitudes. Becasue what you said above is how I feel when I see most of your political postings...

 

[golgiaparatus]

QUOTE=Changleen] The actual authors of the bible are more than 20, I don't have the exact amount right now but I know that it was written by many men thousands of years apart and with all different perspectives. You could do yourself a favor by doing a little research. It goes a long way.

Follow the origins of the text... especially the OT. Pay close attention to the origins of the idea of yaweigh(sp). That stuff is really interesting. I find it so crazy that a lot of the most hard core bible thumpers have never even looked into this on their own.

I did my research from a christian perspective 2 years before I graduated from one of the top evangelical schools in the nation... pretty crazy taking the new ideas I found back to my christian life class and then having to argue with the entire class Thats when I realized that people can quote the bible, they can throw out Jesus' teachings left and right... but 90% of them have no idea what the origins of what they are worshipping are... however, they will defend the text in the bible to the death.

 

[N8 v2.0]

Wow... there is hope for you after all.

Now, apply the same vision to political attitudes. Becasue what you said above is how I feel when I see most of your political postings...

Nah... politics is not a religious activity for me it's far more importaint than that.

Pres. Bush has his shortcomings but he's much-much-much better than anything the oppsition has to offer. So Bush it is!

 

[Slugman]

Nah... politics is not a religious activity for me it's far more importaint than that.

Pres. Bush has his shortcomings but he's much-much-much better than anything the oppsition has to offer. So Bush it is!

I feel really bad for people who believe in that clap-trap. I feel even worse for the ones who only go along with it because they are brainwashed to and are truly afraid NOT to believe even thought they have some doubts

 

[Tenchiro]

Hi, intersting idea, but not a lot of research gone into that reply, philosophers have been reinventing their "positions" for years.

You are quite right, it is mostly my opinion based of observation and a few of my own idea thrown in and a splash of vitriol.

Here's what I know about Jesus. I thought by looking at his followers I would see Him; that makes about as much sense as the nuts who follow bands and say they killed themselves because of the lyrics. Every individual must be taken for just that...an individual. You can't say that every Christian is a certain way, that's like stereotyping freeriders. It's just wrong.

You are jumping around alot, but I see your point. Individuals are individuals. But fear of the unknown is pretty common, and death is one of if not the biggest unknown that we face. It is not a huge jump to say that people concocted these belief structures to releive the anxiety of their own mortality.

Second, people for years have been saying that there is no God or that He is relative to us, that is ego centric by definition and about as probable as a tornado going through a junkyard and "randomly" creating a perfectly working jumbo jet. We did not simply evolve from some other creature, there has been proof of evolution sure, but not from one species changing into an entirely different species, only species changing their individual abilities to conform to extreme situations.

I am not sure how evolution came up, but that is a completely different arguement.

And your "theology" is actaully known throughout philoshophy and Christianity as "Relativism" or the chaos theory or last known by several famous philosophers as the non-reason theory and has been proven defunct by the search for the "noble savage" Philosophers said for years that morality was relative to the individual and the situation and that there was no "right" or "wrong" in the definitive sense. But when Hitler came around...well they simply had to change their "position" once again. You see, the church may be imperfect but God's Word, also known as the Bible, has not changed over the thousands of years it has been in exsistence. Sure people say that the interpretations are different but the story is intact and the meanings are the same as they have ever been. The "essence to the story never changed. Like the Lord of the Rings trilogy, the movies were "different" than the books, but the stories never changed, the content has always remained the same.

You are correct. Aside from errors in translation the bible is a very static (stagnant) document. Which in and of itself doesn't mean much. We can see from the mormons how prominent religions treat those that dare make changes to it.

The bottom line is that the bible was written by men, normal fallible men just like us. Men with their own agenda who were no more immune from bias and prejudice than we are.

There is far too much to this than can be covered in a thread on ridemonkey but there is one thing I can leave you with that you can not refute or argue... I lived 24 years without God in my life and was miserable for all of it, I have walked with this Christ for the last seven and He has never failed me or left me. He always hears me and answers the deepest cries of my heart. He has given me a new life and a new family. He loves me more than I could ever say or explain. And I would never have known or believed in Him if I would have looked through His followers, only by talking and trusting Him directly. I am grateful forever to Him for that and if I am living a lie than it is truly the greatest lie I have ever known and I am the scum of the earth, but I would never trade it for the life I led before Him You will never figure Him out. You can never hear enough facts to bring you to a conclusion. It is faith, and even that is a gift of God. For those who have ears to hear let them hear. For those with eyes to see, let them see

.

More power to you for having your own faith, but why god and not buddha, allah, ra, odin, zeus, etc? What is it that makes you so sure that "god" is the right one. Who is to say that in a 1000 years, christianity or any other common religion won't have been reduced to myth status like so many others.

As for the Jews, God says that you cannot be a jew outwardly if you are not one inwardly. Jews are not jews by their ethnicity, but by their spirtuality. Gods chosen people is a study in itself in History because we all came from Adam and he was not a hebrew or a "jew" This all came about because of the fall of man and the seperation of the families. Remenber Noah? He was far before Abraham and he was considered righteous enough for God to preserve the Human race.

I really don't know enogh abut the subject, but from my understanding. Jews are to christians as christians are to mormons. Each religion expanding on another and making it their own.

There is lots to know, all you have to do is want to know it. Blessings in your hunt for the truth, If you truly look for it with all your heart you will find it. And I say, what else is so important that you would give your eternal soul in exchange for it? In other words, what else is there to spend your time on if it means losing your soul because of it? Moutain biking?, sex, power? What? If that's what you want, that's what you get. Believe it. Peace.

What exactly could a person do in their infinitesimal life span on this earth that would merit eternal damnation? Seems to me all you would have to do is not accept god as your master and boom, lake of fire (or whatever). Ok, so maybe people like Hitler deserve that treatment.

If your god is needs so much to be my "master" so much that he will deny me eternal peace if I do not choose him. Can you say megalomaniac. Why the hell would I choose to associate myself with that?

In conclusion, People = Afraid of the unknown. God = Megalomaniac, Jews = Never to enjoy a good BBQ, the bible = One sided stagnant propaganda, Me = Glad to have something other than political threads to argue in.

 

[N8 v2.0]

I feel really bad for people who believe in that clap-trap. I feel even worse for the ones who only go along with it because they are brainwashed to and are truly afraid NOT to believe even thought they have some doubts

RE: Politics

Maybe when you get all grown up you'll figure it out.

 

[Andyman_1970]

Follow the origins of the text... especially the OT. Pay close attention to the origins of the idea of yaweigh(sp). That stuff is really interesting. I find it so crazy that a lot of the most hard core bible thumpers have never even looked into this on their own.

PM me with this info, I would be interested in this.

 

[Slugman]

PM me with this info, I would be interested in this.

 

[golgiaparatus]

More power to you for having your own faith, but why god and not buddha, allah, ra, odin, zeus, etc?

Shouldnt group Buddha with the others... he was not supernatural, nor did he ever say that he was, he was just a man.

 

[Tenchiro]

Shouldnt group Buddha with the others... he was not supernatural, nor did he ever say that he was, he was just a man.

Don't contradict me in front of the children. :angry:






You are right though.

 

[El Jefe]

I feel really bad for people who believe in that clap-trap. I feel even worse for the ones who only go along with it because they are brainwashed to and are truly afraid NOT to believe even thought they have some doubts

Would an "amen" be appropriate here? Yeah, yeah, I think so.

 

[golgiaparatus]

Don't contradict me in front of the children. :angry:

You are right though.

:dancing:

I think his teachings are my favorite of any "religion". They are just far more realistic than any other teachings that I have read.

 

[Andyman_1970]

:dancing:

I think his teachings are my favorite of any "religion". They are just far more realistic than any other teachings that I have read.

You'll have to educate me, how are the teachings of Budda more realistic than those of Jesus (not being defensive, being curious)?

 

[Tenchiro]

I think his teachings are my favorite of any "religion". They are just far more realistic than any other teachings that I have read.

I think if I were forced to pick a religion it would be Buddhism, but only to improve my Shaolin Kung-Fu.

 

[Slugman]

Jesus spoke directly against the arrogant and prideful that thought they had it all figured out, especially the religious types, He goes as far in one passage to call them "sons of Hell".

Can you send that one to W...

I guess you skipped science class... Try reading a little thermodynamics for a start. I have and it states that the period of time for "evolution to occur" would be more than a trillion years for it to begin, much less bring us to a place of such developed life forms as human beings, or frogs for that matter.

Hmmm… don’t remember that equation in any thermodynamics class I ever took. So you know what the ambient temperatures were more than a trillion years ago? You know the atmospheric pressure at that time as well? You can figure out the amounts of all matter and their chemical contents?

What did you base you calculations on and how can you prove them?

I’m glad you have gotten past the world being flat… but onto the next point – the Earth is NOT the center of the universe. It is not the oldest or only planet. Assuming that your statement above is remotely close to the truth; can you prove that life didn’t exist ‘off earth’ first, or that it did not originate elsewhere? The basic bacteria and/or viruses that initiated life could in fact be Alien… but according to the bible, oh wait, the bible doesn’t mention anything about outer space after the 1st 7 days. I know it is silly, but just as silly as Adam appearing from no-where...

There simply has not even been enough time for this random perfection to occur.

Do you even understand the concept that you are talking about. When things are random, they may happen even though it’s statistically unlikely. This is a statistical evaluation that bases its beliefs on probability and estimates. Even in a known and controlled situation they are never 100% sure of their results. So although it is unlikely, it could happen.

Evolution has been disproved quite definetly, I suppose it depends on what you want to believe.

LOL – by who… and when. Thanks for the lesson in BLIND FAITH

I am saying what has been said and discussed by Socrates, Deschates, Plato, and Every other great philosopher, morals are not indicitive of human behavior, they are complete and from an outside source, they cannot be relative or we would not see the common strand of "human nature" like murder and rape and such obvious things

.

Funny that you should bring up Plato in a discussion of religion, what did he believe? Was he a follower of what we now refer to as Greek MYHTOLOGY? Beliefs of people who held themselves to be the smartest and best, and knew that their gods were the true gods. Yet over the years as the general knowledge (Science) of the people increased, their ‘religion’ has been pushed to the level of mere fairy tales…

Now we know why the religious leaders do not want evolution taught… fear that they are in fact wrong! I guess faith is not enough for them, they need ignorance too.

I think if I were forced to pick a religion it would be Buddhism, but only to improve my Shaolin Kung-Fu.

Can they teach me Fung-Shei? If so sign me up!!!

 

[golgiaparatus]

You'll have to educate me, how are the teachings of Budda more realistic than those of Jesus (not being defensive, being curious)?

Bhudda was not supernatural... that is a large start.

Jesus was the son/embodyment of God, to believe in Jesus you have to first believe in God, or an ultimate creator. This is not a requirement in bhuddism because basically Bhudda was just a guy was like "hey I figured out how to be happy and at peace with myself and my surroundings, I think I'll teach people what I have learned" Most has to do with medatation and a quieting of the mind.

So basically what you are studying isnt someone that says I am the son of the almoghty lord... Bam! I can turn water into wine and feed thousands with fish from thin air, I can raise the dead and walk on water, etc.

So were off to a pretty good start for a religion to be more realistic.

The basis of Bhuddism are 4 truths:

(1) Life is suffering. To live, you must suffer. It is impossible to live without experiencing some kind of suffering.

(2) All suffering is caused by craving.

(3) suffering can be overcome and happiness attained.

(4) The Fourth Noble Truth is the Path leading to the overcoming of suffering. This path is called the Noble Eightfold Path and consists of Perfect Understanding, Perfect Thought, Perfect Speech, Perfect Action, Perfect Livelihood, Perfect Effort, Perfect Mindfulness, and Perfect Concentration.

This is about all I can explain without fahking it up. I read my share of Bhudist teachings after I stopped being christian, they are very enlightening and quite deep. However, they are realistic... read some you will see what I mean, ost of the teachings make a lot of sense.

 

[golgiaparatus]

I think if I were forced to pick a religion it would be Buddhism, but only to improve my Shaolin Kung-Fu.

Those guys were so bad because they could quiet their minds with practices they learned from studying Bhuddism... however, a damn nice benefit eh

 

[Changleen]

I have and it states that the period of time for "evolution to occur" would be more than a trillion years for it to begin, much less bring us to a place of such developed life forms as human beings, or frogs for that matter. There simply has not even been enough time for this random perfection to occur. The example used in most mathematics classes is to take a dictionary and dump all the letters of ONE page into a bag, periods, commas, parenthesis, etc. and shake it up and dump it out and see how long it takes for two letters to land in their correct position. Mathematically it would take trillions of years with millions of tries EACH day for even one half of a sentence to land in perfect structure. To me it takes more faith to believe that. Evolution has been disproved quite definetly, I suppose it depends on what you want to believe. Simply because it is taught in schools does not mean it is true Christopher Columbus.

That is such a flawed understanding I don't even know where to start...
Did you get this from the 'Narrow-minded Christian's book of things that are wrong?'

Evolution does not happen at a stable rate. Evolution is defined by environmental pressures. You CANNOT say 'it takes X amount of time for being A to turn to being B' - it doesn't even work like that. Try reading something about it not written by a Christian. Secondly, I don't NEED to 'believe' in evolution, I can go and look at the fossil record and see it with my own eyes. You're the only one doing any 'believing' here, buddy.

You're definately right about stuff being taught in schools not necassarily being right - I mean look at what you seemed to have 'learned' for a start.

I can't see how you are so closed minded that you accept that evolution does exist, but humans are not a product of it. I guess you probably think that you have a Soul and that animals don't as well? More evidence of flawed logic and false premis in your argument. You cannot prove a single one of your tennets. Your argument is based on things you accept to be true because of 'faith' rather than observable or measurable phenomena. In other words it's wrong.

Evolution has NOT been disproved. Show me any evidence of this. SHOW ME THE LINKS!

Why do you cling so ademently to the idea that the 'Bible' is the only source of truth? How can you possibly maintian this idea if you apply a moment of rational thought to it? How do you explain other religions? How do you explain that what the Bible says so blatently flies in the face of observable phenomena and experience?

I am saying what has been said and discussed by Socrates, Deschartes, Plato, and Every other great philosopher, morals are not indicitive of human behavior, they are complete and from an outside source, they cannot be relative or we would not see the common strand of "human nature" like murder and rape and such obvious things.

What a bunch of cr8p. 'Morals are not indicative of human behavior' - what does that even mean? Not all humans are moral all of the time? Well, no sh*t. So somehow from this you reach the conclusion that there is some sort of external complete moral authority? I'd like a better explanation of that for a start. The two things are in no way linked. And surely since people do rape and murder, morals can be applied in a relative way? Seriously, that paragraph makes no sense.

I said:
There is no 'right' or 'wrong' in the definative sense. There is simply majority rule on the subject. If you can't see that you're pretty dumb.

You said (please learn to use quotes):
Majority rule is not true either...Hitler? WWII That wasn't majority rule, that was the Atom bomb and some kick ass war strategies.

Once again, you completely missed the point. The definition of 'right' is defined by the majority in any situation. We won WWII and therefore we were right. We killed millions of Germans and were 'right' to do it. If Hitler would have won, He would now be 'right'. Take a quick look at History. The winner is always right, the looser is always wrong. It's a type of evolution. I also note you are proud of the use of the atom bomb. How very 'christian' of you.

Therefore, 'Right' as defined by your bible is simply accepted as right by people like you because a whole bunch of you get together and decide that you think it is. It is in no way the absolute authority on 'right and wrong'. For example, give me a sensible reason why it is wrong to be Gay.

No, the sects come actually from people taking scripture out of context and using it to exert their own agendas.

And your sect is different how? You are being used by someone to further their agenda. For some reason you've agreed to stop using the rational part of your brain, and can't see that for what it is.

The bible is a complete translation made by over a hundred scholars working from its best available Hebrew, Aramaic (the language Jesus spoke), and Greek texts. Just the NIV (New International Version) began after several years of exploratory study by committees from the Christian Reformed Church and the National Ass. of Evangelicals, a group of scholars met a Palos Heights, Ill. and concurred in the need for a new translation of the bible into contemporary english.

Yet another change. Let me ask you this, does your religion allow for divorce? I think so. Therefore you undeniably follow a different version of the thing today than was circulating a few hundred years ago. So why is it so hard to accept that the Bible is not the absolute word of god, but rather a story made up by men, designed to illustrate some points about sensible social behaviour, and that just because it happened to be written when people had no idea about things like evolution, and made up their own explanation - 'god did it' - that this is not neccasarily 100% true?

 

[Heath Sherratt]

Follow the origins of the text... especially the OT. Pay close attention to the origins of the idea of yaweigh(sp). That stuff is really interesting. I find it so crazy that a lot of the most hard core bible thumpers have never even looked into this on their own.

I did my research from a christian perspective 2 years before I graduated from one of the top evangelical schools in the nation... pretty crazy taking the new ideas I found back to my christian life class and then having to argue with the entire class Thats when I realized that people can quote the bible, they can throw out Jesus' teachings left and right... but 90% of them have no idea what the origins of what they are worshipping are... however, they will defend the text in the bible to the death.

It would be so amazing to see the truth taught in schools instead of propaganda. Not that it would "save" anyone, just give the enemy less ammo.

 

[Heath Sherratt]

Can you send that one to W...


Hmmm… don’t remember that equation in any thermodynamics class I ever took. So you know what the ambient temperatures were more than a trillion years ago? You know the atmospheric pressure at that time as well? You can figure out the amounts of all matter and their chemical contents?

What did you base you calculations on and how can you prove them?

I’m glad you have gotten past the world being flat… but onto the next point – the Earth is NOT the center of the universe. It is not the oldest or only planet. Assuming that your statement above is remotely close to the truth; can you prove that life didn’t exist ‘off earth’ first, or that it did not originate elsewhere? The basic bacteria and/or viruses that initiated life could in fact be Alien… but according to the bible, oh wait, the bible doesn’t mention anything about outer space after the 1st 7 days. I know it is silly, but just as silly as Adam appearing from no-where...


Do you even understand the concept that you are talking about. When things are random, they may happen even though it’s statistically unlikely. This is a statistical evaluation that bases its beliefs on probability and estimates. Even in a known and controlled situation they are never 100% sure of their results. So although it is unlikely, it could happen.


LOL – by who… and when. Thanks for the lesson in BLIND FAITH

.

Funny that you should bring up Plato in a discussion of religion, what did he believe? Was he a follower of what we now refer to as Greek MYHTOLOGY? Beliefs of people who held themselves to be the smartest and best, and knew that their gods were the true gods. Yet over the years as the general knowledge (Science) of the people increased, their ‘religion’ has been pushed to the level of mere fairy tales…

Now we know why the religious leaders do not want evolution taught… fear that they are in fact wrong! I guess faith is not enough for them, they need ignorance too.


Can they teach me Fung-Shei? If so sign me up!!!

Hey bro, Plato believed in "the unmovable mover" the one who was, is, and always will be.

 

[Changleen]

Still waiting for my disproof of evolution...
Or proof of the soul...

 

[Heath Sherratt]

Still waiting for my disproof of evolution...
Or proof of the soul...

reason.org

 

[Heath Sherratt]

reason.org

and when you are done i would like you to prove love to me, or hate, or that warm fuzzt feeling you get when you bash on someone you don't know anonymously.

 

[Changleen]

Umm, that appears to be the 'Reason foundation' - A political site. I tried searching for 'proof of soul' but nothing came up...

Want another go? I'd prefer if you explained it to me yourself...

Hey if you don't like being 'bashed' (or having a discussion as we sometimes call it) don't come to a discussion forum. Persoanlly I'd rather you stayed and tried to help me understand why you think it's OK to believe in something which has no logical basis or proof. Especially since the organisations that you associate with and support are responsible for a lot of human suffering and death of the years.

 

[Silver]

and when you are done i would like you to prove love to me, or hate, or that warm fuzzt feeling you get when you bash on someone you don't know anonymously.

Uh, chemical reactions in the brain?

I'm not a cognitive science major or anything, but philosophy of mind has been an interest for a few years now. I still occasionally slug through books that make my head ache, but in layman's terms I can think of many reasons to explain love and hate from both biological and social standpoints.

The rest of it? It's starting to look like it may all be chemistry, my friend.

 

[Heath Sherratt]

Umm, that appears to be the 'Reason foundation' - A political site. I tried searching for 'proof of soul' but nothing came up...

Want another go? I'd prefer if you explained it to me yourself...

Hey if you don't like being 'bashed' (or having a discussion as we sometimes call it) don't come to a discussion forum. Persoanlly I'd rather you stayed and tried to help me understand why you think it's OK to believe in something which has no logical basis or proof. Especially since the organisations that you associate with and support are responsible for a lot of human suffering and death of the years.

How many wars have been fought over women? Or love? are they horrible institutions? Are you going to give up on them too? because we are fallen?

 

[Heath Sherratt]

Umm, that appears to be the 'Reason foundation' - A political site. I tried searching for 'proof of soul' but nothing came up...

Want another go? I'd prefer if you explained it to me yourself...

Hey if you don't like being 'bashed' (or having a discussion as we sometimes call it) don't come to a discussion forum. Persoanlly I'd rather you stayed and tried to help me understand why you think it's OK to believe in something which has no logical basis or proof. Especially since the organisations that you associate with and support are responsible for a lot of human suffering and death of the years.

You asked for proof of evolution being a farse, did you read that? Those studies were done by non-believers and that set out to disprove the Bible...now they know.

 

[Heath Sherratt]

Uh, chemical reactions in the brain?

I'm not a cognitive science major or anything, but philosophy of mind has been an interest for a few years now. I still occasionally slug through books that make my head ache, but in layman's terms I can think of many reasons to explain love and hate from both biological and social standpoints.

The rest of it? It's starting to look like it may all be chemistry, my friend.

Sure and you are just an electrical impulse and we are all imagining ourselves, this is only a dream and pain is temporary...Let's go and dump chemicals into a river and watch them love each other.

 

[Silver]

Sure and you are just an electrical impulse and we are all imagining ourselves, this is only a dream and pain is temporary...Let's go and dump chemicals into a river and watch them love each other.

Well, to your first sentence, it's possible. I don't think it's likely, but there is a small chance that all my senses are lying to me. This isn't a new thought by the way (although when "The Matrix" came out, people oohed and aahed like it what something special, instead of a rehash of Plato's allegory of the cave.)

Your second sentence seems to be the tried and true argument from argument from personal incredulity. Just because you can't imagine it, doesn't mean that it can't happen. Remember, it was only a few hundred years ago that men thought that rotting meat spontaeously generated flies. Looking at how quickly knowledge grows and builds on itself, I'm leery to proclaim that I have all the solutions to all the problems...

 

[Toshi]

You asked for proof of evolution being a farse, did you read that? Those studies were done by non-believers and that set out to disprove the Bible...now they know.

i went to reason.org as well and it seems to be a libertarian site. found three references to "evolution", none of them relevant whatsoever. please recheck your source, as i love nothing more than digging into pseudoscience

 

[Changleen]

You asked for proof of evolution being a farse, did you read that? Those studies were done by non-believers and that set out to disprove the Bible...now they know.

Yeah, I asked if you could proove your point of view... But the problem is, for the third time, the site you sent me to is a political site - I used their search facility buy I could find nothing about proof or disproof of soul, god or evolution.

Is that the site you meant? Not trying to be weird, I think you have posted the wrong URL? Is that the one you meant?

 

[Changleen]

How many wars have been fought over women? Or love? are they horrible institutions? Are you going to give up on them too? because we are fallen?

I don't think many wars have actually been fought over women - that may be the 'Hollywood' version, (like the last gulf war being fought over WMD) but generally you do a bit of digging, and it boils down to religion or power, or religion and power.

 

[fluff]

Remember, it was only a few hundred years ago that men thought that rotting meat spontaeously generated flies.

Any fule knows that flies are the larval stage of dogs.

 

[fluff]

I don't think many wars have actually been fought over women - that may be the 'Hollywood' version, (like the last gulf war being fought over WMD) but generally you do a bit of digging, and it boils down to religion or power, or religion and power.

Power. Every time.

But then that's what religion boils down to.

(Power boils down to beer, btw.)

 

[Changleen]

Power boils down to beer, btw.

LOL - I always suspected as much! I have a bottle of premium export power in my hand right now!

 

[Andyman_1970]

This is not a requirement in bhuddism because basically Bhudda was just a guy was like "hey I figured out how to be happy and at peace with myself and my surroundings, I think I'll teach people what I have learned" Most has to do with medatation and a quieting of the mind.

Ya know Jesus taught that, He was an Eastern teacher (which most people overlook).

 

[golgiaparatus]

It would be so amazing to see the truth taught in schools instead of propaganda. Not that it would "save" anyone, just give the enemy less ammo.

LOL! The enemy. That's the grand finale in this thread

I dont understand, exactly what you are trying to saying here.
What schools... christian schools, churches?
What truth, from whose perspective, on this subject there are many different truths, depending on who/where its coming from.

On another yet related note: I liken pastors to really some of the nicest people in the world, though they are similar to a salesman in so many ways though... albeit the nicest salesman in the world, their product is what they believe to be the most inportant/most treasured thing in the world... and they want you to have it for FREE! Seriously, what a great gift to recieve from someone, the thing that they treasure the most... anyway, regardless of how great they are, they still have literature, just like any good salesman. Thats where the problem lies. If you go buy what the salesmans literature tells you then you are going to be sold. But if you do your own research, you might find out that the product is a useless pile of garbage OR you might find out that the literature is correct, yet, now you have some real questions for the salesman.

Anyway, the church's job is to bring you into their world... its your job to find the quirks and develop the questions, a good church can give you the answers, or can they?

 

[golgiaparatus]

i went to reason.org as well and it seems to be a libertarian site. found three references to "evolution", none of them relevant whatsoever. please recheck your source, as i love nothing more than digging into pseudoscience

Sweet, send N8 there :nuts: