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RenegadeRick

98th percentile on my SAT & all I got was this tin

RenegadeRick

98th percentile on my SAT & all I got was this tin
The widespread regional systems using Narus equipment under ATT was approved in 2002.
The widespread program in place now, may have been implemented after 9/11, but the planning for it began prior to 9/11. It is disingenuous to claim that the program was created in response to 9/11, when ATT had talks with the NSA about it in February 2001.
 

syadasti

i heart mac
Apr 15, 2002
12,690
290
VT
The widespread program in place now, may have been implemented after 9/11, but the planning for it began prior to 9/11. It is disingenuous to claim that the program was created in response to 9/11, when ATT had talks with the NSA about it in February 2001.
The Narus system did not exist then, it was state of the art technology then. Wired confirms this:

The physical arrangement, the timing of its construction, the government-imposed secrecy surrounding it, and other factors all strongly suggest that its origins are rooted in the Defense Department's Total Information Awareness (TIA) program which brought forth vigorous protests from defenders of constitutionally protected civil liberties last year:
TIA is from 2002...
 
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jonKranked

Detective Dookie
Nov 10, 2005
85,562
24,182
media blackout
Here ya go freak.


This is the result of the government taking your freedom from emails you willingly send in.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/realitycheck/



Fvcking terrifying.
hmmmm...

should I start trolling the government reality checks? Is it true that Government Health Care will coincide with the introduction of Soilent Green?

I could have fun with that. I should go to a town hall and start screaming "OBAMA IS THE LEADER OF THE CRAB PEOPLE!"
 

syadasti

i heart mac
Apr 15, 2002
12,690
290
VT
and does it really matter which system is spying on Americans™?
Lots of people want to nuke other people but fortunately its still a significant challenge to build a bomb.

Similarly, until the Narus system came along, it was not possible on such a large scale. I am sure many nutjobs wanted to do it for a long time but it was impossible until then.
 

RenegadeRick

98th percentile on my SAT & all I got was this tin
Lots of people want to nuke other people but fortunately its still a significant challenge to build a bomb.

Similarly, until the Narus system came along, it was not possible on such a large scale. I am sure many nutjobs wanted to do it for a long time but it was impossible until then.

Fair enough. The desire existed prior to 9/11. 9/11 provided a convenient excuse. In 2002 the technology to do what they wanted to do became available and today we have a mass surveillance wet dream. I think we have the details worked out now.

In any case, you don't need to forward your emails to Obama anymore... he's already got 'em.
 

Pesqueeb

bicycle in airplane hangar
Feb 2, 2007
40,138
16,537
Riding the baggage carousel.
It's already gone. Corporate interests rule everything. One of my senators is not doing the job the people of this state elected him for, he is explicitly pandering to the health insurance lobby. That is not democracy.

The great victory that the right, the corporations, and the ultra-rich have pulled off over the last 30 years is to raise an army of brain-dead morons to champion the rights of the elite at the expense of the common man.

So private spurlicked, report for duty.
As more and more of this health care debacle unfolds, I'm really starting to belive this. Democracy is dead at the hands of Corporate business.
 

syadasti

i heart mac
Apr 15, 2002
12,690
290
VT
As more and more of this health care debacle unfolds, I'm really starting to belive this. Democracy is dead at the hands of Corporate business.
And it often costs us more money to do it privately, not less. The US has some the highest healthcare costs in the world right now under the private system.

The private contractors for the military in the Middle East have a well proven record - they cost much more than standard military personnel, cause more problems, and do substandard work. We are paying more money for completely unacceptable quality work - often they are basically robbing the government/taxpayers. Where is the outrage from right-wing nut jobs over that - the last administration was well connected to Halliburton and awarded billions in no-bid contracts. Military accountability and waste is HUGE compared healthcare - a little better efficiency there and we could easily afford to pay for healthcare for everyone and still be ahead in cost savings.
 

Pesqueeb

bicycle in airplane hangar
Feb 2, 2007
40,138
16,537
Riding the baggage carousel.
And it often costs us more money to do it privately, not less. The US has some the highest healthcare costs in the world right now under the private system.

The private contractors for the military in the Middle East have a well proven record - they cost much more than standard military personnel, cause more problems, and do substandard work. We are paying more money for completely unacceptable quality work - often they are basically robbing the government/taxpayers. Where is the outrage from right-wing nut jobs over that - the last administration was well connected to Halliburton and awarded billions in no-bid contracts. Military accountability and waste is HUGE compared healthcare - a little better efficiency there and we could easily afford to pay for healthcare for everyone and still be ahead in cost savings.
:stupid:

Preach it brother!!
 

dante

Unabomber
Feb 13, 2004
8,807
9
looking for classic NE singletrack
As more and more of this health care debacle unfolds, I'm really starting to belive this. Democracy is dead at the hands of Corporate business.
Don't forget to credit stupid people as well. When a group of old people stand up and rail against Socialized Medicine when in fact 90% are on Medicare, you know that the Corporations are having some help in taking down this bill...
 

X3pilot

Texans fan - LOL
Aug 13, 2007
5,860
1
SoMD
Don't forget to credit stupid people as well. When a group of old people stand up and rail against Socialized Medicine when in fact 90% are on Medicare, you know that the Corporations are having some help in taking down this bill...
Corporations along with their lobbies..in the case of the old coots, the AARP, second in power only to the NRA..
 

MikeD

Leader and Demogogue of the Ridemonkey Satinists
Oct 26, 2001
11,669
1,713
chez moi
they cost much more than standard military personnel,
Sometimes true in the short run, but not often true in the long run--salary wise, yes, they make a TON more during the terms of their contracts. But with contractors, the government avoids the costs of recruitment, training, and more importantly, lifelong benefits and retirements.

It's also a structural thing. Some contractors have been there filling roles that the military was not trained, organized, or equipped to provide, such as protecting civilians in full-on-war zones and massively dangerous post-conflict areas.

It's not as silly as many try and make it sound. It's also not some overall panacea solution for military/government inefficiency. It's a political football when it should in fact be a decision based on necessities and economics.

My personal experience is that sometimes the gov has clung to contracting when it's outlived its usefulness in certain roles (perhaps out of ideology, perhaps out of the gov's inherent resistance to change), and the gov could in fact be doing it better by itself. But there are times and roles where it makes sense/has made sense.

MD

Ed: PS-- I know NOTHING about health care and leave that to those smarter than I.
 
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dante

Unabomber
Feb 13, 2004
8,807
9
looking for classic NE singletrack
Sometimes true in the short run, but not often true in the long run--salary wise, yes, they make a TON more during the terms of their contracts. But with contractors, the government avoids the costs of recruitment, training, and more importantly, lifelong benefits and retirements.
Aren't most military contractors post-military anyway? So the army has already spent the money on recruitment, training, etc, and then they leave and come back as contractors making much more money anyway...
 

syadasti

i heart mac
Apr 15, 2002
12,690
290
VT
Aren't most military contractors post-military anyway? So the army has already spent the money on recruitment, training, etc, and then they leave and come back as contractors making much more money anyway...
Hasn't MikeD left the military after all they've invested in him for greener pastures:weee:
 

syadasti

i heart mac
Apr 15, 2002
12,690
290
VT
My personal experience is that sometimes the gov has clung to contracting when it's outlived its usefulness in certain roles (perhaps out of ideology, perhaps out of the gov's inherent resistance to change), and the gov could in fact be doing it better by itself. But there are times and roles where it makes sense/has made sense.

MD

Ed: PS-- I know NOTHING about health care and leave that to those smarter than I.
In a similar vein, don't most military planners slam idiots who try to run the military like just another business - see Rumsfeld - Iraq war.

The same people who seem to be crying about evil socialism are the people who say they support the military. The US military is socialist institution, so do they like socialism or not? Love it or leave it :p

And what about the other US socialist establishments - public law enforcement, first aid, and fire departments - they must be source of the ruin for our nation. Private companies should be around to make a profit and decline your emergency cause its not profitable. Yeah that would be great!
 
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blue

boob hater
Jan 24, 2004
10,160
2
california
Sometimes true in the short run, but not often true in the long run--salary wise, yes, they make a TON more during the terms of their contracts. But with contractors, the government avoids the costs of recruitment, training, and more importantly, lifelong benefits and retirements.

It's also a structural thing. Some contractors have been there filling roles that the military was not trained, organized, or equipped to provide, such as protecting civilians in full-on-war zones and massively dangerous post-conflict areas.

It's not as silly as many try and make it sound. It's also not some overall panacea solution for military/government inefficiency. It's a political football when it should in fact be a decision based on necessities and economics.

My personal experience is that sometimes the gov has clung to contracting when it's outlived its usefulness in certain roles (perhaps out of ideology, perhaps out of the gov's inherent resistance to change), and the gov could in fact be doing it better by itself. But there are times and roles where it makes sense/has made sense.

MD

Ed: PS-- I know NOTHING about health care and leave that to those smarter than I.
You also have a vested interest in making sure mercenaries stick around...
 

Silver

find me a tampon
Jul 20, 2002
10,840
1
Orange County, CA
They make sense in very specific applications...like when you'd hire a computer programmer for a specific application you needed written. If you needed someone to code every day, you'd be an idiot to hire a freelancer to do it, right?

The US government is full of idiots...
 

MikeD

Leader and Demogogue of the Ridemonkey Satinists
Oct 26, 2001
11,669
1,713
chez moi
Silver, you hit the nail on the head. That's precisely the application for contractors with the .gov...especially when direct-hire personnel take a long time to be hired due to the bureaucracy, can't be fired after the project is over (which is insurance against partisan politics/spoils system sweeping the ranks of the civil service), and/or contractors have specific skills which are needed now. (For protection in hostile war zones, the contractors don't need all the skills US protective and law enforcement are trained in over the course of years...)

(And yes, with the number of idiots in the government who are motivated by a politico-philosophical love of privatization despite the utility of a particular application, we've seen some funny/stupid/depressing stuff.)

Of course, the .gov has the option to hire on a personal services contract directly, without another intervening bloated wasteful bureaucracy like several of the PMCs have grown into internally...in some cases, that internal management capacity was needed, but in some cases it's not or the need has been outgrown.

Blue, I'm not a contractor...in fact, many in my job fear or loathe contractors. I don't, because I'm not scared they're going to take my job and I don't think they're inherently evil.

Like Silver says, sometimes they're the smart or practical thing and sometimes they're not. And like Syadasti says, society's public interest is often best served by the public sector.

This always turns into 4 legs good, 2 legs bad for some people, on both sides of the issue...
 

RenegadeRick

98th percentile on my SAT & all I got was this tin
From the White House...

"There is a lot of disinformation about health insurance reform out there, spanning from control of personal finances to end of life care. These rumors often travel just below the surface via chain emails or through casual conversation. Since we can’t keep track of all of them here at the White House, we’re asking for your help. If you get an email or see something on the web about health insurance reform that seems fishy, send it to flag@whitehouse.gov."

http://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/Facts-Are-Stubborn-Things/
White house tip email box shut down.

Thank goodness! I'm sure all our efforts on the monkey played a huge role in the decision. Yay freedom! :weee:

Now Obama can't read our emails anymore... wait... wat? :rolleyes: