Got new ram, storage and video card......now tell me what motherboard and processor

valve bouncer · Mar 1, 2008

kidwoo said:
I've slowly upgraded everything except my motherboard and processor spending probably twice as much as just getting a new tower.

Yeah true, but you're doing it for the same reason dogs lick their balls.

$tinkle · Mar 1, 2008

valve bouncer said:
Yeah true, but you're doing it for the same reason dogs lick their balls.

to get to the creamy center?

syadasti · Mar 1, 2008

Unless your primary applications can take advantage of it, you'd probably be better off getting a faster dual core CPU vs. a quad core. Most applications won't see any benefit right now going to a quad core. A Wolfdale Core 2 Duo is the latest and greatest but it all depends on your budget - the E8400 CPU is around $240.

There are various motherboards, depending on your needs - expect to pay at least around $100 for a decent one. I like Asus, Intel, and Gigabyte board for the most part.

Your RAM is DDR2, but what speed, I don't know. Dell might have cheaped out and got some slower memory - the old motherboard chipset you have supports DDR 667 w/1066 FSB max while the new can do up to DDR2 1066 w/1333 FSB. What that means is you won't have the best memory performance on your system with your old RAM - depend on what applications you are doing that could be a bottleneck.

You could in theory run a Conroe Core 2 Duo up to 2.66 stock speed CPU in your motherboard if Dell's BIOS supports - contact Dell.

Honestly upgrading all this stuff piece by piece will probably cost more than just buying a Dell refurb and the only advantage will be slightly better motherboard/PSU and if you got the right cooling setup you could overclock if you have upgraded decent memory.

Why don't you give your old PC to your GF/wife/mom/brother/dad/dog and swap to keep the high spec upgrades you have for the new PC?

syadasti · Mar 1, 2008

E6850 CPU ($280) + MB(at least $100) + 2GB DDR2 800 ($50) vs this Dell complete with the same for about $50 more - just swap out the stuff and give away the old and/or crappier:

http://outlet.us.dell.com/ARBOnlineSales/topics/global.aspx/arb/online/en/InventoryDetails?systemId=FXCG6B63&~lt=popup&c=us&l=en&s=dfb&cs=28

syadasti · Mar 1, 2008

kidwoo said:
I've already upgraded my ram to 4GB.

Just thinking that at this point, everything in my tower is fine, upgraded and stellar. And now I'm at the point where a new motherboard and processor(s) are cheaper than an entirely new system.

I shouldn't need to buy anymore ram than what I've got so I can put the chips in a new motherboard right?

$240 is well within what I'm expecting to spend........but that's just the processors without the motherboard right?

I owe you some serious beers by the way.

Well you gotta see if Dell's BIOS for your MB will support Core 2 Duo and I don't know if the application you'll be using is limited by using slower RAM in combination. If it supports it the closest to $240 would be this Conroe at $200, not all 945G motherboards have the BIOS updates to do Core 2 Duo, with it being an OEM Dell board I kinda doubt it: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115016

syadasti · Mar 1, 2008

No support for Conroe on your board and people seem to get error message with the crappy Pentium D CPUs (wouldn't be worth it to upgrade and are harder to come by these days) in your motherboard. Plus as it notes, your XP license is tied your Dell MB so you might have problems if you want to try to run you Dell OEM XP on a new MB. You'll need a new heatsink/fan which isn't included if you buy a OEM vs. retail box CPU (another thing to consider):

http://www.dellcommunity.com/supportforums/board/message?board.id=dim_other&message.id=296690&c=us&l=en&cs=&s=gen

syadasti · Mar 2, 2008

Next cheapest option, though I think the $30 extra for the one above is worth if you buy another system: http://outlet.us.dell.com/ARBOnlineSales/topics/global.aspx/arb/online/en/InventoryDetails?systemId=F5BBPAER&~lt=popup&c=us&l=en&s=dfb&cs=28

syadasti · Mar 2, 2008

So if you just want to do the MB and retail CPU (has heatsink/fan) you'd get the E8400 and this gigabyte:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115037

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128059

So that would be $330 + XP

edit: $89 for XP home or $140 if you want XP Pro x64 (if you want to take RAM over 4GB in the future - I think your app might have support???)

So less than $100 difference vs the first $510 system I recommended - not worth it

syadasti · Mar 2, 2008

You realize you'll have to wipe your OS and you won't be legally able to install with your Dell OEM CD most likely?

You'll need another license of your OS unless MS wants to be nice (you could say your MB died or something and couldn't use Dell parts because you were in a rush but really its supposed to be tied to the system and can't be transferred to a new system which is basically what you have after all these upgrades) ...

See its not so cheap and easy to upgrade everything - you could have two computers for less than $100 when you factor it all in and swap out the better stuff to the machine that you are going to be using and transfer stuff off the old PC at you leisure.

An upgrade here or there, but doing almost everything - expensive and PITA...

syadasti · Mar 2, 2008

So there is the $510 XP Pro system and then this - more storage with Vista slightly slower CPU and DVDRW:

http://outlet.us.dell.com/ARBOnlineSales/topics/global.aspx/arb/online/en/InventoryDetails?systemId=FLR92MDY&~lt=popup&c=us&l=en&s=dfb&cs=28

valve bouncer · Mar 2, 2008

kidwoo said:
They lick their balls to make badass bike videos?

Who knew!!

That's some smart dog, like Benji f*cked Lassie or something.

binary visions · Mar 2, 2008

Hadn't seen this thread yet...

Hey Woo, you're rapidly entering the realm where buying pre-built systems simply isn't practical. Video editing tends to be fairly brutal on systems and having something like a Dell isn't necessarily practical if you're interested in upgrading.

I have that exact same processor and motherboard that syadasti linked you to, and it's pretty damn quick. Since you have upgraded memory, an upgraded video card and you want to upgrade your processor and motherboard, quite frankly I'd spend an extra $150 on top of that and get a case/power supply. You'll then be completely independent of Dell. If your case is BTX, you won't be able to upgrade your motherboard. Depending on the model, the power supply may be running at the limits of its capabilities with the video card upgrade and potentially a multi-core CPU.

Plus, Intel's sockets tend to be long-lived, so if you just bite the bullet and end up with a completely home-built system, you can continue your upgrade cycle.

H8R · Mar 2, 2008

binary visions said:
quite frankly I'd spend an extra $150 on top of that and get a case/power supply.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811129033

syadasti · Mar 2, 2008

He already has a new PSU and GPU.

The Vostro has a G33 motherboard which uses the same southbridge as the P35 chipset (both mainstream platforms vs prosumer X series or professional Xeon workstation/server platforms which each offer additional features over the other which may or may not matter for what you are doing). For what he is doing with the RAM he already has he won't see any appreciable difference for his applications and he'll also have to buy an new OS license. The new Wolfdale are slightly faster at the same speed (a lot in some cases when the application is eventually optimized to the new features Wolfdale has) but not worth the extra money right now and he'd probably still be able to upgrade cheaply to Wolfdale later if needed with the G33 chipset in the Dell Vostro motherboard.

Its not a complete new CPU architecture or anything like that, just a new revision of the family - its Conroe 3 GHz vs 3 GHz Wolfdale Core 2 Duo.

Good point about Dell 5150 switching to the newer BTX form factor - I forgot about that. He needs a new case so its not really cost effective to upgrade everything and get another license. BTX is probably the future, but it will just take us a while to get there when Intel decides power usage requires it.

He can use the old PSU and original memory in his old PC for whatever and the if he is lucky the upgraded memory he got is DDR2 800 instead of DDR2 533 or 667 which is stock, depend on when he bought it with the 2GB of DDR2 800 in the Vostro. The new PSU and graphics card can go in the Vostro and the nvidia 8300 can go in the old 5150...

For Woo the Vostro/Conroe vs Gigabyte/Wolfdale it would be like a 888 vs. 888 Works - Works is slightly better but both have great performance and you could easily setup the stock 888 on your own to achieve comparable performance for a lot less.

Here is the mATX G33 Motherboard in the Vostro 400:

syadasti · Mar 2, 2008

Another pitfall for upgrading or parts swap is the transition from IDE to ATA drives - the Gigabyte only has 1 IDE and the Vostro - none (so it has 2 free SATA ports). There are some IDE to SATA adapters you can buy but if you run out of the 4 SATA ports then you'll have to get an add-in PCI or PCIe card.

binary visions · Mar 2, 2008

I think BTX is a pretty lousy layout for the enthusiast. For business applications it works okay but the reality is that you're taking all the hot air generated by the CPU and blowing it directly back at the hottest component in the case, the GPU.

Picking Conroe over Wolfdale wasn't my point, it was escaping from the various pitfalls that buying a boxed system causes. The Vostro, for instance, is a micro ATX motherboard. That means the next case you buy must be micro ATX or you'll need a new motherboard. While upgrading a case may not seem likely right now, Woo probably wasn't betting at the beginning of this upgrade cycle that he'd be buying a new motherboard.

You're right, the Dell is cheaper. But there's always something about a big name, prebuilt system that doesn't sit right with the enthusiast. The Gigabyte has a couple extra PCI express slots, a couple extra SATA slots, an IDE connector so the old drives still work without buying or fiddling with adapters... A lot of the new machines I've been seeing from Dell don't even come with PS/2 ports if you have an old keyboard.

So... Dell = cheaper. But breaking yourself free from the confines of the Dell has its advantages, if you're willing to pay to play.

syadasti · Mar 2, 2008

binary visions said:
So... Dell = cheaper. But breaking yourself free from the confines of the Dell has its advantages, if you're willing to pay to play.

He just wants to make videos and wants lots of CPU and RAM with GPU and doesn't seem to want to spend money. Big fast storage would be another need, but both motherboards only have 4 SATA ports and only PCIe x1 that is no good for modern mid to high-end RAID cards useful for ideal video editing storage setups. Neither motherboard would be considered enthusiast - they are mainstream budget motherboards.

You can do some pretty neat things with eSATA via a cheap PCI x1 though if needed if you just need a lot of storage.

Most users don't need to upgrade everything and even for enthusiasts often you get more bang for buck to wait for a new platform rather than costly incremental upgrades for minimal gains.

Ciaran · Mar 3, 2008

Just a note on the OS / Windows licensing issue. If your dell has the Windows sticker with the product key code than you can use that to reinstall and activate.

I have used many dell branded discs and the serial/key code that came on the Dell PC to install and activate Win XP on many a non dell system. (The company I work for at one time had a contract with Dell. I still have many serials I use when building/rebuilding my PCs)

The only difference is that you'll have some dell support stuff to delete and maybe uninstall. And when using the dell disc on the dell system it auto activates.

syadasti · Mar 3, 2008

Ciaran said:
Just a note on the OS / Windows licensing issue. If your dell has the Windows sticker with the product key code than you can use that to reinstall and activate.

I have used many dell branded discs and the serial/key code that came on the Dell PC to install and activate Win XP on many a non dell system. (The company I work for at one time had a contract with Dell. I still have many serials I use when building/rebuilding my PCs)

The only difference is that you'll have some dell support stuff to delete and maybe uninstall. And when using the dell disc on the dell system it auto activates.

Its tied to the Dell BIOS. The gigabyte MB has no Dell BIOS.

It won't auto activate and you can't legally install an OEM OS on a new system which is what it is when you upgrade basically everything.

syadasti · Mar 3, 2008

kidwoo said:
I'm so god damn frustrated with it, that I'll easily spend money just to get something that works.

Thanks for the discussion guys. Helps with the research for sure.

Which is another reason I am also recommending a pre-built system.

Obviously there are a lot of computer nerds on here that want to upgrade, tweak, and hack their system for whatever reason.

I'm probably right to assume your are more like a regular computer user who just wants to use their computer to get the job done so you can spend time doing the things you enjoy.

I use to like playing around with them lots just for fun and was even paid to write for http://www.tech-report.com for a year but these days I'd rather just use them for work/as tools. The enthusiast silliness is often for minimal gains at cost of valuable time and money.

The importance of the desktop PC market as a whole is on the decline as other form factors take over. With convergence on other mobile device eventually notebooks will follow.

Ciaran · Mar 3, 2008

syadasti said:
Its tied to the Dell BIOS. The gigabyte MB has no Dell BIOS.

It won't auto activate and you can't legally install an OEM OS on a new system which is what it is when you upgrade basically everything.

"LEGALLY" is not a technical issue. I was offering a technical workaround, not a moral one.

You CAN use the CD on a non dell mobo/box IF you have the key that came with the original Dell PC (It should be somewhere on the case). What happens is that when you activate it will say that it has failed. Tell it to retry,and to activate over the internet. It will ask for a valid product key. Enter the dell key and it WILL activate.

The CD is tied a SERIES of keys (which is why sometimes the keys I have sent people do not work). The auto activation feature is tied to the mobo.

syadasti · Mar 3, 2008

Ciaran said:
The auto activation feature is tied to the mobo.

If the OS has been reinstalled/key activated recently the activation won't work over the Internet and you'll have to call for a code and unless you lie they won't give you one if you tell them what you are doing.

There are activation workarounds but those sometimes break with OS updates.

binary visions · Mar 3, 2008

syadasti said:
I'm probably right to assume your are more like a regular computer user who just wants to use their computer to get the job done so you can spend time doing the things you enjoy.

It's funny, I'm recommending the opposite for the same reason... and I VERY rarely recommend non-prebuilt systems.

The reason I'm recommending it is because Woo is clearly demonstrating that he is interested in modifying his computer to suit his needs as his needs grow and change. That doesn't have anything to do with the enthusiast tweaking to get the last few ounces of performance out.

The fact is, a more standardized computer will allow that modification more easily as things change. Most people just bag their existing system and buy a new one, but if you want to ensure complete upgradability (is that a word?), Dell is getting better but there are still limitations.

Anyway, Kevin, obviously there's a discrepancy here in our thinking, I'm just trying to provide my reasons so you can compare them to syadasti's and make the choice that is right for you.

syadasti · Mar 3, 2008

Most end-users don't upgrade their system other than minor things like memory, storage, add-in cards which is fine on prebuilt (unless you run out of expansion slots). Businesses do the same in managed IT environments.

By the time you upgrade everything its easily more cost effective to buy a whole new system which will be better as standards change and just reusing your old parts will make things slower or even cause compatibility issues in some cases.

A majority of video professionals use macs which are more limited upgrade wise and it works just fine there too.

Neither motherboard and chipset on either motherboard would not be found in decent video editing PC workstation.

Ciaran · Mar 3, 2008

syadasti said:
If the OS has been reinstalled/key activated recently the activation won't work over the Internet and you'll have to call for a code and unless you lie they won't give you one if you tell them what you are doing.

There are activation workarounds but those sometimes break with OS updates.

Do you argue just to hear yourself argue? Or can you just not think of anything positive to say?

I offered a workaround. Provided all needed circumstanes are met it will work... just like any WORKAROUND. And I know that this workaround works because I have done it many times. I have also had keys that didn't work because they were used too recently or too often. Know what I did with them? I saved them and waited. Guess what? They worked again! On systems without a dell part in sight no less.

Hey Woo, if it doesn't work I'll send you an unused key and matching disc. At best it saves you the cost of a new OS. At worst you have wasted a little time and effort trying to make it work.

Whether or not you are OK reusing an OEM CD is up to you. That's between you, MS, and the EULA.

syadasti · Mar 3, 2008

Ciaran said:
Or can you just not think of anything positive to say?

Further clarifying the activation process is not being negative or positive. If he has reinstalled/reactivated recently he should be aware that it won't go as planned. Now that he knows he could avoid frustration if he decides to choose that route (and contact you for your offered help) which I'm sure anyone would appreciate.

Got new ram, storage and video card......now tell me what motherboard and processor

Artisanal Tweet Curator

Master Dildoist

Expert on blowing

Artisanal Tweet Curator

i heart mac

Artisanal Tweet Curator

i heart mac

i heart mac

i heart mac

i heart mac

i heart mac

Artisanal Tweet Curator

i heart mac

i heart mac

Master Dildoist

The voice of reason

Cranky Pants

i heart mac

i heart mac

The voice of reason

i heart mac

Artisanal Tweet Curator

Fear my banana

i heart mac

i heart mac

Fear my banana

i heart mac

The voice of reason

i heart mac

Fear my banana

i heart mac

Artisanal Tweet Curator