Unfortunately I cannot. I've never ridden any of the production X-Fusion forks.
got the new pike...
- Thread starter manhattanprjkt83
- Start date
Not the same segment or dampers, but my friend has the Vengeance and the Lyrik RC2DH. He likes his Lyrik more than the Vengeance, better small bump sensitivity...
not really a RS dude, but i thought about that as well. as long as the dia for the footnuts is the same, i dont see why not!
it would make an already awesome fork even better
i was chatting about this w/ a friend... re 15 vs 20mm axle
new platform should be just as stiff. between the larger stanchions and the tapered steerer it should offset the lack of 20mm axle (compared to the old pike)
new platform should be just as stiff. between the larger stanchions and the tapered steerer it should offset the lack of 20mm axle (compared to the old pike)
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Stiffness is only part of wanting to go with 20mm but its more about 15mm being stoopid and I only want 1 sized front hub for all my bikes. Oh yeah, and 15mm is stoopid on top of that. I wonder how well my opinion is coming across on the internutz, should I use more emoticons? 15mm may be enough stiff but why not have 20mm and have penultimate stiffy?
Buddy of mine has one of these coming for his Bronson, I may ask him if I can try my Lyrik lowers on it.
Buddy of mine has one of these coming for his Bronson, I may ask him if I can try my Lyrik lowers on it.
if you have a 20mm hadley you can get a 15mm conversion kit for it.
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Oh snap! That's good to know for future reference. Like others, I don't have an issue w/15mm per say, it's just that I have all 20mm front wheels now so switching up forks is really expensive. I do have a set of Mavic Crossmax and I love that the rear can be converted from 140x12 to 135x12 to 135x9 and quite easily I might add. I've already used all three conversions between two different bikes.
I think that your Crossmax wheels should be able to accommodate being converted from 20mm to 15mm as well.
Complaining about 15mm axles is sooo 2008, common guys we need to be complaining about wheel sizes.
but but but you'll save almost 50 grams going to a 15mm platform. Totally worth it says no one.
Stanchion spacing would have to be the same too.not really a RS dude, but i thought about that as well. as long as the dia for the footnuts is the same, i dont see why not!
it would make an already awesome fork even better
Not saying it won't work, I have no idea.
FWIW, I weigh about 200 in gear and ride AZ rocks. I can't tell any difference in stiffness between 15 and 20 front axles.
Then you're not riding fast enough! Sorry, had to be said...
Doubt it, the 20mm axle makes fork wheel interface a little better, but it doesn't improve fore-aft at all or lateral flex much, all of which causes binding. All of the things that counter those (big crown/steerer, big stanchions, beefy arch, etc) help with countering the torsional flex, and while a QR axle is pretty sorry and leaves a big hole in the system, I don't think there's a big difference in the system between a 15 or 20mm axle as far as torsional flex/binding. It's not like the fork is that rigid that it's really making a difference.
I remember back when we had some QR double crown forks like the Xvert and Jr T, and those were miles stiffer than any 20mm single crown fork available at the time...possibly still (not counting the SID XL...that was just a disaster). This leads me to believe that a bigger axle does not reduce independent leg twisting all that much (duh). What really makes a difference IMO is tapered steerers with huge 1.5 lowers and big stanchions. I'd rather have a much more solid fork in this respect and the 15mm axle than a 34mm stanchioned 150mm travel fox with a 20mm axle, and the pike appears to deliver with a beefy lower crown, bigger stanchions, etc.
20mm would be nice, but I'm not complaining about 15mm. It's one area where I Think no one could tell if blindfolded and testing various axles on forks.
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No need to guess with the last generation of AM forks. The results of the German BIKE magazine test compared a 15mm Fox 34 and 20mm Revelation (32mm), both in 29er format. The Fox was 15% stiffer for braking forces and Rockshox was 10% stiffer when torsion is applied (steering).
http://forums.mtbr.com/29er-bikes/fox-34-vs-rock-shox-stiffness-tested-755047.html
http://forums.mtbr.com/29er-bikes/fox-34-vs-rock-shox-stiffness-tested-755047.html
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And you seem to be a dick! Sorry, had to be said ...
Maybe I missed the latest memo, but hating 15mm was not necessarily about having a flexy fork, but having manufacturers foist another standard on us that doesn't improve anything but does force us into buying another wheel/hub/setup. The 15mm axle is also narrower by 10mm, almost specifically to reduce compatibility between already existing setups. Anything that reduces compatibility without improving performance is a step backwards....a step that a company that also makes hubs would profit off of.
Or maybe it's to make it stiffer! j/k
There were already 150mm bolt-through 12mm rear hubs, but did everybody get their panties in a bind about 142mm?
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Yes, actually people did complain about 142. I know I did.
its another "standard" thats completely unnecessary. It just added tabs so muppets could slide their wheels back in easier. Great thats nice and all, but it also a) cost more to buy adaptors, or a new hub if your hub didn't have adaptors and b) reduced the ability to swap wheels between multiple bikes. FOR NO REASON.
15mm is horse**** designed to appease riders that are too stupid to recognize the benefits of 20mm over QR. Its for riders who won't leave QR for 20mm because of the weight benefits, but will jump to 15mm for the same benefits and this misguided belief that they are saving a whole bunch of weight over 20mm.
It makes me sad that so many riders can't see how stupid this kind of crap is. Instead, they gobble it up with both hands.
its another "standard" thats completely unnecessary. It just added tabs so muppets could slide their wheels back in easier. Great thats nice and all, but it also a) cost more to buy adaptors, or a new hub if your hub didn't have adaptors and b) reduced the ability to swap wheels between multiple bikes. FOR NO REASON.
15mm is horse**** designed to appease riders that are too stupid to recognize the benefits of 20mm over QR. Its for riders who won't leave QR for 20mm because of the weight benefits, but will jump to 15mm for the same benefits and this misguided belief that they are saving a whole bunch of weight over 20mm.
It makes me sad that so many riders can't see how stupid this kind of crap is. Instead, they gobble it up with both hands.
isn't 157 the special needs version of the 150mm hub? 142 was just a 135 with a shoulder, because trek needed to make it easier to get hubs in their ABP rear ends. 150 is completely different spacing than 142.
but that's all besides the point. 15mm does nothing that 20mm couldn't do with good design work.
I'll be the first to admit that I love 142x12. I've had it on two bikes and had a standard QR dropout bike in between the two and I'll never go back to QR. I'm not throwing a fit over 15mm anymore because I exhausted that bitchfest 4-5 years ago when 15mm debuted. My current bike is my first 15mm and that's only because it came stock that way. I really love the look of the new Pike and seeing as my wheel is already 15mm it's a non-issue. Gonna wait a little longer to hear some durability reviews before I jump on it, I've been burned by being an early adopter more than once.
I had a CK hub on a 2005 Enduro with the "fun bolts". Picked up a Mojo HD last year that's 142x12. Maybe it's a bike thing, but I found the Enduro to be marginally stiffer with the fun bolts. Though I have to say 135x12 was stupid and 142x12 is just fine. Certainly easier to remove than the fun bolts.
I agree with Dropmachine about 15mm, but what are you gonna do?! The future is here and 20mm is being abandoned from trail forks. It sucks, but it's here and I gotta deal with it.
btw, Dropmachine, are you still lovin your Vengeance?
I agree with Dropmachine about 15mm, but what are you gonna do?! The future is here and 20mm is being abandoned from trail forks. It sucks, but it's here and I gotta deal with it.
btw, Dropmachine, are you still lovin your Vengeance?
I actually just got the new 2013 Vengeance, and so far Im super happy. Bit of teething pains to start, but I am getting it all dialed in slowly. Its nice and smooth, and feels a bit more progressive than the older model i had. The DLA feature is neat too.
Hell of a fork for the money thats for sure.
Hell of a fork for the money thats for sure.
you have king hubs and you're complaining about price??
wasn't it syntace with their x-12 axle system that introduced it?
Yeah, all the money is now gone
Actually, I bought this as a used wheel that was in need of service.... rebuilt it and serviced the hub. Running good as new again. I just refuse to pay as much for a new axle as I paid for the hub – thankfully there's no substantive reason to do so.
Well, you're kinda answering yourself here mate. Although I believe you made a honest mistake. When you said the industry changed the standard for no reason. The industry has their reasons for doing so, with the one you exposed being the most obvious: force a market segmentation. Then as you said you won't be able to swap components between the actual bikes in your quiver. This tendency is being enforced by every bit of the bike industry, with the actual wheel diameter trends as its workhorse. As I said before, remember those days when you could have a pretty decent do-it-all bike, that one you'd just swap wheels and maybe the stem for lighter ones when you felt like XCing, and for burlier ones when you felt more DH oriented? Well, sadly those days are over. Now your XC rig will come with 29" wheels, your AM/Enduro one with 27.5 and the DH one will be sporting your old 26-inch hoops. Add to that mix the different axle/hub standards and you'll be forced to run a bike shop just to maintain your own bikes...
If you're not a lemming you won't be forced to do any of that.
Remember those days? You mean like today? My bike is exactly what you describe and you can go out and buy one right now. Funny how this thread about a cool new fork turned into a tinfoil hat, chicken little, new standards suck moan-fest. Way to go people
Well this is RM after allRemember those days? You mean like today? My bike is exactly what you describe and you can go out and buy one right now. Funny how this thread about a cool new fork turned into a tinfoil hat, chicken little, new standards suck moan-fest. Way to go people
my xc bike, trail bike, and dh bike are all still 26".
this^^ there is no value add. luckily there are still a small handful of forks that are trail worthy that still use a 20mm....for now. i have several quality 20mm front wheels that will last me a while that will be worthless when I can't run a 20mm for trail and they are too light for DH.
same as above, just more attitude
oh snap, my bad for contributing to that. to bring it full circle, RS lost my money since the Pike (the fork this thread is about) is in that stupid-a$$ 15mm format. this fork would be perfect for my V2 spitty if it had 20mm.Remember those days? You mean like today? My bike is exactly what you describe and you can go out and buy one right now. Funny how this thread about a cool new fork turned into a tinfoil hat, chicken little, new standards suck moan-fest. Way to go people
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I'm not saying I'm going to simply apply this policy. I'm saying the bike industry is taking these decisions not in the name of progress and improvement, but in the name of a bigger income. Right now I'm more concerned about not being able to buy a decent 26-inch 150mm travel frame before they completely vanish from the face of the world, but maybe I'm being too paranoid. What I'm saying is market segmentation is here, and maybe not today, or not tomorrow, but some day near the big names in the game are preparing to ditch 26 inches into the FR/DH/DJ niches.
Getting somewhat back on topic, I used to ride a 20mm Marzocchi, and a couple of Rock Shox with the same axle diameter in several trail and DJ bikes. When I jumped to an AM rig I got out of 20mm options, at least in my limited financial ballpark, so I had to switch to 15QR-equipped forks. So far I have been on a Marz 44 and lately on a RS Revelation, and I couldn't agree more with Jm when he says a bigger axle doesn't compensate a flexy crown, spaghetti stanchions or a twisty arch. The Revelation feels WAY stiffer than the 44, and both of them use some sort of 15QR axle.
That said, does the new Pike have asymmetrical lowers? Or was it the new revelation the one with that feature? Also, I like the concept of the Charger damper, and how it's supposed to be retrofittable.
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So anyway, about the new Pike... anybody know the a-c? Is it a lot more than a 150mm Revelation?
So since my fork is the solo air version, looks like there may be a chance to place a spacer in there...yes no? Buddy and I were looking at some diagrams and it appears so. could be wrong though.
Nobody will answer a normal genuine question here like that as I have already posted the same question. They are too busy building a fort to protect themselves from NEW INDUSTRY STANDARDS while hoarding 26 inch wheels and reading anal probing prevention pamphlets.
so guys, this may sound far fetched, but do you think this forced market segmentation is a government plot to distract us from the real problem, which is that LBJ had JFK assassinated and then through a series of mishaps and coverups by proceeding presidents, it eventually got to the point that GWB had to order 911 because we were about to expose the biggest coverup in history, and then as that got more out of control maybe obama ordered the bike industry to do this so that we'd change our focus?
I'm pretty sure that's a much more likely reason then because they think it'll make our lives more convenient in the long run, or that they can convince a group that would have resisted change to make a change for the improvement of their bicycles without too much fuss. And no, I'm not talking about the 1% tiny DH market guys, I'm referring to the XC/trail bike guys that make up the majority of MTB sales that were previously riding QR, and resisted the switch to 20mm because that was for DH bikes. I'm glad I can visit ridemonkey and meet all these people who share a similarly minded view Big Bike Industry (BBI™
plots.
I'm pretty sure that's a much more likely reason then because they think it'll make our lives more convenient in the long run, or that they can convince a group that would have resisted change to make a change for the improvement of their bicycles without too much fuss. And no, I'm not talking about the 1% tiny DH market guys, I'm referring to the XC/trail bike guys that make up the majority of MTB sales that were previously riding QR, and resisted the switch to 20mm because that was for DH bikes. I'm glad I can visit ridemonkey and meet all these people who share a similarly minded view Big Bike Industry (BBI™
plots.