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Gotta love those crazy Muslim clerics...

N8 v2.0

Not the sharpest tool in the shed
Oct 18, 2002
11,003
149
The Cleft of Venus
:rolleyes:

Afghan Clerics Demand Convert Be Killed
By DANIEL COONEY, Associated Press Writer
1 hour, 3 minutes ago


Senior Muslim clerics demanded Thursday that an Afghan man on trial for converting from Islam to Christianity be executed, warning that if the government caves in to Western pressure and frees him, they will incite people to "pull him into pieces."

In an unusual move, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice telephoned President Hamid Karzai on Thursday seeking a "favorable resolution" of the case of Abdul Rahman. The 41-year-old former medical aid worker faces the death penalty under Afghanistan's Islamic laws for becoming a Christian.

His trial has fired passions in this conservative Muslim nation and highlighted a conflict of values between Afghanistan and its Western backers.

"Rejecting Islam is insulting God. We will not allow God to be humiliated. This man must die," said cleric Abdul Raoulf, who is considered a moderate and was jailed three times for opposing the Taliban before the hard-line regime was ousted in 2001.

The trial, which began last week, has caused an international outcry. President Bush has said he is "deeply troubled" by the case and expects the country to "honor the universal principle of freedom."

Rice spokesman Sean McCormack said she told Karzai it is important for the Afghan people to know that freedom of religion is observed in their country. But in deference to the country's sovereignty, Rice evidently did not demand specifically that the trial be halted and the defendant released.

"This is clearly an Afghan decision," McCormack said. "They are a sovereign country."

Still, Rice's direct appeal to a foreign leader in a judicial proceeding in their own country is an unusual move.

German Chancellor Angela Merkel told reporters she had received assurances from Karzai in a telephone call that Rahman would not be sentenced to death.

"I have the impression that he (Karzai) has a firm willingness" to abide by the human rights requirements, Merkel said going into pre-European Union summit talks. "I hope we will be able to resolve this."

Diplomats have said the Afghan government is searching for a way to drop the case. On Wednesday, authorities said Rahman is suspected of being mentally ill and would undergo psychological examinations to see whether he is fit to stand trial.

But three Sunni preachers and a Shiite one interviewed by The Associated Press in four of Kabul's most popular mosques said they do not believe Rahman is insane.

"He is not crazy. He went in front of the media and confessed to being a Christian," said Hamidullah, chief cleric at Haji Yacob Mosque.

"The government is scared of the international community. But the people will kill him if he is freed."

Raoulf, who is a member of the country's main Islamic organization, the Afghan Ulama Council, agreed. "The government is playing games. The people will not be fooled."

"Cut off his head!" he exclaimed, sitting in a courtyard outside Herati Mosque. "We will call on the people to pull him into pieces so there's nothing left."

He said the only way for Rahman to survive would be for him to go into exile.

But Said Mirhossain Nasri, the top cleric at Hossainia Mosque, one of the largest Shiite places of worship in Kabul, said Rahman must not be allowed to leave the country.

"If he is allowed to live in the West, then others will claim to be Christian so they can too," he said. "We must set an example. ... He must be hanged."

The clerics said they were angry with the United States and other countries for pushing for Rahman's freedom.

"We are a small country and we welcome the help the outside world is giving us. But please don't interfere in this issue," Nasri said. "We are Muslims and these are our beliefs. This is much more important to us than all the aid the world has given us."

Afghanistan's constitution is based on Shariah law, which is interpreted by many Muslims to require that any Muslim who rejects Islam be sentenced to death.

Hamidullah warned that if the government frees Rahman, "there will be an uprising" like one against Soviet occupying forces in the 1980s.

"The government will lose the support of the people," he said. "What sort of democracy would it be if the government ignored the will of all the people."

Meanwhile, human rights group Amnesty International said if Rahman has been detained solely for his religious beliefs, he would be a "prisoner of conscience."

"The charges against him should be dropped and if necessary he should be protected against any abuses within the community," the London-based group said in a statement.

Rahman is believed to have lived in Germany for nine years after converting to Christianity while working as a medical aid worker for an international Christian group helping Afghan refugees in Pakistan. He returned to Kabul in 2002.

It was not immediately clear when Rahman's trial will resume. Authorities have barred attempts by the AP to see him and he is not believed to have a lawyer.
 

LordOpie

MOTHER HEN
Oct 17, 2002
21,022
3
Denver
Muslims will not be free to be Muslims until they are free to not be Muslims.

(paraphrasing a quote from the last Ender's Game book.)
 

Andyman_1970

Turbo Monkey
Apr 4, 2003
3,105
5
The Natural State
So what do we do when they conflict with each other? How do we live harmoniously with differing belief systems?

Isn't respecting religious beliefs a two way street? Or if someone holds beliefs that they can kill those who defect vs. someone who does not hold that, does the one with the "kill" beliefs win?
 

Silver

find me a tampon
Jul 20, 2002
10,840
1
Orange County, CA
Andyman_1970 said:
So what do we do when they conflict with each other? How do we live harmoniously with differing belief systems?
We don't. When two irrational belief systems meet, and at least one of the belief holders is fervent enough, we kill each other.

At least that's what the FSM keeps whispering in my ear...
 

Changleen

Paranoid Member
Jan 9, 2004
14,895
2,861
Pōneke
Andyman_1970 said:
So what do we do when they conflict with each other? How do we live harmoniously with differing belief systems?
You just examine them both rationally and see which one holds up to testable hypothesis best. Discard the looser. :rolleyes: :)

Isn't respecting religious beliefs a two way street? Or if someone holds beliefs that they can kill those who defect vs. someone who does not hold that, does the one with the "kill" beliefs win?
Only if they are backed to the tune of a few billion a year by the US government and manipulate the media.
 

DaveW

Space Monkey
Jul 2, 2001
11,731
3,221
The bunker at parliament
Andyman_1970 said:
So the belief system that advocates killing those outside that system would eventually win?

It worked for christians so far (especialy for the first one and a half thousand years).... but you lost your balls over the last couple of centurys and now the Islamic religion is meaner and hungier than you lot.
 

Nobody

Danforth Kitchen Whore
Sep 5, 2001
1,511
58
Toronto
"Rejecting Islam is insulting God. We will not allow God to be humiliated. This man must die," said cleric Abdul Raoulf, who is considered a moderate and was jailed three times for opposing the Taliban before the hard-line regime was ousted in 2001.
It's impossible to 'humiliate' God. God is not an old bearded man living in the sky who asks for money.

God is not a man.

God is not human.

God is f'n God, you primitive, ignorant jackasses.
 

BurlyShirley

Rex Grossman Will Rise Again
Jul 4, 2002
19,180
17
TN
Nobody said:
It's impossible to 'humiliate' God. God is not an old bearded man living in the sky who asks for money.

God is not a man.

God is not human.

God is f'n God, you primitive, ignorant jackasses.
Not to say that you're wrong, but the translation of that quote could have skewed its meaning a bit. "Humiliate" may be the closest word to what he actuallymeant in whatever durk language he was speaking.
 

valve bouncer

Master Dildoist
Feb 11, 2002
7,843
114
Japan
The Amish said:
THats what all those years of camel humpin will do to ya
I know it shouldn't but that made me laugh.
Memo to all frothers- if you're gonna be a complete dickhead then at least be a funny dickhead.
 

$tinkle

Expert on blowing
Feb 12, 2003
14,591
6
i'll just leave this here:


this guy's got more in common w/ lady gaga than anyone else i've heard
 

$tinkle

Expert on blowing
Feb 12, 2003
14,591
6
Sodomy "For the Sake of Islam"
Not only did the original "underwear bomber" Abdullah Hassan al-Asiri hide explosives in his rectum to assassinate Saudi Prince Muhammad bin Nayef—they met in 2009 after the 22-year-old holy warrior "feigned repentance for his jihadi views"—but al-Asiri apparently had fellow jihadis repeatedly sodomize him to "widen" his anus in order to accommodate the explosives— all in accordance with the fatwas [religious edicts] of Islamic clerics.

A 2010 Arabic news video that is making the rounds on the Internet gives the details. Apparently a cleric, one Abu al-Dema al-Qasab, informed jihadis of an "innovative and unprecedented way to execute martyrdom operations: place explosive capsules in your anus. However, to undertake this jihadi approach you must agree to be sodomized for a while to widen your anus so it can hold the explosives."

Others inquired further by asking for formal fatwas. Citing his desire for "martyrdom and the virgins of paradise," one jihadi, (possibly al-Asiri himself) asked another sheikh, "Is it permissible for me to let one of the jihadi brothers sodomize me to widen my anus if the intention is good?"

After praising Allah, the sheikh's fatwa began by declaring that sodomy is forbidden in Islam,

However, jihad comes first, for it is the pinnacle of Islam, and if the pinnacle of Islam can only be achieved through sodomy, then there is no wrong in it. For the overarching rule of [Islamic] jurisprudence asserts that "necessity makes permissible the prohibited." And if obligatory matters can only be achieved by performing the prohibited, then it becomes obligatory to perform the prohibited, and there is no greater duty than jihad. After he sodomizes you, you must ask Allah for forgiveness and praise him all the more. And know that Allah will reward the jihadis on the Day of Resurrection, according to their intentions—and your intention, Allah willing, is for the victory of Islam, and we ask that Allah accept it of you.
these guys aren't terribly original - didn't the catholics first coin the whole "take it in the ass for God" tactic?
 

the law

Monkey
Jun 25, 2002
267
0
where its at
i'll just leave this here:


this guy's got more in common w/ lady gaga than anyone else i've heard
Quote: "an anal disease, which could be cured only by semen. One should know that this is a well-known medical condition, which is also mentioned in sacred texts."

I couldn't make this **** up if I tried. These guys have a fantastic imagination.