Gotta stir the pot, Chris King outboard bottom brackets???

Westy · Jan 30, 2006

Is ther any standard between the existing external BBs? If not it would be silly for them to try.

binary visions · Jan 30, 2006

It'll be out right after the 1.5" headset.

Chris King's development cycle is slower than Anna Nicole Smith's train of thought.

Zoso · Jan 30, 2006

Phil Wood offers replacement bearings for XTR outboard cup bb's. There like $25 a piece, but if they hold up like other Phil Wood bearings, the money's worth it. That's about as close to CK bb as you'll get.

-dustin · Jan 30, 2006

i bet it would be more than $100

Zark · Jan 30, 2006

Chris King will come out with a production bottom bracket at exact point the world ends.

He is such a perfectionist that each time he has the design dialed, they change everything Square taper>ISIS, inboard>outboard.

I don't expect King to ever change in this respect and no one will stop and agree to an industry standard accepted enough for King to pusue it.

How many new products has King offered in the last three years? I'm guessing none

Westy · Jan 30, 2006

Zark said:
Chris King will come out with a production bottom bracket at exact point the world ends.

He is such a perfectionist that each time he has the design dialed, they change everything Square taper>ISIS, inboard>outboard.

I don't expect King to ever change in this respect and no one will stop and agree to an industry standard accepted enough for King to pusue it.

How many new products has King offered in the last three years? I'm guessing none

I think the hat design may have changed. I could be wrong though.

narlus · Jan 30, 2006

when did the 20mm front hub come out?

stinkyboy · Jan 30, 2006

Zoso said:
Phil Wood offers replacement bearings for XTR outboard cup bb's. There like $25 a piece, but if they hold up like other Phil Wood bearings, the money's worth it. That's about as close to CK bb as you'll get.

My LBS said the same thing when I picked up my new Saints last week.

Westy · Jan 30, 2006

Actually I think they offer a hub for the Maverick fork. Not exactly a big redesign but something new.

binary visions · Jan 30, 2006

narlus said:
when did the 20mm front hub come out?

I think it came out in 2001.

That's a long time without a new product :rolleyes:

edit: Oh, yeah, the 24mm Maverick hub. Not exactly a radical new product, and only for an extremely limited market. I wonder how big the inner diameter of the bearings are in the 20mm hub, and if he just slapped a couple new end caps in there?

buildyourown · Jan 30, 2006

Yeah, King really isn't a very good business man in that respect. If they made a TA rear hub they could have a signifigant chunk of that market. Instead, everyone who wants a top of the line hub buys a Hadley.
There was at least 5 years there where he could have been selling square tapered BBs hand over fist. He missed the boat.

Ciaran · Jan 30, 2006

Zoso said:
Phil Wood offers replacement bearings for XTR outboard cup bb's. There like $25 a piece, but if they hold up like other Phil Wood bearings, the money's worth it. That's about as close to CK bb as you'll get.

Now there's a death match I'd like to see... Phil Wood vs. Chris King.

-dustin · Jan 30, 2006

wasn't king one of the founding fathers of ISIS? if he can't believe in his own stuff, i would consider it odd to see him jump aboard something else.

Westy · Jan 30, 2006

manhattanprjkt83 said:
I know they are slow as hell, but the outboard bearing is basically a headset...I mean they have to realize that this technology is going to be around for a while...

Until Bike makers just start doing what should be done, larger diameter BB shells.

binary visions · Jan 30, 2006

Westy said:
Until Bike makers just start doing what should be done, larger diameter BB shells.

Remember FSA's MegaTech bottom brackets that they tried to push a couple/few years ago? Talk about a spectacular failure.

I think these external bearing bottom brackets are a pretty good solution to the problem.

-dustin · Jan 30, 2006

isn't there an ISIS OverDrive, too? or something like that

Westy · Jan 30, 2006

binary visions said:
Remember FSA's MegaTech bottom brackets that they tried to push a couple/few years ago? Talk about a spectacular failure.

I think these external bearing bottom brackets are a pretty good solution to the problem.

It may have been a market failure but it could have been a good technical solution. If a solution can be found to make things easier on the bike manufacturer it just might get picked up.

binary visions · Jan 30, 2006

Westy said:
It may have been a market failure but it could have been a good technical solution.

I agree - I didn't mean the product was a failure in and of itself, just that it was never picked up.

As things get further along with the external bearing solution, the need might not be as strong for a larger BB. We'll see. I don't know what the failure rate with this new design is.

JRB · Jan 30, 2006

I've wanted to try this, but it seems impossible to get when I try.

JRB · Jan 30, 2006

manhattanprjkt83 said:
I guess i really did stir the pot. I guess I just dont understand the business logic of a company with such a loyal following to not make atleast 1 more product they know people would fight over...

I don't think I understand, or agree, with King's practices. It seems to me that they are at capacity and drive productuction with costs. If they had capacity, they would try to do more. I do admire the fact that they seem so dedicated to quality. I think the hubs are overpriced, and require too much adjustment in the beginning for those that are not so in tune with mechanics. That, of course, is just my opinion.

Westy · Jan 30, 2006

binary visions said:
Remember FSA's MegaTech bottom brackets that they tried to push a couple/few years ago? Talk about a spectacular failure.

I think these external bearing bottom brackets are a pretty good solution to the problem.

LBS tells me they have had problems with the XTR, seems a good explaination why Paul makes replacements.

binary visions · Jan 30, 2006

Westy said:
LBS tells me they have had problems with the XTR, seems a good explaination why Paul makes replacements.

I heard that as well but I don't really factor that into the failure rate. The rate that the XTRs seem to be failing at seems to be higher than can be attributed to standard wear, seems more like bad bearings/design.

Wonder if there will be a quiet tweaking of the design?

sanjuro · Jan 30, 2006

binary visions said:
I heard that as well but I don't really factor that into the failure rate. The rate that the XTRs seem to be failing at seems to be higher than can be attributed to standard wear, seems more like bad bearings/design.

Wonder if there will be a quiet tweaking of the design?

Yeah, my shop bought 10 sets of Phil Wood bearings. I was about to give the owner crap for buying something so esoteric, but then he told me he sold 8 since Interbike....

Westy · Jan 30, 2006

binary visions said:
I heard that as well but I don't really factor that into the failure rate. The rate that the XTRs seem to be failing at seems to be higher than can be attributed to standard wear, seems more like bad bearings/design.

Wonder if there will be a quiet tweaking of the design?

Just a personal observation but it seems that any external BB setup is going to be very sensitive to the alignment of the bearings. I wouldn't consider a MTB to be a very precise piece of equipment. I wonder if the XTR system is just more sensitive to such things and suffering from it.

JRB · Jan 30, 2006

Yeah - cup tolerances seem like they would cause trouble, but I don't think it's the frame so much as the cups.

OGRipper · Jan 30, 2006

Chris King is currently working on a headset bearing that will replace your entire bike. It's that good.

That is all.

SilentJ · Jan 30, 2006

loco said:
Yeah - cup tolerances seem like they would cause trouble, but I don't think it's the frame so much as the cups.

I've wanted to try the Profile Evolution BB on my Toy. Granted, it's for bmx shells, but I'm sure a similar system could be made to work with the mtb shell. Of course at lease one side of the shell would have to be unthreaded..

blue · Jan 30, 2006

But is a CK external bb really needed? Don't get me wrong, nothing's perfect, but has anyone had major external BB issues yet (Enough to justify a horribly expensive[in theory] alternative?) My XTs have a ton of miles on them and have yet to whimper...

syadasti · Jan 30, 2006

SilentJ said:
I've wanted to try the Profile Evolution BB on my Toy. Granted, it's for bmx shells, but I'm sure a similar system could be made to work with the mtb shell. Of course at lease one side of the shell would have to be unthreaded..

I wish these would come out already...

Supercross was working on a new set of cranks that are supposed to be half a pound lighter than traditional Profiles and twice as stiff as Shimano's Saint cranks.

http://www.bmxonline.com/bmx/biz/article/0,15737,1068954,00.html

Code-named "Sinner", these are 100% tubular chromoly and have a lot less hardware than many of the traditional brands currently on the market. The BB bearings are also slightly larger than regular Euro BB bearings, but will still work on all frames with a Euro BB shell.

OGRipper · Jan 30, 2006

Damn those look pretty sweet, I was wondering when someone was going to make a steel set like that, if for no other reason than to save a little weight over regular profiles, redlines, etc.

syadasti · Jan 30, 2006

OGRipper said:
Damn those look pretty sweet, I was wondering when someone was going to make a steel set like that, if for no other reason than to save a little weight over regular profiles, redlines, etc.

Yah, they weigh the same as Saints only they are twice as stiff.

Qman · Jan 30, 2006

CK's website says they're developing an 'all new' ISIS bottom bracket.....They also say that their facing tool and reamer set is the best yet when I inquire, they say they don't have any to sell and won't in the foreseeable future. I guess they don't update their website very often bcz they make it sound like they're ready to ship.

I'd only buy a CK bottom bracket if it could somehow generate the opposite soundwave to cancel out the noisey CK rear hubs of those riding near me.

-dustin · Jan 30, 2006

the King ISIS BB has been in development for...i don't know..4yrs now?

Reactor · Jan 30, 2006

In the meantime, I'm having pretty good luck with raceface external bottom brackets. I suspect the XT/XTR's are good bearings overall, but the Raceface BB's use larger diameter bearings and seem to hold up to abuse better.

sanjuro · Jan 30, 2006

The real solution is the widen the BB shell, ala Cannondale's Hollowgram. I think Specialized is going to use it for its 2007 carbon frames...

JRB · Jan 30, 2006

sanjuro said:
The real solution is the widen the BB shell, ala Cannondale's Hollowgram. I think Specialized is going to use it for its 2007 carbon frames...

I agree. I have had ISIS BBs with extra bearings, and they seem good. I don't recall which one. More bearing surface = less bearing load.

Gotta stir the pot, Chris King outboard bottom brackets???

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