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Government Jumps

cmc

Turbo Monkey
Nov 17, 2006
2,061
6
austin
.... okay so the title may not be fair....

but this is an example of a government funded 'dirt jump park' that depresses me. straight lines. reminds me of hallways at work, desks at school...... for goddsake if a gov't is gonna get involved they need to realise that freedom of design is the essence. provide dirt and a spot.... designate a core group of rider-leaders and let them build from there and change it whenever they want to. no pre-fab dirt parks.





to be clear . . . i'm not hating on an enterprising rider/designer building *something* for people to ride.... just trying to encourage more creativity and rider input. i have no background on this specific spot or the designer, just my first impression from looking at it.
http://www.hoots.ca/skills_parks/stories/richmond_bike_park/
 

jonKranked

Press Button, Receive Stupid
Nov 10, 2005
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I totally agree with you, however, look at the big picture. This is definitely a good first step. Jumps in a straight line are better than no jumps. :cheers:
 
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JGill

Monkey
Jul 7, 2008
289
0
Norman, OK
That's better than nothing. My town has a skatepark with pre-fab metal ramps that is the size of a 3 bedroom apartment. Super lame but it's all we have. No dirt jumps and no decent street spots and lots of bored cops with nothing else to do but "crack down on destruction of private property"...At least someone will have some dirt to ride around there.
 

Straya

Monkey
Jul 11, 2008
866
3
Straya
OK I dunno if you read the bio but Hootie is a Norco sponsored rider and not some grey government drone. That's not a dig at you but a comment that he is probably more than well aware that those jumps are not exactly aesthetically pleasing.

Dirt jumps up here (and probably worldwide I suspect) are relatively new business for local governments, they don't really 'get' Dirt Jumping and are really really scared of liability BLAH BLAH BLAH. The idea of them not being able to control that liability by having other people modify them scares some people. This is not an insurmountable problem and I know it does happen in some areas that riders modify/maintain the jumps but for some local governments its such a new thing that they just want professionally built and tangible things and that's what Jay provides.

Other comments, particularly on the "lines of jumps" thing. Hoots builds skills parks that are essentially aimed at beginners. They are a safe learning environment where people can develop their skills and progress gradually. The lines of jumps are graded in difficulty and clearly marked so that riders can slowly build up to bigger lines as they get skills and confidence over time. The kind of riders who use these parks are young kids (like really really young) as a general rule and most of his parks have sets of jumps that are tables only about 1 foot high and graduate to sets of tables that are 6-8 feet tall. All clearly signposted obviously.


Jay usually gets given some pretty crappy land as well, I've done many hours of vollie work at the North Vancouver one and it used to be tennis courts, heavy machinery was used to build the thing. And since a council was paying for it they needed tangible results for the considerable sums of cash that were put in to it. So the jumps got built in lines like the ones in your photos (space was also very limited). But over time regular riders have done work on the site and I have noticed some better riders shaping lips and things since the park was built.

One more interesting thing is that as he builds more of these parks and as the feedback gets better he gets more money, land and freedom to do better things. Some of his earlier parks were pretty small and crappy, but one of the latest on Burnaby mountain is really well received by riders.
http://bb.nsmb.com/showthread.php?t=111082

So yeah. That was a long winded way of saying baby steps baby steps when local governments build this kind of thing, not every site can be like the Post Office Jumps straight away.

Disclaimer-I am employed by a direct competitor of Jay.
 

aeffertz

Monkey
Jun 12, 2008
441
0
Ladysmith, WI
Yeah dude.
If they made crazy hips, and massive doubles, hardly anyone would ride there, and that's the truth. These are jumps, not trails.
I would love to have that over in my area.
 

jonKranked

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Nov 10, 2005
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straya pretty much hit the nail on the head.

This is basically a community park. It needs to be accessible by the majority of the riding community (in terms of skills/abilities), not a spot catered to expert riders. Is that to say there isn't a need for it? No. Give it time. This will allow more people to progress to a higher level of riding, and eventually there will be enough expert riders that a local gov't could probably justify a park catered to a more advanced group of riders.
 

kidwoo

Celebrating No-Pants Day
Aug 25, 2003
26,897
4,575
In my pants
Do you realize how many hips into adjacent lines you're looking at?




Go pack those sides down beyotch :D
 

cmc

Turbo Monkey
Nov 17, 2006
2,061
6
austin
straya, jonKranked.... i fully hear you .... and all respect.... esp. to builders such as hootie. plus...all respect to canadian spots in general which have been pushing gov't/public way more than USA.

but still . . . the aesthetics bothers me. i'm not opposed to beginner lines, to tables, to whatever makes something accessible...... but the reason for my post (is not directed at this particular builder or particular spot) but to the IDEA of what a "public" spot has to represent.

you do not need something this regimented to be a public spot. why not a broad s-curve on all 6 of those lines, each one in a parallel snake so there are hips? maybe some figure 8's? why not big drop-ins, wallrides, turn-around quarterpipes.... whatever? the point is that sometimes designers self-censor because of the perceived reception....they tailor the design to the linguistics of the city council with the power and the dollars and speak the go-along speak of "community park" "accessible" and proceed to make it ultra boring.

the fact is that jr. high kids are some of the most potentially creative people you will ever meet. adults (more specifically government)impose boring-order. kids want stuff they can ride. but they also want to aspire to rad ****, to get stoked on their spot and watch some expert riders tear it up.

even though a park should have accessible lines and elements and "safe environment" for kids.....there should always be some aspect that represents the cognitive dissonance and creative space that draws kids to alternative sports. why did a generation of 12 yr. olds get stoked on the movie RAD's "helltrack"? why did we trip out on the ANIMAL CHIN ramp or today's mega ramps, DC drop from a hellicopter, or street session on barcelona modernist architecture, or youtube videos of backyard pumptracks and secret trails.... all of that is essential. you water it down and sanitize it... you've done the sport a short-term benefit and a long-term disservice. i would argue the same about pre-fab skateparks. a skatepark/bikepark/freeride park should never be a basketball court.
 
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Straya

Monkey
Jul 11, 2008
866
3
Straya
you do not need something this regimented to be a public spot. why not a broad s-curve on all 6 of those lines, each one in a parallel snake so there are hips? maybe some figure 8's? why not big drop-ins, wallrides, turn-around quarterpipes.... whatever? the point is that sometimes designers self-censor because of the perceived reception....they tailor the design to the linguistics of the city council with the power and the dollars and speak the go-along speak of "community park" "accessible" and proceed to make it ultra boring.
I hear you too.

I suspect that that park is one of the early ones and that such things were a bit of a learning curve for the builders too.

Have a look at this thread too for the most recent park, it has a lot more of the features that you describe



Here is a shot of the park

and


and lots more pics here
 
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Savage_Animal

Monkey
Feb 3, 2008
658
0
Norcal
This is a park owned by the city of pleasenton I go to regular basis. Its pretty much rider maintained and theres hip lines and berms all over the place.



 

Straya

Monkey
Jul 11, 2008
866
3
Straya
Sweet. Do you work for Judd?
Nah, unfortunately that was another time and another country. I used to work for the guy who built CBC on the shore and we did some stuff for local governments and BC Hydro around the place but I'm back in Oz now.
 

sealclubber

Monkey
Nov 21, 2007
545
7
the only right way to do it is with no final plan in mind. dig as you go and avoid tree roots. ends up being infinitely creative
 

cmc

Turbo Monkey
Nov 17, 2006
2,061
6
austin
at first, its like "oh man thats crazy" then you stare at it some more and realize its all straight jumps and the berms are only there to slow you down after hitting the jumps (with exception of the pumptrack)
exactly.
 

TrAiLsLaYer

Chimp
Nov 19, 2010
5
0
Tuscon
yeah we gots some here in Tucson and i don't like them at all someone who made them doesn't understand that the more jumps you have done the faster you will be going. needing bigger farther apart jumps. i have to scrub speed off like crazy. and the other ones just aren't fun i ride them for 10 min and have had enough. and go home. so on that note anyone who knows of a good Private owned place to dig let me know. i might know some places on the east. pm me
 

pnj

Turbo Monkey till the fat lady sings
Aug 14, 2002
4,697
40
seattle
They look boring as fvck. No berms or hips?
Who designed these?

*on phone so can't see too well...
 

cmc

Turbo Monkey
Nov 17, 2006
2,061
6
austin
They look boring as fvck. No berms or hips?
Who designed these?

*on phone so can't see too well...
I can't tell exactly what's going on with the right line.... but if those are launches and landings where the gap distance is exactly equal to the distance from the landing to the next launch..... holy crap.






the replicating flatness of those tables..... i can't help thinking of Soviet architecture:
 
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