[fluff]

ya, it is called being a pussy.

You take advantage of what your country offers you for employment and training, and then when you are actually called to do you job, you decide you can't hack it and pull out. Don';t join the millitary if you dont want to go to war. It is simple.

You have zero argument, except to call a war stupid, and illegal. One of which is an objective claim, the other is by definition, correct but not in the way you use it.

As for going back to class...call me when you get yourself a PHD in international relations k? k great. In the mean time, go back to pumping gas.

Look, Changleen may be being a dick here but as people have died for being concientious objectors (firing squads less than 100 years ago in the UK), i.e. died for their beliefs, you are now making the same mistake as he is if you dismiss their beliefs.

And for Changleen - you cannot sign up and then suddenly get a conscience when an actual fire-fight comes along.

I hope that Falluja is stablised with minimal casualties and that the US/Iraqi forces prevent the insurgents from returning. The US may have 'broke it so they bought it' and I disagreed with the decision to invade but now we are there we need to bring stability or the civilians we all purport to care about will suffer more. This is a necessary operation in a war that is a fact, quit bleating about the invasion, it's done. As is the election.

 

[BurlyShirley]

, quit bleating about the invasion.

I believe bleating is getting to become a bigger and bigger part of his vocabulary :nuts:

 

[Btyler311]

OK, OK I know this will sound cold hearted an smacked up, and my cousin's husband and father of her two young kids is a marine over there, but this is probably the best thing to happen to our military in a long time.

Major ops like this, especially when its in a realatively rare (since Viet Nam) area like large scale urban warfare, set military doctrine and after analyzing it later allow us to learn a great deal about how best to fight it. I have to think that in the future this is exactly the sort of engagements we are most likely to face w ground troops.

I mean think about it, If they aren't in the city or mountains like Afganistan's Op Anaconda then they don't have cover, Well jungle warfare not withstanding, but still we can take em out quick from the air if they aren't in some kind of scenerio like this.

I just think 10 soldiers and I am deeply sorry for their families, but I think its a small price to pay for what we'll learn from it.

We are obviously doing a great job at it right now and we will get much better from this. This is like a major training operation.

I just hope we get that Jordanian SOB and he doesn't just become another Osama. I know they are saying he prolly slipped the noose.

Ty

 

[Changleen]

Wow - I can't believe the mutual cock-sucking that went on here after I left. Are you guys that unsure of position you need three of you to reasure each other your outburst of vitriol was justified?

Trancend and S1ngletrack - you just don't get it do you? My point was relativly simple I think:

1) This is a stupid and pointless war.
2) People should know better than to join in what is obviously a crusade for personal power and oil wealth in the middle east.

Instead all you can reply with is outrage and personal insults because I dared criticise the actions of the American Army! WTF? Please try and explain why it's OK for these people to participate in the killing of so many thousand Iraqis for NO good reason without criticism? You spout all this stuff about the families of the soldiers who are serving in Iraq without once considering the hundreds of thousands of families whose lives they have destroyed and torn appart in Iraq. Talk about double standards. Trancend - your post about people holding RPGs illustrates your intollerance of anyone who dares stand up to America. It's pretty pathetic and a great illustration of why everyone in the world thinks you're being complete assholes right now.

I mean seriously, I've read through this twice and I've yet to see where either of you made any point at all other than telling me to shut up because I'm wrong. For some reason you are incapable of critical thought when it comes to this issue. Hey, news flash - I don't give a **** what you think of me! All I care about is the pointless waste of life you have started and now insist on perpetuating in the middle east. At what point will America realise that the reason no-one wants to help them is that they all realised on day one that this was a joke of a war lead by a vicious idiot for personal gain? If half of America wasn't so willfully ignorant maybe they'd realise this too.

Trancend, you claim to be doing a PHD in International Relations - a fact you like to bring up nearly every time I run into you. (get over it, dude - you're not special) Despite this you seem utterly incapable of realising that my opinion is the tip of the iceberg of what most of the rest of the world thinks of this little killing spree you're on right now.

You claimed that soldiers should always just do what they're told. If you knew much about the army at all you'd also know it was part of an officer's remit to question his orders. Check out the history books. I also notice that the Pentagon doesn't mind when some of it's soldiers question their orders and then refuse to go on certain support missions in Iraq, or are they a special case too? If it's good enough for these guys why not everyone else?

This war, as well as being pointless and stupid is wrong and immoral because of that. Upto 100,000 Iraqis have died because of it. Is that number too big to mean anything to you? Do youunderstand what that makes people think about you? For some reason you and 50% of America think this is OK for some reason.

I question the actions of anyone who willingly participates in this twisted joke. It is obviously wrong to anyone with a shred of decency. Is that that hard to understand?

Edit: I note from the email I received from Ridemonkey that one of you tried to hack into my account yesterday following your little outbursts of unquestioning support for your warmonger leader. I guess that really highlights how pathetic you really are, Mr. 67.176.117.19.

 

[s1ngletrack]

Ah - that's cute, why don't you trace the IP if you're so up in arms about it - is it possible that it could've been a bystander perhaps?

So, what you're suggesting is that the war was wrong to begin with - and therefore, the US should just up and pull out of Iraq?

I never suggested that we should have started the war, you fvckwit - only that someone needs to see this through to completion, and that it is wrong for you to assume that every American over there is over there because they wish to push the "bloothirsty agenda" you've been ranting about.

 

[s1ngletrack]

So tell me, smart guy, how the f*** do you propose we end this conflict? You've clearly given a great deal of your time to considering the matter - what does a successful pull-out look like?

I know that you cannot be so naive as to think that we can just up and leave, and yet you choose to make blanket statements about everyone serving over there (did I ever even say that my brother was in the armed forces, wise guy? What if he was there performing humanitarian aid?) So, in all of your wisdom, how do you suggest that we remedy the situation?

 

[Changleen]

Ah - that's cute, why don't you trace the IP if you're so up in arms about it - is it possible that it could've been a bystander perhaps?

Guilty conscience?

So, what you're suggesting is that the war was wrong to begin with - and therefore, the US should just up and pull out of Iraq?

I used to be of the opinion that you should stay and finish what you've started, but I think it's now pretty obvious that you've only suceeded in making it way worse than ever. At this stage a withdrawal does look like a good option.

I never suggested that we should have started the war, you fvckwit

Jeeze, you really can't stop with the name calling can you? Hello? We're arguing on the Internet.

only that someone needs to see this through to completion, and that it is wrong for you to assume that every American over there is over there because they wish to push the "bloothirsty agenda" you've been ranting about.

Yeah, someone with a clue about how to do it without demonising the west to the rest of the world. That's clearly not the US. And I don't assume every American is oer there because they support Bush's stupid agenda, they are there because American society activley discourages most of them from even asking these questions and makes it difficult or impossible to question their leadership. Great going for a democracy. Did you see the picture of that soldier I posted with the crucifix on his gun? Seriously, could you explain to me what he was thinking when he put that on there? Or maybe he just didn't think? That's the problem!

 

[s1ngletrack]

Guilty conscience?

I used to be of the opinion that you should stay and finish what you've started, but I think it's now pretty obvious that you've only suceeded in making it way worse than ever. At this stage a withdrawal does look like a good option.

Jeeze, you really can't stop with the name calling can you? Hello? We're arguing on the Internet.Yeah, someone with a clue about how to do it without demonising the west to the rest of the world. That's clearly not the US. And I don't assume every American is oer there because they support Bush's stupid agenda, they are there because American society activley discourages most of them from even asking these questions and makes it difficult or impossible to question their leadership. Great going for a democracy. Did you see the picture of that soldier I posted with the crucifix on his gun? Seriously, could you explain to me what he was thinking when he put that on there? Or maybe he just didn't think? That's the problem!

Guilty conscience...classic.

You're right, one guy - out of hundreds of thousands of people over there, chooses to hang a rosary on the end of his 50 cal. - that makes the whole lot of them a bunch of arrogant bastards who do not deserve to return home to their families.

Demonising the west? Please - like you give a sh1t.

Run along now, play your bongo, grow your throat beard, smoke a bowl, and STFU.

 

[Changleen]

So tell me, smart guy, how the f*** do you propose we end this conflict? You've clearly given a great deal of your time to considering the matter - what does a successful pull-out look like?

The basic problem is that there can probably never be a sucessful pullout now, thank to the utter pigs ear that has been made of the operation. Maybe you should unilaterally withdraw, and Fox News can just lie to everyone in America that it was a complete sucess and that Democracy has started in the middle east and everyone loves America again. That would look like a sucessful pull out wouldn't it?

Seriously - at this stage - just get the troops out. Every day you spend just compounds the problem you have created. This war is possibly the greatest recruitment tool for Islamic terrorism the world has ever known. You need to admit the mistake and back away from it. Instead of spending 2 billion a week on troop support, give the money to the Iraqis and let them rebuild the country for themselves. They'll appreciate it more than the ongoing slaughter of their children and families, I'm sure.

I know that you cannot be so naive as to think that we can just up and leave, and yet you choose to make blanket statements about everyone serving over there (did I ever even say that my brother was in the armed forces, wise guy?

I kinda guessed...

What if he was there performing humanitarian aid?)

You don't peform Humanitarian aid at gunpoint. It tends to upset those you're supposed to be helping. Put the guns down, pick up the shovels. Ever notice how the British troops in the south have a massivly lower percentage of casualties in the towns they were looking after (until now they've been deployed to clean up your mess?)

 

[Changleen]

Guilty conscience...classic.

You're right, one guy - out of hundreds of thousands of people over there, chooses to hang a rosary on the end of his 50 cal. - that makes the whole lot of them a bunch of arrogant bastards who do not deserve to return home to their families.

Demonising the west? Please - like you give a sh1t.

Run along now, play your bongo, grow your throat beard, smoke a bowl, and STFU.

You know, that was a great response. For a 4 year old. And yes, I do give a sht if America manges to demonise the west. Gee - thanks America for starting a war between civilizations for no good reason than George Bush's greed. Way to waste life on grand scale.

And since you seem to be an utter failure at producing an argument for staying in Iraq and following your orders from your corrupt commander in chief unquestioningly, why don't you STFU?

 

[s1ngletrack]

Oh - by the way, I asked you a very serious question incase you missed it - who is going to step in and clean this mess up?

I mean seriously - in a place where Muslims kill Muslims over religious beliefs, and he with the biggest bat is the top dog, who do you propose we send over there? You don't really think that these guys are at each others throats because of the US - right?

Shall we release Saddam, so that a highly critical international community will no longer be bothered with images on the news of bloodshed? Because we all know that things were really nice for all of the Iraqis when he was in power - or, golly, maybe we just didn't see what was going on - oh well, out of sight, out of mind...

 

[Slugman]

Edit: I note from the email I received from Ridemonkey that one of you tried to hack into my account yesterday following your little outbursts of unquestioning support for your warmonger leader. I guess that really highlights how pathetic you really are, Mr. 67.176.117.19.

It's a conspiracy to rule the world by overtaking your RM account... run, hide... buy more tinfoil!!!!

 

[Changleen]

Oh - by the way, I asked you a very serious question incase you missed it - who is going to step in and clean this mess up?

In case you missed it, my answer was - Give the money you are currently using to perpetuate hatred of America and kill thousands of innocent people to the Iraqis themselves and let them do it for themselves. You've had your chance at making ammends with Iraq and every day that goes by you make it worse. Even if a few religious groups kill each other for a while, it can't possibly be worse than the 100,000 you've already killed. And I don't see America actually giving a **** about the hundreds of other places in the world where tyranical leaders brutally oppress their population. In fact I think you support a few of them...

 

[s1ngletrack]

And since you seem to be an utter failure at producing an argument for staying in Iraq and following your orders from your corrupt commander in chief unquestioningly, why don't you STFU?

Don't expect such an argument here.

I do agree that this war has served wonderfully as a recruitment tool for terrorists - and I think it's an absolute clusterf***. However, have yet to hear of a feasible plan for withdrawl (and consider myself lucky that those in power here don't share your simplistic "just walk away" attitude).

Your attitude toward the people working over there is f***ing disgusting and naive, and I realize that I have been beating my head against a brick wall on this, but for some reason had to jump at the opportunity to play your silly game.

 

[Changleen]

Don't expect such an argument here.

Oh, trust me, I wasn't...

I do agree that this war has served wonderfully as a recruitment tool for terrorists - and I think it's an absolute clusterf***. However, have yet to hear of a feasible plan for withdrawl (and consider myself lucky that those in power here don't share your simplistic "just walk away" attitude).

Read it again. It's not 'just walk away' - It's withdraw troops and provide substancial monitary assistance to Iraq to undo the mess you've caused - at least on a par with what you currently spend on the military deployment. The troops are just making things worse at this stage. As you accept, you have now passed the stage where you can ever come out of this looking good, so you should leave earlier rather than later. The situation IS a ****-up. The longer you stay the more it becomes. It's time to accept that and move on.

Your attitude toward the people working over there is f***ing disgusting and naive, and I realize that I have been beating my head against a brick wall on this, but for some reason had to jump at the opportunity to play your silly game.

Please. Why is it 'disgusting and naive' to expect human beings to critically appraise their own actions? Failure to do this is what got you in this ****ed up situation in the first place. Or all we all to do exactly what we are commanded to do no matter what? I guess that's what its come to under George W, eh? If GW told everyone to jump in front of a Bus, would you do it? Essentially that's what he's asking a bunch of these troops.

As for banging your head against a brick wall - this is a debate forum on the internet. You choose to post here. (or did GW tell you to do it?)

 

[s1ngletrack]

Mmmkay... note to self:

Let GW know that all future funds are to be sent over to fanatical groups so that they can arm themselves with weapons - artillery/chem & bio, to suppress the Sunnis or (insert whatever group here) uprisings, while still having funds available for state sponsored terrorist activity abroad.

Next - condemn brother for joining the military so that he can get an education while doing something that he enjoys (jumping out of planes, shooting inanimate objects - this is not wrong ... is it?) - and for being enough of a man to fulfill the commitment he made when those in power chose to act on flawed information that they recieved from where? ahem....

 

[Changleen]

Mmmkay... note to self:

Let GW know that all future funds are to be sent over to fanatical groups so that they can arm themselves with weapons - artillery/chem & bio, to suppress the Sunnis or (insert whatever group here) uprisings, while still having funds available for state sponsored terrorist activity abroad.

Hey, Giving money to one more state sponsor of terrorism would be par for the course for GW. He already funds the worst terrorist state in the world and gives them the latest US weaponry.

Oh, wait, how is giving money to the Iraqi government funding 'fanatical groups'? Or are you a 'all Muslims are evil' type of guy?

Next - condemn brother for joining the military so that he can get an education while doing something that he enjoys (jumping out of planes, shooting inanimate objects - this is not wrong ... is it?) - and for being enough of a man to fulfill the commitment he made when those in power chose to act on flawed information that they recieved from where? ahem....

Tell him what you want. Although be sure to mention that killing people for George Bush's Agenda is definatly wrong. And what's wrong with College?

 

[N8 v2.0]

Chanleen =

 

[Changleen]

N8 = 0.00

 

[s1ngletrack]

Tell him what you want. Although be sure to mention that killing people for George Bush's Agenda is definatly wrong. And what's wrong with College?

Nothing wrong with college - give it a shot. You see, after putting in time in the Army, he will not be forking out the 350 a month for student loans that I will for the next 7 years - they will cover almost all of it for him.

My brother is an Army sniper - I'm sure that he understands the effects of killing people on one's mind / soul on a level that neither of us will ever understand. No need for me to lecture him on a subject he knows better than most.

 

[N8 v2.0]

Hey, Giving money to one more state sponsor of terrorism would be par for the course for GW. He already funds the worst terrorist state in the world and gives them the latest US weaponry.

Oh, wait, how is giving money to the Iraqi government funding 'fanatical groups'? Or are you a 'all Muslims are evil' type of guy?

Tell him what you want. Although be sure to mention that killing people for George Bush's Agenda is definatly wrong. And what's wrong with College?

Ahhhh .... I see the screw-up fairy has visited us again.

 

[s1ngletrack]

Ahhhh .... I see the screw-up fairy has visited us again.

Are you referring to his logic - or his spelling? Or both...

 

[N8 v2.0]

Are you referring to his logic - or his spelling? Or both...

We are all refreshed and challenged by Changleen's unique point of view....

 

[Changleen]

We are all refreshed and challenged by Changleen's unique point of view....

You sure are 'challenged' N8!

 

[Changleen]

Nothing wrong with college - give it a shot. You see, after putting in time in the Army, he will not be forking out the 350 a month for student loans that I will for the next 7 years - they will cover almost all of it for him.

Maybe if your government didn't spend 10% of your GDP on your armed forces College couild be paid for by the state? I guess that's for another thread though.

My brother is an Army sniper - I'm sure that he understands the effects of killing people on one's mind / soul on a level that neither of us will ever understand. No need for me to lecture him on a subject he knows better than most.

I thought you said he was doing humanitarian stuff? Or is killing Muslims considered humanitarian these days?

 

[BurlyShirley]

s1ngletrack,

dont even get on Changleen's level here. it's obvious from his proposed exit strategy that he really has no ****ing clue about what is actually happening. Or, is he advocating putting Saddam back in power to rule over things again? It would not surprise me, as he is a Bin Laden apologist as well. In which case, he's even more the idiot. In no way would the US pulling out now be beneficial to the Iraqis. As there is no possible way to get a people's leader in charge without US military support.
Also, for his demonization of US troops, just laugh it off because he's a fool. We know for a fact that our boys are there (at least in their minds) to help the Iraqis out. Its as simple as that. Changleen's premise that we are there for evil reasons has not been proven, so take a what he says as it is, pure conjecture from a peacenick idiot. They feel they are fighting for a good cause and that is all they can really control. Changleens hatred of Americans is evident in every post he makes here. There is no true rationale or objectivity in any of his posts. Seriously. Do a search and find a thread to which he does not demonize US actions in some way. You wont find one. He's filled with hatred for Americans and Hatred for Christians and Hatred for Jews. It blinds him.

 

[PonySoldier]

I thought you said he was doing humanitarian stuff? Or is killing Muslims considered humanitarian these days?[/QUOTE]


Would depend on the brand of Muslim he is killin'

 

[N8 v2.0]

I thought you said he was doing humanitarian stuff? Or is killing Muslims considered humanitarian these days?

Oh my, let's make this about religion now... first it was oil... now it's religion?

Are you coo-coo for CocaPuffs?

 

[Changleen]

s1ngletrack,

dont even get on Changleen's level here. it's obvious from his proposed exit strategy that he really has no ****ing clue about what is actually happening. Or, is he advocating putting Saddam back in power to rule over things again?

Hallucinating about posts I never made again, Shirley? You should see someone about that.

 

[Silver]

Oh my, let's make this about religion now... first it was oil... now it's religion?

Are you coo-coo for CocaPuff?

Hey, if the President can change rationale every five minutes without you getting confused, I'd think that Changleen should be afforded the same luxury.

 

[N8 v2.0]

Edit: I note from the email I received from Ridemonkey that one of you tried to hack into my account yesterday following your little outbursts of unquestioning support for your warmonger leader. I guess that really highlights how pathetic you really are, Mr. 67.176.117.19.

PFFT.... someone attempts to hack your silly RM account ONE TIME and you cry about it.... if RM had a nickle for everytime the N8 account was hacked...




However, I'll bet the log-on id "Changleen.1" is available...

 

[BurlyShirley]

Hallucinating about posts I never made again, Shirley? You should see someone about that.

Good reply

Then please explain to us how the US pulling out without a bonified govt. in place will be beneficial to the Iraqi people. You said something about money, but exactly who will we be paying it to, and for what exactly? Surely you dont mean the current government that cannot stand on its own without US support, do you? Tell me you are not that naieve. I cant wait to read this solution.

 

[Changleen]

Good reply

Show me the posts then, Troll-boy.

 

[Westy]

However, I'll bet the log-on id "Changleen.1" is available...

Where has N8.1 gone?

I wish I could be enough of an internet superstar to spawn a Westy.1

 

[BurlyShirley]

Show me the posts then, Troll-boy.

Show me your exit strategy, sheep-boy.

 

[Changleen]

Show me your exit strategy, sheep-boy.

Read the thread. (Love your sig by the way! Real healthy!)

 

[N8 v2.0]

Where has N8.1 gone?

I wish I could be enough of an internet superstar to spawn a Westy.1

I don't know... N8.1 faded into the abyss after the election. Perhaps he's being treated for Post Election Stress Disorder..?

 

[BurlyShirley]

Read the thread. (Love your sig by the way! Real healthy!)

I did, and considering you make no sense, I was hoping there was something more to it, but apparently not. You actually are that stupid.

 

[Changleen]

Still waiting to see these phantom posts where I condone putting Saddam back in power, Shirley. Or could it be that you're talking ****?

Dude, you are getting really dark recently. Encouraging me to kill myself? Telling people I'm filled with hatred? I know we've tried to talk about this before, but you always clam up on me. Come on, what's wrong? A problem shared is a problem halved.

 

[N8 v2.0]

You actually are that stupid.

Say it isn't so!!!