Transcend said:
Pretty much, i could see it being really handy for Slalom racers are the WC level.
Great Idea for new Body armor
- Thread starter zmtber
- Start date
Pretty much, i could see it being really handy for Slalom racers are the WC level.
Fraser you slacker, read two posts above this post. I posted about this exact stuff weeks ago.Transcend said:
For ski applications that seems all that it is feesible for right now. But for downhill armor I see it beeing great for stuff like shoulder, elbow, forearm, chest, and backplate protection. There are allready alot of people who cut off the hard plastic shells on Dainese armor on the places that it feels like it restricts movement. It really would work well for those parts of the armor I think. I thought about it for shiguards but I think it is a softer, flexible material and would probably be succeptible to ripping on sharp pedals and tree branches and such. Something to think about though.Transcend said:
That price is actually not bad at all at retail. Current downhill suits that are available usually run about that price anyway at retail. There really isnt as much of a significant price jump for this suit compared to older ones as I was expecting.Zutroy said:
Transcend said:
Could you imagine landing after a big drop and having the armor harden on impact accidently? That would be freakin hilarious to see....
"WTF?! I can't move my arms!" *biff*
Saw an article on Discovery about this stuff. Showed it being applied to motocross, dh biking and gs skiing. Nice suit with knees, shoulders, elbows and back. Very flexible but gets hard when hit at speed. Could be the future. Found their website:
http://www.d3o.com/index.php?cont=1_home§ion=0
Looks promising.
http://www.d3o.com/index.php?cont=1_home§ion=0
Looks promising.
My Girlfriend already did a thesis on impact protection using this stuff. She had a small colaberation with D30, the 'inventor' of this product in foam form and I can tell you that its certainly got an aplication in DH type body armor. She learnt quite a few things that certainly changed my perspective on whats good and whats bad.
Can't believe I read all 4 pages to pose this 1 single question no one else has. OK...so the stuff hardens on impact right. Sharp objects, projectiles, rocks you land your ribs on...whatever. But the thing I'm NOT seeing mentioned is any disbursement of the energy from the projectile.
Body armor disperses energy with the bio-foam padding, styrofoam, etc. If you're wearing this thing on your arm and a bullet from a Glock pops your arm....it is not going to break the skin. But isn't it still going to equate to a miniature sledgehammer and practically bludgeon your arm still?
Here's another instance...you tackle a boulder on your shin at 25mph and this stuff is on you. Without foam padding behind it, it's still going to transfer the brute force straight through the material. Being hard doesn't mean crap.
So....are they saying in "body armor" this material can take the place of the external plastic elbow/shin/forearm pad and be layered over top of bio-foam??? Or are we just talking about hucking on your NoFearMX moto pants with no other padding underneath and barrel rolling off Niagra Falls with nary a scratch or dent in you????
Body armor disperses energy with the bio-foam padding, styrofoam, etc. If you're wearing this thing on your arm and a bullet from a Glock pops your arm....it is not going to break the skin. But isn't it still going to equate to a miniature sledgehammer and practically bludgeon your arm still?
Here's another instance...you tackle a boulder on your shin at 25mph and this stuff is on you. Without foam padding behind it, it's still going to transfer the brute force straight through the material. Being hard doesn't mean crap.
So....are they saying in "body armor" this material can take the place of the external plastic elbow/shin/forearm pad and be layered over top of bio-foam??? Or are we just talking about hucking on your NoFearMX moto pants with no other padding underneath and barrel rolling off Niagra Falls with nary a scratch or dent in you????
i dont belive the hype with this **** if you were using one of those d30 skinsuits and fell into an serious rock garden you are not getting up. even with dainese if you bail in the rocks you still gonna have scuffs all over you.
edit. isnt this d30 thing also going on the theroy that we learned in preschool with that goop you can swish it around but if you hit or punch it it stays together? seems just like they nasa'd it up a bit
edit. isnt this d30 thing also going on the theroy that we learned in preschool with that goop you can swish it around but if you hit or punch it it stays together? seems just like they nasa'd it up a bit
Butch, the hardening is the effect of absorbing the energy.
bizutch said:
Tests have shown it to absorb and disperse energy better than ANY other armor out there right now. Google it.
so you're saying that the liquid solidifying is the actual energy displacement? guess I'm having a hard time picturing it.profro said:
I just picture an object striking the material making it rigid and the momentum of the projectile then moving that rigid membrane full force into whatever is behind it. But I suppose if the energy from the object makes a very wide segment of the material rigid simultaneously, say 6-8 inches in diameter, that would effectively make the contact patch of the material with your skin much wider and less forceful than a 1/8 inch piece of the material only.
Moving on to picture threads now...thanks guys....
I don't know about this material exactly, but certain non-newtonian fluids can have a shear-thickening effect, which means that the viscocity increases as you try to shear (apply force) the liquid. So the more force you put into it, the more the liquid gets thicker. It absorbs the force.
Get him talking about diesel when you're curious and watch the passengers drop like they've been chloroformed. Jeremy and Crackhead's started sawing logs before I finished my question. :love:spoke80 said:
Not cracking on you Doug...but needless to say they weren't as interested in the topic as me.
They're testing now. I'm one of the crash test dummies. :biggrin:
Essentially, they needed someone who would give feedback who has a high probability of crashing at a trail near you. Kind of a "OK, who on the team here crashes at every race?" I was one of 2 chosen. I received my jacket in the mail last week, but it needed some alterations, so I had a tailor mark it, took some pics and I'm shipping it back to them.
When I first opened the package, I was really conflicted. On the one hand, I was excited and couldn't wait to try it out! On the other hand, setting out with the intention of chronicling my crash experience was no fun to think about (kind of a "YESSS! I finally received the... oh. Yeah. Gotta test it. Right.)
So, I'll go out and do what I always do... eventually the crashes will come.
man...they should have shipped a set to Ben, Doug or Joey for some Windrockification....talk about instant feedback.
Was anyone up at Fort William watching them hit people with a shovel?
I keep seeing different stories about the D30 material...I think it shows some promise but would love to see the application in person.
This is what I am talking about:
http://www.d3o.com/fw/New Site/Welcome.html
This vid on gizmodo isn't that thrilling but gives and idea:
http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/nextfest07/video-of-a-blonde-being-smashed-by-a-shovel-while-thankfully-wearing-d3o-body-armor-300134.php
Hopefully someone that got a "dog tag" wins the top and can do a write up.
I keep seeing different stories about the D30 material...I think it shows some promise but would love to see the application in person.
This is what I am talking about:
http://www.d3o.com/fw/New Site/Welcome.html
This vid on gizmodo isn't that thrilling but gives and idea:
http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/nextfest07/video-of-a-blonde-being-smashed-by-a-shovel-while-thankfully-wearing-d3o-body-armor-300134.php
Hopefully someone that got a "dog tag" wins the top and can do a write up.
It would be really cool if this could be used to make a non/less restrictive neck brace, would be good to see a proliferation of that, too many debilitating injuries.
Ok... I have the solution!
You just need a full body pressure suit. With pads even on the spots less prone to injury. Then, you can have a button somewhere. Like on your wrist or something...
Whenever a crash is about to take place, it could force your knees into your chest, and you could just roll like sonic the hedgehog and survive without a scratch.
You just need a full body pressure suit. With pads even on the spots less prone to injury. Then, you can have a button somewhere. Like on your wrist or something...
Whenever a crash is about to take place, it could force your knees into your chest, and you could just roll like sonic the hedgehog and survive without a scratch.
It doesn't quite work like that, though. It's not really "supportive" as much as it is an impact absorber. You usually don't land on your neck for a neck injury - you land on your head.
My guess is that the impact of your head twisting back isn't a sharp enough impact to cause the material to harden enough. Sort of like a drop on a bike being a low speed compression.
sunny - there was just another thread about this, I was hoping you'd stick your head in. How's it built? Layer of the stuff over foam? Also, messing around with non-Newtonian fluids in science class in high school, the effect was always very local - that is, only the area immediately around the impact hardened. Great for stopping a bullet but I'm wondering if it effectively spreads out the impact or if it's mostly for abrasion/puncture resistance.
Here's a write up
Revolutionary New Body Armor Hits the Trails in SoCal for Testing
San Diego, CA
Its a cool and sunny morning when I load up the car with my gear and the downhill bike and head out to meet friends for shuttle runs down Anderson Truck Trail in East San Diego County. Im nervous partly because Ive never been to Anderson before, and partly because of the task I am to undertake: pull on untried body armor and go crash.
Ive been asked to try out a revolutionary type of body armor called d3o, which is a soft, pliable material that hardens on impact to absorb shock. How did I get involved here? Essentially, the folks at d3o were looking for people with a high probability of crashing who would give feedback. After an initial No Brakes Racing team poll of "OK, who on the team crashes at every race?" I was one of 2 people chosen.
So today, I am a Crash Test Dummy. Just to tempt fate, I even wear my Crash Test Dummy jersey.
The jacket I have been sent is a form-fitting LYCRA and Coolmax, that feels really good against the skin, and hugs the body well. The elbows and shoulders contain the d3o protective material, encased on the shoulders by the same LYCRA and Coolmax material found throughout the jacket, and encased on the elbows with a thicker, more durable and rip-resistant fabric, Keprotec (by Schoeller). The d3o material is covered on the inside of the jacket by a flexible lightweight LYCRA and Coolmax mesh.
More akin to hard foam or clay than anything else, the protective d3o material itself is a pliable orange substance that neither looks nor feels like any other body armor Ive seen. I hold the d3o elbow padding in my hands, easily folding it in half as I slowly shake my head and wonder whether it will really reactively harden on impact as Ive been told it will.
(inside of shoulder pad)
According to the d3o website,
d3o technology is a specially engineered material with intelligent molecules that flow with you as you move but on impact, lock together to absorb impact energy. d3o material provides a flexible, breathable, washable, and lightweight alternative to conventional rigid hard shell systems.
As we begin our ride, I note that the jacket is really quite comfortable, moves with me as I move, and is light enough that I hardly notice it.
(video - descending through the rocks)
(video - jumping off the rock)
I ride well today, but still manage to crash a few times. Coming through the singletrack, I spot the trail ahead, look through the corner, and lean the bike beneath me through a series of S-turns. Coming into what looks like a bermed corner I lean into it, only to be slammed hard to the earth when the edge crumbles away under my front tire. Having no time to dive away from it, the bike slams hard directly onto my leg, pinning me to the ground.
I groan, pull myself out from under the bike, and stand for a moment with my head hanging down to catch my breath before rearing back and screaming into the air in pain and frustration. I only do this when it really hurts, even though I feel like a Wookie when I do, but somehow it helps. A few moments later, as I get back on the bike and begin pedaling, I realize that I must have impacted on my elbow too. Or did I? I stop to examine the elbow. Sure enough, I find ground in dirt in the fabric over my elbow, and smile, knowing the armor worked I felt nothing. Wow. Yes!!
My second good crash is in the rock bed near the end of the ride. I go down pretty hard, this time on my left hip and elbow. Once again, while my hip with no protection is really throbbing, I feel no effect of the impact on my elbow. I usually wear a very good hard plastic shell armor that covers my shoulders, chest and elbows. In many falls, although the trauma of the impact is kept to a minimum, the area is still a bit sore after a crash, but not today. The shock of the impact was so well-absorbed through the d3o material that I check the elbows on the garment again to make sure I really did fall on them. Yep the left elbow has traces of ground-in dirt. Nice!
The d3o material does everything it says it will. It is light and breathable, and really absorbs the shock of impact while allowing your body to move like it wants to.
There are modifications that could be made to the jacket garment itself to improve the level of protection provided, like chest or spine protection inserts, but I have yet to find anything in the d3o protective material itself that needs improvement. The possibilities for d3o material are endless and are applicable for all kinds of sports. As an athlete, I eagerly await more protective gear that utilizes this technology.
For more information about d3o technology, please see their website at d3o.com.
Product review by Laura Drexler
Has this stuff been put into any production units yet? If so, can you provide info.
Thanks for the write up!
Thanks for the write up!
Not in production at this moment, but coming very soon. I don't know when any announcements will be made, but when they are, I'll be sure to post.
I'd love to see some 661 kyle strait knee pads with that material thrown in, padded shorts also... maybe toe protection?
Looks like the SixSixONe is going to use it in their pads...
scroll down a bit (from interbike)
http://www.bikemagic.com/news/article/mps/UAN/5800/v/1/sp/
scroll down a bit (from interbike)
http://www.bikemagic.com/news/article/mps/UAN/5800/v/1/sp/
If that works as well as advertised, and in real world situations, it would become the ultimate knee pads material for ANY action sport. The ability to move freely, along with the protection of a hardshell. Good stuff.
Is this the same stuff spyder is using in their ski racing suits?
Is this the same stuff spyder is using in their ski racing suits?
I'm with you on that one! I need a full body suit made of that stuff I love this video - made me chuckle too. Those crazy brits!
that's amazing. When this stuff comes out, I will be first in line as long as there is also spine protection.
ditto
He should have used a bat or something smaller. That large surface area on the shovel spreads out the hit over a greater area and absorbs more of the shock - not that impressive.
Its probably a pretty heavy high density gel so dainese suit of it would be heavy.
that stuff is sweeeeeeeeeeet. gotta love enginerds!
Went to a plastics and polymers trade show in LA about a year ago. Saw some guy under the d3O sign taking a baseball bat to the gut from passers by. I couldn't resist so I took a swing. Either he had some crazy strong abs, or that stuff really works. Knocked him down, but he got right back up.
I put on a demo sleeve and started wacking my arm against a nearby pole. The whole sleeve hardened up upon impact but I could feel a slight indention at the moment of impact nothing more. People probably thought I was pscyho cuz I was making that pole ring like a bell with every wack. Only stopped my ice cream was melting.
d3O IS THE FUTURE... AND THE FUTURE IS NOW 
I put on a demo sleeve and started wacking my arm against a nearby pole. The whole sleeve hardened up upon impact but I could feel a slight indention at the moment of impact nothing more. People probably thought I was pscyho cuz I was making that pole ring like a bell with every wack. Only stopped my ice cream was melting.
d3O IS THE FUTURE... AND THE FUTURE IS NOW
So what happens to the d3o your knee pad if you hit something (say asphalt or gravel) sliding for a sec that would normally just scrape the plastic cup on a standard knee pad?
While it looks like it disperses impacts, I didn't see anybody scraping at it with gravel? I assume once you rip through the cloth cover, you're going to scrape that stuff up. I mean...it's only rigid under tremendous force right? What would keep it from tearing?
Oh...and did SixSixOne have a price tag next to those bad boys?
While it looks like it disperses impacts, I didn't see anybody scraping at it with gravel? I assume once you rip through the cloth cover, you're going to scrape that stuff up. I mean...it's only rigid under tremendous force right? What would keep it from tearing?
Oh...and did SixSixOne have a price tag next to those bad boys?
Oh...and I wanted to openly weep for the loss of the skin on my shins as a child when I saw that shovel pop his knee....