[RhinofromWA]

So hopefully you have all seen Gary Leon Ridgeway's mug on TV. He has admitted to killing over 40 women since 1982 and dumping them. Ladies bodies were originally found near the Green River giving him his name.

He aggreed to admit to killing something like 43 ladies, if he only gets life behind bars.......

Here we have the largest body count for any serial murderer in the US and he will not be put to death.

I have to say I am dissapointed. This man should not be allowed to extract oxygen from the air.

Anyone have thoughts about capital punishment?

The effect of future criminals agruing that Ridgeway didn't get sentences to death, and trying to use "I only killed 1 person" sort of defense.

This man is a sick SOB and does not deserve to live especially in even substandard prison cell conditions.

I wonder how many cases of cigarettes it would take to have him finished off on the inside?

 

[Jr_Bullit]

I think they also said tho, that if he was found guilty for ANY other crime, they get to prosecute for death.

And there's still many many bodies out there that don't have an identified killer that are being processed to determine if he be the one.

Personally...he needs to be put down. To allow him to live, to hear today on the news that Ann Rule will be writing about him..nonono...why do we remember these people? they aren't worth the dog piss on the ground.

 

[RhinofromWA]

I thought about that......

Why would he then not admitt to everything? It isn't like a dozen or so more ladies he killed would tarnish his name after the 40 or so ladies he admitted to.

Get them all under this case.

I heard they took some ladies off his list 'cause the bodies have not been found even though he admitted to killing them

they're are holding out for some one missing in OR that can be linked but that is a lot of "ifs" we are finding bodies 20 years after he dumped them only with is help....I think he jsut bought himself another 20 years of us not finding the ladies.

Although to teh cops defense, even though Ridgeway was the TOP suspect they couldn't link him to the ladies.....until scientific methods matured enough so they could charge him.

On the radio someone was joking they should strangle him to death and revive him 40 some odd times then let him live the rest of his days behind bars. I would favor that......ack erk*beeeeeeeeeeeeeeep* "clear!" *ZAP* *Beep beep beep* Erk ack *beeeeeeeeeeeeeep* "clear" *ZAP*..............:angry:

 

[Heidi]

Has anyone else seen the movie, "The Life of David Gale"? It's about capital punishment. Interesting

I grew up in Washington in the 80's and as a little girl passing through the Green River area I remember being terrified.

I think he should definitely just be put to death.

 

[llkoolkeg]

Originally posted by Heidi
I grew up in Washington in the 80's and as a little girl passing through the Green River area I remember being terrified.

Good thing you weren't hooking, eh?

 

[Moogie]

Originally posted by RhinofromWA

He aggreed to admit to killing something like 43 ladies, if he only gets life behind bars.......

i think that life behind bars with no retrial is the worst punishment. death is the easy way out for a mass murderer.

 

[brock]

Since the capitol punishment thing has been beat into the ground numerous times (and like religion, nobody's minds get changed).

How about this, How many of those women do you think would be alive today if prostitution were decriminalized?

 

[HippieKai]

Like i siad before on the last thread about this i don't care what happens to him. But i don't think we should waste tax money and feeding him or all the paper work it will take to kill him. He sould just be put ino a cell with a big dude that needs some fresh a$$ and let Mr. Green River get his but stuck and then the crap kicked out of him until he dies slowly in the hands of some freaky convict.

That way everyone that says capitol punishment is wrong can feel better that it wasn't our "inocent" court system that did it and everyone that want this dude dead can be happy that he died in pain.

RANT OVER

 

[laura]

Originally posted by brock
Since the capitol punishment thing has been beat into the ground numerous times (and like religion, nobody's minds get changed).

How about this, How many of those women do you think would be alive today if prostitution were decriminalized?

sometimes i think you dont post nearly enough.

 

[BurlyShirley]

Originally posted by brock
Since the capitol punishment thing has been beat into the ground numerous times (and like religion, nobody's minds get changed).

How about this, How many of those women do you think would be alive today if prostitution were decriminalized?

6

 

[Damn True]

Originally posted by brock
Since the capitol punishment thing has been beat into the ground numerous times (and like religion, nobody's minds get changed).

How about this, How many of those women do you think would be alive today if prostitution were decriminalized?

Good question.

I don't know enough about the case but I suppose it depends in particular upon the guys motive.

Was he intent upon cleansing society of the trash out of some sort of twisted relgious fervor? If so, the decriminalization probably would not have affected him as his demented interpretation would have still demanded the same action.

 

[$tinkle]

Originally posted by Mag204
Like i siad before on the last thread about this i don't care what happens to him. But i don't think we should waste tax money and feeding him or all the paper work it will take to kill him. He sould just be put ino a cell with a big dude that needs some fresh a$$ and let Mr. Green River get his but stuck and then the crap kicked out of him until he dies slowly in the hands of some freaky convict.

That way everyone that says capitol punishment is wrong can feel better that it wasn't our "inocent" court system that did it and everyone that want this dude dead can be happy that he died in pain.

RANT OVER

this is where i really don't mind if our gov't works in secret. Just exile the guy, while implementing implied aforementioned "conditioning". Of course, be sure & capture it all on some medium, for this can be used to truly deter more crimes. How many episodes of MSNBC's Dark Heart, Iron Hand or Pelican Bay after-school specials truly deter capital crime? If anything, the fence-sitter is thinking "here's where he screwed up; i'll be sure & take a bucket of bleach w/ me next time".

speaking of crime-scene cleanup, anybody see this on the discovery channel? it was jim rose lugubrious

 

[brock]

Originally posted by Damn True
Good question.

I don't know enough about the case but I suppose it depends in particular upon the guys motive.

Was he intent upon cleansing society of the trash out of some sort of twisted relgious fervor? If so, the decriminalization probably would not have affected him as his demented interpretation would have still demanded the same action.

I was thinking more along the lines of him getting caught sooner if the women talk openly with police or each other without fear of prosecution.

He chose street walkers beacause they were aesy targets and would not be missed.

 

[BurlyShirley]

Here's a better question.

If prostitution were legal, and you raped a prostitute.

Would you be charged for rape or theft?

 

[brock]

Originally posted by BurlySurly
Here's a better question.

If prostitution were legal, and you raped a prostitute.

Would you be charged for rape or theft?

Rape.

 

[RhinofromWA]

Originally posted by Mag204
Like i siad before on the last thread about this i don't care what happens to him. But i don't think we should waste tax money and feeding him or all the paper work it will take to kill him. He sould just be put ino a cell with a big dude that needs some fresh a$$ and let Mr. Green River get his but stuck and then the crap kicked out of him until he dies slowly in the hands of some freaky convict.

That way everyone that says capitol punishment is wrong can feel better that it wasn't our "inocent" court system that did it and everyone that want this dude dead can be happy that he died in pain.

RANT OVER

Like I said above....how many cartons of cigarettes to have it done inside? Wouldn't cost that much.

 

[RhinofromWA]

Originally posted by brock
I was thinking more along the lines of him getting caught sooner if the women talk openly with police or each other without fear of prosecution.

He chose street walkers beacause they were aesy targets and would not be missed.

OK I am following now. Cleared up some of my Q's from your prior post.

I don't think much would have changed. If a street walker had info on Ridgeway and went to the cops....why would they be prosecuted? They committted no crime...that the police can prove. They just have information that can catch a serial murderer. I would take that over holding a hooker overnight in a cell.

I don't see how (and I may need to be educated) talking to another prostitute get you in trouble? I would think they both have thier best interests in mind....to protect themselves from a murderer. I can see them being very quiet about what they do...and they don't neccessarily gather at an all night diner and discuss the nights haul, but "the word on the street" was no one could prove it was him.

He was a known suspect and they still couldn't pin it on him until forensic science could assist them.

The hookers being easy targets are true. I don't think making prostitution legal would change that of make them less missed....unless they were a famous prostitute.

 

[brock]

Originally posted by RhinofromWA
OK I am following now. Cleared up some of my Q's from your prior post.

I don't think much would have changed. If a street walker had info on Ridgeway and went to the cops....why would they be prosecuted? They committted no crime...that the police can prove. They just have information that can catch a serial murderer. I would take that over holding a hooker overnight in a cell.

No way would anyone who is actively involved in prostitution go to the police and admit doing so. Yeah sure they may not hold them for anything that day but, welcome to the watch list. Cops are not known for their great treatment of prostitutes.

The illegality of the act also hastens the process of solicitation/agreement (need to get it done quick and get out of sight), therefore hampering any intuitive assesment of the solicitor by the prostitute.

I don't see how (and I may need to be educated) talking to another prostitute get you in trouble? I would think they both have thier best interests in mind....to protect themselves from a murderer. I can see them being very quiet about what they do...and they don't neccessarily gather at an all night diner and discuss the nights haul, but "the word on the street" was no one could prove it was him.

It's called pandering. It carries harsher penalties than the act of prostitution itself. A hooker can get in more trouble for saying "the guy in the red car is a creep" than if she got in the car herself and gave hime a BJ.

He was a known suspect and they still couldn't pin it on him until forensic science could assist them.

True, but more open and willing communication without fear of prosectution from the street could have helped early on.

The hookers being easy targets are true. I don't think making prostitution legal would change that of make them less missed....unless they were a famous prostitute.

They are also very easy targets for cops as well. It is easier for them to put together a prostitution sting and get results than go and fight real crime.


It should be noted that streetwalkers make up a small percentage of the sexwork industry. Prostitution laws right now do more to keep these women on the streets than help them get off.

 

[ummbikes]

For some information on the issue of prostitution check out Justice Talking.

here

Yes it's NPR.

The program has has two "experts" debating, one speaking for legalization one for the status quo.

 

[RhinofromWA]

Originally posted by brock
No way would anyone who is actively involved in prostitution go to the police and admit doing so. Yeah sure they may not hold them for anything that day but, welcome to the watch list. Cops are not known for their great treatment of prostitutes.

The illegality of the act also hastens the process of solicitation/agreement (need to get it done quick and get out of sight), therefore hampering any intuitive assesment of the solicitor by the prostitute.

Bringing them info does not equate them being a prostitute. They are an informant. A person with information regarding a crime. I think catching a serieal killer would exceed their desire to rough a prostitute up.

It's called pandering. It carries harsher penalties than the act of prostitution itself. A hooker can get in more trouble for saying "the guy in the red car is a creep" than if she got in the car herself and gave hime a BJ.

a go-between in an illicit or secret romantic or sexual relationship

and

to indulge somebody’s weaknesses or questionable wishes and tastes

or

to procure sexual favors for somebody

Is the hooker in trouble for defimation of characture, when she calls that guy a creep? A hooker is pandering to a Johns needs when she gives him a BJ.

True, but more open and willing communication without fear of prosectution from the street could have helped early on.

They are also very easy targets for cops as well. It is easier for them to put together a prostitution sting and get results than go and fight real crime.

Not if they went to the unsolved crime unit officer. The Green River Killer task force.

It should be noted that streetwalkers make up a small percentage of the sexwork industry. Prostitution laws right now do more to keep these women on the streets than help them get off.

How will making prostitution legal change what they do.....other than the way they advertise ?

I don't think decriminalization whould have saved any of these ladies. Ridgeway would have done it anyway. I dont think it would make it much more difficult for him to do.

 

[brock]

Ok on the informant thing. I guessing you have never been involved in any criminal activity. I have, I know that people involved in criminal activity only talk to cops when spoken to. Cops only have informants because they have something on the informant. Period.

It's pandering because they are aiding other prostitutes by spreading the word. Just the same as providing a refernce would. such as "I'vee seen that guy and he's OK"

My comment on prostitution stings was not specific to this case. Criminals don't willingly talk to cops. See above

Legalizing prostitution will not cahnge what they do by itself but how is locking them up and giving them a criminal record helping. In the cases of the drug addicted prostitute who does it for drugs or a pimp it is not helping to just keep throwing them in jail.

You obviously have very conservative veiwpoints and I have very liberal ones. It seems the only common ground between us is the dirt under our tires.

 

[LordOpie]

Since the death penalty doesn't deter criminals, the only other reason for it is to prevent a murdered from killing again. So long as the guy is in prison, he can't do that in general society.

The families should be kept posted. If the guy escapes, the families should go hunting.

 

[golgiaparatus]

Capitol punishment is far to kind for him.

- Injecting him full of poison 0 suffering.
- Electric chair=.1 sec of suffering.
- Gas=20 sec of suffering

They need to forever lock him in a well lit room full of pics of his victims with all his limbs amputated. While in this room they would feed him nothing but prunes and prune juice from a trough. That way he would live in misery while being able to do nothing but $hit himself 20 times a day, then he'd have to lie in it and think about his victims until he died.

 

[RhinofromWA]

Originally posted by brock
Ok on the informant thing. I guessing you have never been involved in any criminal activity. I have, I know that people involved in criminal activity only talk to cops when spoken to. Cops only have informants because they have something on the informant. Period.

It's pandering because they are aiding other prostitutes by spreading the word. Just the same as providing a refernce would. such as "I'vee seen that guy and he's OK"

My comment on prostitution stings was not specific to this case. Criminals don't willingly talk to cops. See above

Legalizing prostitution will not cahnge what they do by itself but how is locking them up and giving them a criminal record helping. In the cases of the drug addicted prostitute who does it for drugs or a pimp it is not helping to just keep throwing them in jail.

You obviously have very conservative veiwpoints and I have very liberal ones. It seems the only common ground between us is the dirt under our tires.

You are right. I am not normally involved in a criminal activity. I guess that makes me nieve and uncool. I have a conservative view point. Remember, I see you from the other side. Conservative people have been given a bad rap.....as far as I am concerned

I guess since you are of the "criminal mindset" you can better judge how laws should be written.
So you say making it illegal isn't helping......so logically making it legal is the answer. I challenge that thinking.

Making prostitution legal would not have made Ridgeways conviction any easier or quicker. I feal that your assumptions of what would happen and the extent to their effects, if made legal are grossly over estimated. He would still have killed the woman and we would still not have had enough to catch him. So again legalizing prostitution and linking it to being a benefit with regard to this case is a real stretch. No matter how clear it may seem to you (and I guess the same goes for me )

I guess I am an imbomination. I ride MTB and have a conservative opinion. I am so wierd, no I am evil! I should really be made illegal as everything I think is inherantly wrong or close minded. Oh woa is me.

Like you said we having biking in common and I fear the day that we are all conservative or liberal. I think we would all be better off if both sides existed because they are used to describe two extreme ends of us as a society. Hopefully we can meet somewhere in the middle with compramise and get through life.

Rhino

 

[RhinofromWA]

Originally posted by LordOpie
Since the death penalty doesn't deter criminals, the only other reason for it is to prevent a murdered from killing again. So long as the guy is in prison, he can't do that in general society.

The families should be kept posted. If the guy escapes, the families should go hunting.

Then it comes down to money (mostly) and the crime committed.

Why pay to keep a murderer of 48+ women fed with a roof over his head? When he chose under his own power to snuff the lifes of all these people. If there ever was a case for the death penalty I beleive this guy fits.

Are describing some sort of Running Man game? What if he wins? LOL!

I don't care how it is done....humane or not. It is sometimes fun to think he will suffer like his victoms did. But I would vote for humane (as little pain as neccessary) when/if it came down to it. I think nowing that the will be dieing for what they did is enough, but I do believe he should die.

 

[brock]

Originally posted by RhinofromWA
You are right. I am not normally involved in a criminal activity. I guess that makes me nieve and uncool. I have a conservative view point. Remember, I see you from the other side. Conservative people have been given a bad rap.....as far as I am concerned

I guess since you are of the "criminal mindset" you can better judge how laws should be written.
So you say making it illegal isn't helping......so logically making it legal is the answer. I challenge that thinking.

Making prostitution legal would not have made Ridgeways conviction any easier or quicker. I feal that your assumptions of what would happen and the extent to their effects, if made legal are grossly over estimated. He would still have killed the woman and we would still not have had enough to catch him. So again legalizing prostitution and linking it to being a benefit with regard to this case is a real stretch. No matter how clear it may seem to you (and I guess the same goes for me )

I guess I am an imbomination. I ride MTB and have a conservative opinion. I am so wierd, no I am evil! I should really be made illegal as everything I think is inherantly wrong or close minded. Oh woa is me.

Like you said we having biking in common and I fear the day that we are all conservative or liberal. I think we would all be better off if both sides existed because they are used to describe two extreme ends of us as a society. Hopefully we can meet somewhere in the middle with compramise and get through life.

Rhino

Never did I say you were uncool or nieve or uncool. I was simply verifying that you have not and pointing out that I was drawing my opinion from personal experience. If that's how you took it. I'm sorry.

Re-stating my position in your words followed by rolling eyes is not a very good way to meet it the middle IMO.

 

[golgiaparatus]

Originally posted by RhinofromWA
I should really be made illegal

Thats it! :angry: :devil: :

 

[RhinofromWA]

Originally posted by golgiaparatus
Thats it! :angry: :devil: :

 

[RhinofromWA]

Originally posted by brock
Never did I say you were uncool or nieve or uncool. I was simply verifying that you have not and pointing out that I was drawing my opinion from personal experience. If that's how you took it. I'm sorry.

Re-stating my position in your words followed by rolling eyes is not a very good way to meet it the middle IMO.

Yeah I probably took it different than it was intended.....wait yooooooou used "uncool" twoooooo times........ what are you saying man?! LOL! j/k

I was rolling my eyes about that being that I generaly now or in the past broken the law severly to warrant getting into trouble (I put it that way because I am sure I have broken rules in my life time at one time or another) somehow makes my opinion flawed. That tends to get to me....probably another reason I took things different than intended.

Meeting in the middle part was sincer (even if I can't spell sincere )and not meant as a wise crack. I think if either end was in charge of everything, we would be a lot worse off.

 

[ohio]

In an attempt to totally derail this thread, I think it's interesting that we all (including me) want to see a brutal torturous death of this guy who destroyed 40 lives and horribly affected 100s more, but we're pretty happy with 20 years (and they'll only get 10 at best) in a cushy prison for guys like Ken Lay and Dennis Kozlowski who have ruined 10s of 1000s of lives.

 

[RhinofromWA]

Read this at lunch. It is a quick read and he has some interesting things to say.

From the Seattle Weekly: (hey it was free at the Terriaky place)

Link to article

SO THE GREEN RIVER KILLER has confessed.
As we ponder the real face of the real killer—and as we try to understand what motivates such men—we must also consider what to do with them.

In the Green River case, the prosecutors have struck a deal with Gary Ridgway to take the death penalty off the table in exchange for information that will clear 48 murder cases and offer some semblance of closure to the victims' families. There's a case to be made that some cases are exceptional, and this surely is one: The biggest known serial-killing spree in American history, a decades-long saga of slow, relentless slaughter of the innocent and the outcast.

Resolving it is an important, imperfect triumph of sorts.

Knowing who the killer is and preventing him from ever killing again is vital to restoring our community's health.

Yet Americans seem increasingly uncomfortable with the death penalty, and some opponents of it say the prosecutor's Green River bargain raises questions: If you don't execute the Green River Killer for what he did, how can you execute anyone? The law must be just, even-handed, and applied equally.

It's a good point as far as it goes, but all cases aren't equal. And using the Ridgway deal to argue against the death penalty is absurd, because this is an example of the death penalty's effectiveness. Without the death penalty—a real, live death penalty—it's likely that the prosecutors and police wouldn't have had the leverage to get the killer to come clean and put him behind bars forever. Would Ridgway have confessed without the very real fear of losing his life? It's unlikely that he was motivated by goodwill or a spasm of conscience. Most people in his shoes would want to save their necks. Ted Bundy tried to deal his way out of death by playing games about trading information right up until the end. Robert Yates confessed to his murders in Spokane to avoid the death penalty, though his deal had a Pierce County loophole, and he wound up on death row anyway.

SO THE DEATH PENALTY provides leverage, if it's a genuine death penalty. Even so, here in Washington the job of executioner is hardly a full-time profession: 77 executions since 1904, according to the Department of Corrections. There are lengthy appeals and reviews, and occasionally loopholes, as when murderer Mitchell Rupe, while on death row, ate his way out of the noose by becoming too fat to hang. Apparently, Dr. Atkins never made it to the state pen in Walla Walla. Thanks to Rupe, the first choice for death is lethal injection; a killer has to ask for a hanging nowadays.

But does the death penalty do more? Clearly, there are major flaws in the system: There are too many innocents on death row, too many people convicted and sentenced as the result of bias, racism, and incompetence within the justice system. Such problems across the country have to be addressed, even if it means more moratoriums, as in Illinois.

On the other hand, the death penalty is in need of fixing, not scrapping. And there are efforts to do that. A story in the Nov. 2 New York Times describes one governor's attempt to address the issue by writing "a new kind of death penalty." Republican Mitt Romney of Massachusetts wants to ensure that only the guilty are executed by requiring a high standard of scientific proof of guilt, such as DNA evidence. Scholars question whether justice can ever be linked to perfect science—indeed, science tends to favor doubt on most days. Romney's reforms are a kind of "compassionate conservative's" death penalty—execute only the guilty. Who could argue with that, except those who don't believe in the death penalty at all, or those who are recklessly bloodthirsty?

Should the standard of proof be high for the death penalty? Absolutely. Should we do everything possible to make sure the system is fair and just? Of course. Should we execute the retarded? Of course not. Should the death penalty be rare? I think so.

BUT IT SHOULD be there. As in the Green River case, it can be a tool to gain cooperation and a semblance of closure in an unprecedented case. At other times, it can restore the general public's faith in society: There are some crimes that demand payment of the ultimate price. No adult's life should be so sacred that one can expect always to get away with murder.

The Green River Killer ought to swing. But the death penalty is also a poker chip. Sometimes it works even without a hanging.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

kberger@seattleweekly.com

Link to article

 

[Damn True]

So, if by chance they could prove that he killed someone OTHER than one of the 48 he admits to killing can they try him seperately for THAT crime and seek the death penalty?

I mean now that they have him they should be able to find a DNA link via hair, skin, or fluids right?

 

[RhinofromWA]

Originally posted by ohio
In an attempt to totally derail this thread, I think it's interesting that we all (including me) want to see a brutal torturous death of this guy who destroyed 40 lives and horribly affected 100s more, but we're pretty happy with 20 years (and they'll only get 10 at best) in a cushy prison for guys like Ken Lay and Dennis Kozlowski who have ruined 10s of 1000s of lives.

I had to do a quick search.

Tyco and Enron right (or the other way around)

The big difference is they didn't wrap their hands around someones throat and wait for them to go limp. They are bastards, just different bastards. Should we put them to death for a white collar crime? For taking money.......lots of money......and ruining peoples lives (they are still breathing)

Ridgeway is a killer.

These guys got away with financial crap you aren't supposed to.

I guess I would need to look into it more....Life w/o parole? If Ridgeway doesn't get the death penatly then these guys don't deserve it.

 

[RhinofromWA]

Originally posted by Damn True
So, if by chance they could prove that he killed someone OTHER than one of the 48 he admits to killing can they try him seperately for THAT crime and seek the death penalty?

I mean now that they have him they should be able to find a DNA link via hair, skin, or fluids right?

they haven't found bodies of the rest........from what I understand they prosecuted on the ones that were found.

And yes they can try him on others. He was a top suspect for most of the time the killings were happening, but before DNA and the like science proceedures they couldn't get enough to convict.

 

[ohio]

Originally posted by RhinofromWA
I had to do a quick search.

Tyco and Enron right (or the other way around)

The big difference is they didn't wrap their hands around someones throat and wait for them to go limp. They are bastards, just different bastards. Should we put them to death for a white collar crime? For taking money.......lots of money......and ruining peoples lives (they are still breathing)

We're not just talking about cheating and stealing; the money lost will prevent (through loss of pension fund) tens of thousands of retirees (among others) from being able to afford proper health care. Many will die earlier than otherwise as a result. Is that murder? Probably not... so my question is, which is worse:

1. to kill 48
2. to be responsible for the deaths of thousands

 

[LordOpie]

...because this is an example of the death penalty's effectiveness. Without the death penalty—a real, live death penalty—it's likely that the prosecutors and police wouldn't have had the leverage to get the killer to come clean and put him behind bars forever.

well said.

 

[Skookum]

I saw on the news an incident involving a prostitute escaping the green river killer years ago. She was in his truck and seen some hair on the floorboard. Ridgeway said it was hair from a manakin (sp.). She bolted and ran to a trailer house where a couple allowed her in and kept Ridgeway from ultimately catching her and killing her. She convinced the couple who helped her from calling the police for fear of getting arrested. So Brock's argument holds water.
I fully believe that Ridgeway will be revisited for another trial in which the death penalty will be dealt. I've always believed that the death penalty shouldn't be given out like candy, but i feel it's more than justifiable and responsible to put someone down like Ridgeway. It's gonna happen it's just a matter of time.

 

[Skookum]

Originally posted by ohio
We're not just talking about cheating and stealing; the money lost will prevent (through loss of pension fund) tens of thousands of retirees (among others) from being able to afford proper health care. Many will die earlier than otherwise as a result. Is that murder? Probably not... so my question is, which is worse:

1. to kill 48
2. to be responsible for the deaths of thousands

I like the bridge your trying to build but i just don't think you can span the gap you got.

 

[ohio]

Originally posted by Skookum
I like the bridge your trying to build but i just don't think you can span the gap you got.

I tend to agree, I just really wanted in on this thread but had no interest in talking about serial killers...

 

[slein]

i'm against the state and church of having ULTIMATE power like this - the death penalty.

its revenge. its inhumaine. having it adds to the FEAR stigma that if we don't kill, we'll get killed.

i'd say irony if i thought it was the correct werd....