fair enough, figured it was worth asking.
Guerrilla Gravity, badass frame manufacturer in Colorado
- Thread starter mtg
- Start date
blue suede shoes? blue square tubes
LOL
Is that a thing?
I know right...
I point my bike down the hill with my fatass on it. Doesn't matter if it's a green or double black, the bike better damn well carry me through it.
Maybe that's why my Transition Scout cracked? Bromont was rough on it, but its a bike. Should be able to handle trails.
I would bet "Blue square approved" isn't even a real thing, sounds like a line customer service gives to try to put out a fire. Right up there with the "prototype/preproduction swingarms" from pole or Rocky mountain. Or Gwin's Prototype E13 Cranks that were put on by mistake.
If Blue square approved is really a thing they may want to reconsider, It would be way more damaging for that to get out than just misalignment issues.
i actually managed to read through the entire thread. based on a post from earlier today it sounds like the shock mount on the front triangle is what's causing the misalignment?
sorry for getting nerdy here, i do a lot of RCA as part of non-conformance investigation at my job.
My reading on the "Blue Square Approved" chainstays is just another way of saying "because these stays are attached to a 120 mm trail bike, they are not as burly as the ones that will be on the Gnarvana...but it turns out some people ride Trail Pistols like Gnarvanas, so we're going to replace them with Gnarvana stays at no cost to the customer". So while certainly less than ideal, I very much suspect a lot of other companies would just continue to blame the customer for "over-riding" their trail bike and offer a crash replacement for the same stays (at best).
The blue square thing is pretty stupid, mainly because it came up after people had bought the frames. I've ridden my Al seat-stay Pistol on plenty of black diamonds so I'd have just assumed that the carbon was the same bike but more carbony, to find out otherwise after placing the order is lame. If they'd have stated it right off the bat then I see no issue, the Smash and Pistola are so close that there honestly should be more to differentiate them, a super light Pistol that's not really meant for park days makes sense. What's the point of a modular frame if there's not much difference between each iteration?
As far as the rest of that shit-show, well, it's a shit show. GG is definitely experiencing some growing pains, and have been for a while now. My bike took about double the lead time I was quoted, which sucked, but it's the bike industry, I always assume lead times are a lie. However, so see that they're still hilariously wrong a year later is pretty lame. Just say "Due to Covid and global shortages lead times are running much longer" and add 406 weeks to all quoted times, bam, problem solved. Seems like they're right there on the make-or-break teeter totter that all small businesses ride, may be time to get a real business consultant in to make sure they minimize their missteps while expanding.
TBH, based on his side of the story, I'm not sure I fully trust the OP's ability to diagnose the problem, that's a major pitfall of the direct to consumer model. There's a few really simple things to check that it seems he didn't. Not that the customer should have to be a master tech to get things taken care of, but something doesn't sound right there. With the amount of misalignment noted that shock should have been a bitch to remove, and aside from installing it upside down to see if the problem shifted, I'd have bolted it into the link to see if it was infact the front triangle that's screwed up, maybe got a straight edge out too. GG is agreeing to pay return shipping cost for inspection, as they likely should, the only thing I'd say they're really handling "wrong" is that OP shouldn't be on the hook for shipping it back to him if the problem is determined to be a manufacturing defect. Yes GG's warranty policy says he'd be responsible, but there's a warranty policy and a warranty policy, if a brand new frame is this much of a soup sandwich and it made it through your QC department like that, you eat the cost and take it as a lesson learned.
Some of the comments though, WTF. "I bet they wouldn't charge Yoan shipping" Yeah, no shit, but they don't charge him for frames either.
As far as the rest of that shit-show, well, it's a shit show. GG is definitely experiencing some growing pains, and have been for a while now. My bike took about double the lead time I was quoted, which sucked, but it's the bike industry, I always assume lead times are a lie. However, so see that they're still hilariously wrong a year later is pretty lame. Just say "Due to Covid and global shortages lead times are running much longer" and add 406 weeks to all quoted times, bam, problem solved. Seems like they're right there on the make-or-break teeter totter that all small businesses ride, may be time to get a real business consultant in to make sure they minimize their missteps while expanding.
TBH, based on his side of the story, I'm not sure I fully trust the OP's ability to diagnose the problem, that's a major pitfall of the direct to consumer model. There's a few really simple things to check that it seems he didn't. Not that the customer should have to be a master tech to get things taken care of, but something doesn't sound right there. With the amount of misalignment noted that shock should have been a bitch to remove, and aside from installing it upside down to see if the problem shifted, I'd have bolted it into the link to see if it was infact the front triangle that's screwed up, maybe got a straight edge out too. GG is agreeing to pay return shipping cost for inspection, as they likely should, the only thing I'd say they're really handling "wrong" is that OP shouldn't be on the hook for shipping it back to him if the problem is determined to be a manufacturing defect. Yes GG's warranty policy says he'd be responsible, but there's a warranty policy and a warranty policy, if a brand new frame is this much of a soup sandwich and it made it through your QC department like that, you eat the cost and take it as a lesson learned.
Some of the comments though, WTF. "I bet they wouldn't charge Yoan shipping" Yeah, no shit, but they don't charge him for frames either.
This legit issue is nothing compared to the boat load of horror stories I was hearing about YT which I was considering when I made my purchase.
Hell my Trail Pistol came shipped with a few issues. I just thought that is a given in the bike biz
Hell my Trail Pistol came shipped with a few issues. I just thought that is a given in the bike biz
clearly nobody in that thread ever built a DH bike in the late 90's or early 2000s.This legit issue is nothing compared to the boat load of horror stories I was hearing about YT which I was considering when I made my purchase.
Hell my Trail Pistol came shipped with a few issues. I just thought that is a given in the bike biz
i don't know if it would have been all that difficult, but it certainly would have been noticeable.
blue square rated? lolz. i've still got a 2005 Kona Dawg in regular circulation that sees plenty of lift service days. you can bet your ass it only sees black diamond trails even 16 years later...
Yeah, DH bikes sucked back then, complete bike from the manufacturer. Only thing that went smooth was pedal installation.clearly nobody in that thread ever built a DH bike in the late 90's or early 2000s.
seems as they've now made an offer to the OP...
"We will still cover the return shipping and waive the 5% restocking fee, both of which are clearly outlined in our return policy terms"
still trying to act like it wasn't their fault though. return policy isn't the same as sending back a junk frame you should have never gotten in the first place....
"We will still cover the return shipping and waive the 5% restocking fee, both of which are clearly outlined in our return policy terms"
still trying to act like it wasn't their fault though. return policy isn't the same as sending back a junk frame you should have never gotten in the first place....
Thermoplastic, could just hit it with a heat gun and bend it back where it belongs. Customize your head angle while you're at it.
I agree that frame shouldn't have left the factory. That said, in all fairness mistakes happen and they seem to be doing everything they can to make it right.
From the original post, according to GG it passed inspection:
based on this, i'm operating under the assumption that they keep some manner of production batch record, pulled it, reviewed it, and were able to verify the inspection for this criteria did indeed pass. if this is the case, the misalignment would have occurred after it was shipped out. if this isn't the case, and the records were falsified, some might be getting fired.
Sounds like a blanket response anyone would say to me
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Or, lying about it would expose them (gg) to additional liability had this guy taken legal action.
Right on...my former roommate had a 2005 Dawg and it was a cool bike for the time, and didn't break...which it fucking shouldn't given that it weighed more than my car.
But questionable terminology aside, this seems like GG doing the right thing by offering replacement stays at no cost to the customer. We can debate why there was an issue in the first place, but again, the vast majority of bike companies would just tell the customer they didn't use the bike as intended and stick them with a crash replacement charge for new stays (and send them the same stays with no improvements). I guess SC doesn't have "black diamond stays" given that @jstuhlman and @StiHacka broke theirs...to SCs credit, they eventually made it right, but I don't think it happened particularly quick or easy - they can add to this in case I'm mistaken.
Hi All!
Just wanted to share that the OP on MTBR is in touch with GG Customer Service and it sounds like they have found a happy outcome for the OP. The bike in question is en route back to GG so it can get inspected and compared against QC logs (that both MTG and I have access to and frequently review).
I will be paying close attention to the outcome of the inspection and will transparently communicate with the OP to bring closure on the matter with 'em.
As always, please feel free to share questions here or via DM to me.
Best,
Marshal
(the GG marketing director)
Just wanted to share that the OP on MTBR is in touch with GG Customer Service and it sounds like they have found a happy outcome for the OP. The bike in question is en route back to GG so it can get inspected and compared against QC logs (that both MTG and I have access to and frequently review).
I will be paying close attention to the outcome of the inspection and will transparently communicate with the OP to bring closure on the matter with 'em.
As always, please feel free to share questions here or via DM to me.
Best,
Marshal
(the GG marketing director)
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If anyone cares, I wrote that letter with the intent to make the language easily understandable for ALL rider levels.
The punchline is that once mtg saw use "outside of intended" with the fully revved Trail Pistol (hard bottom-outs on national-level DH race tracks, hard bottom-outs from large fat-to-flat drops), he asked me to proactively reach out to the owners of this bike, with the following intention:
(a) proactively communicate that GG is making an iterative update to this bike,
(b) that Guerrilla Gravity will give this update (for free) to every Fully Revved Trail Pistol owner,
(c) That the bike, as it sits today, is good to ride as a trail bike
(d) clarify what trails/features may or may not be recommended.
Hope that helps clarify! Cheers.
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Thanks Marshal, and fwiw, it was clear to me what the intent was. But as usual, no good deed goes unpunished.
BTW, I was thinking about making a go at ascending K2, and was wondering if your hip pack is the best (and only) pack to bring? Just let me know!
BTW, I was thinking about making a go at ascending K2, and was wondering if your hip pack is the best (and only) pack to bring? Just let me know!
Lol I hucked a klein mantra till it died almost right away...if it has a shock it's for hucking...did someone not make you aware of this known now fact!!!!
If you build it, they will huck it!!!
The pack is actually the ONLY thing you need. Leave the clothes, shoes, oxygen at home.
Does your pack have a condom pocket? Because a player like Jackalope might need one at base camp.
I’d go back and delete them since GG came thru, but I don’t think that’s really necessary since you all know I’m an asshole already.
Ive just been left hanging out to dry before after dropping some G’s on a new frame that was faulty and was denied and ignored enough I finally sucked it up and moved on. I’ll yell and scream with anyone to make sure it doesn’t happen to them. Props to GG for doing the right thing…
Just suffered through the rest of the MTBR thread. My takeaway. While we can all agree that this was not an ideal interaction between customer and company, I can't help feeling like if all of us were judged by our performance or outcomes on our worst day with total disregard for the positives that we may bring on a daily basis, we'd all come out looking pretty fucking rough. As someone performing invasive procedures on people's eyes, I can speak to this with great personal knowledge. In the end, the situation was resolved to the satisfaction of the customer. No one died or was irreversibly damaged. Nothing is perfect 100% of the time--deal with it and move on with life.
The righteous indignation flying around MTBR is breathtaking, almost not worth having a presence there if a crew as generally excellent as the guys/gals at GG ends up with a customer service rant being their most viewed thread.
The righteous indignation flying around MTBR is breathtaking, almost not worth having a presence there if a crew as generally excellent as the guys/gals at GG ends up with a customer service rant being their most viewed thread.
quoted for posterity
