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Guerrilla Gravity, badass frame manufacturer in Colorado

Jm_

sled dog's bollocks
Jan 14, 2002
15,123
6,542
AK
The bike is probably going to sit for a while now until the spring. I do appreciate these offers though and I make take some of them up closer to that time if they are still valid.
 

ianjenn

Turbo Monkey
Sep 12, 2006
2,916
643
SLO
One other idea. I have been riding a lot of very rough trails lately and have been really speeding up my rebound (nearly wide open on properly valved shocks), while still running a good bit of compression damping. I revert to a middle-ish rebound setup on normal trails that are like "half buff" and "half rough".

Not a setup for every trail, for sure, but this has really opened up the shock for certain trails. @mtg thinks I am crazy, but hey, just tossing it out there as something you might try.

Central California is pretty rocky and most run a pretty fast rebound in this area as well.
 

Jm_

sled dog's bollocks
Jan 14, 2002
15,123
6,542
AK
Or does that mean your HSR is too slow and you are having to give up chassis stability instead of blending LSR and HSR to do both? I know sometimes you just have to open the LSR more, but going full snap open usually gives up stability and control.
 

Andeh

Customer Title
Mar 3, 2020
538
520
Just basing that on his response to @mtg. He seems to have established that 155mm “should be enough” and total travel is a priority over leverage ratio (if I am interpreting correctly). Sounds like his leverage ratio is low enough that he is feeling like he is having too much damping versus spring. I guess he would like more spring than damping as far as wheel rate feel. Over spring/under damped versus undersprung/over damped would be the brackets. Sounds like he feels like he is off too far in one direction and doesn’t have a useable adjustable range.

If he is insisting on 155 should be enough then this would be a way to have his cake and eat it too.
When I plugged the Megatrail into Linkage, this is what it spit out. I haven't done it in Gravity mode, since I don't have a good high res photo of it in that. I suppose I could take one of my own, but... effort.
Guerrilla Gravity Megatrail (Trail mode)_LevRatio.jpg
 

Leafy

Monkey
Sep 13, 2019
168
133
I'm on the fence here between the trail pistol, pistola, or Ripley AF. Tp with the cc shock and dvo sapphire, xt brakes (probably to put on my wife's tallboy to replace the guides she hates and replaced with magura), and x01. The pistola with cc shock and helm (or dvo diamond d2), xt brakes and xt drivetrain this is somehow 4 lbs claimed heavier than the Tp and for some reason the price goes up $300 when I add to cart. The whole blue rated only chain stay thing is messing with me on them, my wife hates pedaling and she really wants to try highland and Killington next year and I have a feeling she's going to love it and I'm going to end up railing a ton of highland laps given that's it's under an hour away. I don't particularly want to go with a bigger travel bike since everything I normally ride falls comfortably in the roudy XC category and the guys I've rode with from when who have bigger bikes seemed pretty miserable following me in my hardtail. Probably also important to note is that I'm 155lbs and would be getting an S2 in the gg or medium in the Ripley.
 
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Jm_

sled dog's bollocks
Jan 14, 2002
15,123
6,542
AK
I'm on the fence here between the trail pistol, pistola, or Ripley AF. Tp with the cc shock and dvo sapphire, xt brakes (probably to put on my wife's tallboy to replace the guides she hates and replaced with magura), and x01. The pistola with cc shock and helm (or dvo diamond d2), xt brakes and xt drivetrain this is somehow 4 lbs claimed heavier than the Tp and for some reason the price goes up $300 when I add to cart. The whole blue rated only chain stay thing is messing with me on them, my wife hates pedaling and she really wants to try highland and Killington next year and I have a feeling she's going to love it and I'm going to end up railing a ton of highland laps given that's it's under an hour away. I don't particularly want to go with a bigger travel bike since everything I normally ride falls comfortably in the roudy XC category and the guys I've rode with from when who have bigger bikes seemed pretty miserable following me in my hardtail. Probably also important to note is that I'm 155lbs and would be getting an S2 in the gg or medium in the Ripley.
Don't bring a 120mm bike to a park, rent a proper bike with decent travel and brakes. You are already spending so much money in gas and lift ticket and probably accommodations to ride there, riding "what you have" is lame IME when it's something along those lines. Yeah, a couple enduro riders are so feaking skilled and fearless they can leverage a bike with that kind of travel on a hardcore course and come out a little faster, but 99.99% of people are not them and even those pros/semi-pros would be a lot less closer to the ragged edge of control and injury with more travel. Just rent the proper bike. Plus, there's insurance and you can ride it worry free off a cliff.
 

Leafy

Monkey
Sep 13, 2019
168
133
Don't bring a 120mm bike to a park, rent a proper bike with decent travel and brakes. You are already spending so much money in gas and lift ticket and probably accommodations to ride there, riding "what you have" is lame IME when it's something along those lines. Yeah, a couple enduro riders are so feaking skilled and fearless they can leverage a bike with that kind of travel on a hardcore course and come out a little faster, but 99.99% of people are not them and even those pros/semi-pros would be a lot less closer to the ragged edge of control and injury with more travel. Just rent the proper bike. Plus, there's insurance and you can ride it worry free off a cliff.
I think you're misunderstanding bike park in this context. Last time I was there I saw a kid in the lift line with a full rigid with rim brakes(it may have been a hardtail with a vintage fork), it made me on the rented big bike feel a little inadequate.
 

Jm_

sled dog's bollocks
Jan 14, 2002
15,123
6,542
AK
I think you're misunderstanding bike park in this context. Last time I was there I saw a kid in the lift line with a full rigid with rim brakes(it may have been a hardtail with a vintage fork), it made me on the rented big bike feel a little inadequate.
Ok, bring your hardtail with rim brakes then?

Yeah, I see people riding all kinds of stupid stuff at parks all the time. Doesn't mean I want to be one of them. The gravity/vertical factor IMO magnifies all other effects and more travel is one of the ways to attenuate that and give you comfort and control...resulting in a good time. Parks don't even need big chunky bumps, it's the small stuff that just absolutely causes your brain to resonate because you gather speed so quickly and easily. More travel helps a lot with that.
 

6thElement

Schrodinger's Immigrant
Jul 29, 2008
11,171
8,005
Yeah, I think pretty much every resort I've ever ridden at I've seen someone on a completely inappropriate bike e.g. hybrid with rear rack. I'll happily have my DH bike, full face and armour.
 

jonKranked

Detective Dookie
Nov 10, 2005
76,958
17,408
media blackout
Ok, bring your hardtail with rim brakes then?

Yeah, I see people riding all kinds of stupid stuff at parks all the time. Doesn't mean I want to be one of them. The gravity/vertical factor IMO magnifies all other effects and more travel is one of the ways to attenuate that and give you comfort and control...resulting in a good time. Parks don't even need big chunky bumps, it's the small stuff that just absolutely causes your brain to resonate because you gather speed so quickly and easily. More travel helps a lot with that.

I rode a slalom hardtail at big bear once. What's your point?
 

Leafy

Monkey
Sep 13, 2019
168
133
So it's the tp going to break on things I <s>ride</s> hold on for dear life my aluminum hardtail on or not?
 

ianjenn

Turbo Monkey
Sep 12, 2006
2,916
643
SLO
I rode a slalom hardtail at big bear once. What's your point?
Sanjay doubled up the 2 20-30' tabletops on Westridge aboard his Evil Imperial back in 2001. Fabian Barel and a few others had to go watch him cause they couldn't believe it......nothing like a 70' huck on the Freeride HT.
 

jackalope

Mental acuity - 1%
Jan 9, 2004
7,044
4,688
in a single wide, cooking meth...
For posterity...


Which leads us to important questions -

1. When will @mtg make a Revved beach cruiser (i.e. gravel grinders are so last year, we're onto to Sand Smashers™ now)?

2. Since I think we can safely confirm Sanjay is *not* Dick Forester, anyone have a Sanjay update?
 

mtg

Green with Envy
Sep 21, 2009
1,831
1,562
Denver, CO
My notifications were not notifying me for some reason. I just saw all this conversation.

Suspension setup:
I used to run fairly soft/fast damping, and would err on the side of stiffer springs, and would run the rebound particularly fast.
Then, when the latest gen 11-6 debuted, and I was arguing with @PUSHIND about the above, Darren basically challenged me to an engineering duel: blind testing. Long story short, with modern high performance dampers, the performance is better when you err on the side of harder/slower damping and not stiffer springs. High end dampers are required, though.
If you do a parking lot test on my bike, it will feel overly damped (albeit not silly and unmovable), and may seem like it would be harsh and dead on the trail. It isn’t. Grip and control is awesome, and I’ve since done a lot more testing, and have yet to go back to the stiffer sprung/softer damped setup.

There have also been times where I find myself in what sounds like a similar situation as Jm where the bike feels harsh, and I keep backing off compression damping, and it doesn’t solve the issue. That’s now my alert that the suspension is overdue for service, or that I’m on the wrong side of the optimization curve and need to stiffen compression damping to regain a smooth, controlled ride.

For the Front Rangers, I have a few specific trail features to test these things: grip in a high speed brake bumped corner is the first open meadow on Enchanted Forest, and the new diving board drop on the classic section of Dakota Ridge is a great feature for testing grip and composure in a loose corner that is in the landing of a drop that uses almost all of the travel.

@marshalolson when your wings are fully healed, we’re going to do some tune testing. I do think your setup could be better. And if you’re talking about the shock I think you’re talking about, don’t send that to @Jm_! I’d rather lend him one of my test shocks.
 

mtg

Green with Envy
Sep 21, 2009
1,831
1,562
Denver, CO
What to ride at a bike park, in my opinion:
This depends largely on what bike park and what trails you’re riding.
If you’re like most monkeys, “bike park” obviously means you’re sending a Vanderham line in Virgin, UT and need a KX450 with the engine removed.
For the rest of the mere mortals, in most cases, I think quality trumps quantity.
For example, I’d rather ride my Gnarvana with 160/170mm of travel and @PUSHIND shock, a Fox Grip2 or Rockshox Ultimate level fork, and everything on the bike is in good working order rather than a clapped out 200mm travel rental bike with low end suspension where the lube is 60% oil and 40% decomposed granite from 30 days of park riding and 0 maintenance.
 

kidwoo

Artisanal Tweet Curator
Aug 25, 2003
32,365
7,422
The old timey times
I think you're misunderstanding bike park in this context. Last time I was there I saw a kid in the lift line with a full rigid with rim brakes(it may have been a hardtail with a vintage fork), it made me on the rented big bike feel a little inadequate.
I saw a guy on a road bike on the interstate with no shoulders because there were concrete barriers in the way once.
 

rideit

Bob the Builder
Aug 24, 2004
16,942
7,096
In the cleavage of the Tetons
What to ride at a bike park, in my opinion:
This depends largely on what bike park and what trails you’re riding.
If you’re like most monkeys, “bike park” obviously means you’re sending a Vanderham line in Virgin, UT and need a KX450 with the engine removed.
For the rest of the mere mortals, in most cases, I think quality trumps quantity.
For example, I’d rather ride my Gnarvana with 160/170mm of travel and @PUSHIND shock, a Fox Grip2 or Rockshox Ultimate level fork, and everything on the bike is in good working order rather than a clapped out 200mm travel rental bike with low end suspension where the lube is 60% oil and 40% decomposed granite from 30 days of park riding and 0 maintenance.
Funny enough, but the Jackson Hole Bike Park is fine on a hard tail/dirt jumper or 120-140 (it’s all manicured flow, except for one trail).
 

ianjenn

Turbo Monkey
Sep 12, 2006
2,916
643
SLO
The amount of speed a DH bike carries at Parks vs a Trail bike is insane. I went to Northstar 3-4 years back. The people I went with were a tad slower than me. Think 10-15 seconds off a 3-4 minute track. He was able to keep me in view while on the 120mm 29" on his trail bike. Then The next day I got the DH bike out. Within 300 yards he couldn't see me any longer. I'm sure a Pro rider, I mean a factory rider you know a good one. COuld carry a good bit of speed on Karpiel or Sticks on a trail bike. But for most people, the DH bike is just gonna make it easier I feel.
 
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jonKranked

Detective Dookie
Nov 10, 2005
76,958
17,408
media blackout
The amount of speed a DH bike carries at Parks vs a Trail bike is insane. I went to Northstar 3-4 years back. The people I went with were a tad slower than me. Think 10-15 seconds off a 3-4 minute track. He was able to keep me in view while on the 120mm 29" on his trail bike. Then The next day I got the DH bike out. Within 300 years he couldn't see me any longer. I'm sure a Pro rider, I mean a factory rider you know a good one. COuld carry a good bit of speed on Karpiel or Sticks on a trail bike. But for most people, the DH bike is just gonna make it easier I feel.
one thing i observed at the bike park this summer - there were definitely a lot of dudes on enduro bikes, and even some trail bikes. i saw them in the parking lot with flats and other mechanicals more often than the guys on DH bikes.
 

StiHacka

Compensating for something
Jan 4, 2013
18,866
10,155
What's happening?
one thing i observed at the bike park this summer - there were definitely a lot of dudes on enduro bikes, and even some trail bikes. i saw them in the parking lot with flats and other mechanicals more often than the guys on DH bikes.
This. DH tracks just beat the crap out of trail bikes.
 

ianjenn

Turbo Monkey
Sep 12, 2006
2,916
643
SLO
Dude that 35LBS Enduro bike is lighter than that 38LBS DH bike BRO.

My buddy that worked at SHOWA always suggested the least amount of COmpression as possible. Not sure if that's changed but I would guess not.
 

jonKranked

Detective Dookie
Nov 10, 2005
76,958
17,408
media blackout
This. DH tracks just beat the crap out of trail bikes.
they're not even riding the DH tracks that much, they're mostly on the blue flow trails.

edit: to be fair, even those have a fair amount of rocks in it. its just how the soil is in eastern pennsyltucky. and i can tell the DH trails don't get ridden much because of the number of leaves on them in the fall compared to the other trails
 
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iRider

Turbo Monkey
Apr 5, 2008
4,492
2,088
Had a friend that drank the "ENDURO bikes descend as good as DH bikes" cool aid ride my DH bike on a fairly mellow trail. Never heard that from him again. :D
 

schwaaa31

Turbo Monkey
Jul 30, 2002
1,149
724
Clinton Massachusetts
Took my enduro bike to Thunder a few times this past season. Won’t be doing that again. There’s just no comparison for me. Some of the shitty trails were better on the enduro bike…
 

Jm_

sled dog's bollocks
Jan 14, 2002
15,123
6,542
AK
I think there's a min geometry, travel, tires, brake rotor and other similar parameters for park riding, just as the starting point and from there, if you really want to ride aggressive on the DHs, you really need a DH bike. Trying to get away with your trail bike or something with inadequate tires, brakes, etc., will just get chewed up or you'll end up fighting the bike down every decent run, rather than having a good time. Which brings up the rental issue. There are definite drawbacks, suspension tuning, some clapped out bike, but I've found with a good eye you can usually get something decent, shopping around or using one of the other rental places nearby, and if it doesn't work, after one run just come down and give it back and get a refund or a bike that works, I've done that before. Insurance is awesome and not having to care about wrecking your own bike. But yeah, people vastly under-estimate how easily and fast you gain speed with minimal grade reversals at a park. You don't need a DH bike, but it sure makes things better.