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Andeh

Customer Title
Mar 3, 2020
538
520
Yeah, I watched his videos. (*no way I'd hit anything even half the size of that stuff*) That second jump seemed to be giving him problems, seemed like he cased it about 2/3 of the time. Good durability test for that Revved chainstay!
 

Jm_

sled dog's bollocks
Jan 14, 2002
15,123
6,542
AK
I have hard times getting 29er wheels up to speed for stuff. It's fine when you have enough vertical/run in and the design is fine with 29ers, but this is one of the reasons I'm not on a Gnarvana.
 

jackalope

Mental acuity - 1%
Jan 9, 2004
7,044
4,688
in a single wide, cooking meth...
I have hard times getting 29er wheels up to speed for stuff. It's fine when you have enough vertical/run in and the design is fine with 29ers, but this is one of the reasons I'm not on a Gnarvana.
Maybe its a trail specific thing, but I've found that on jumplines with moderate grades my TP/Smash carries speed much better between jumps and requires less panic pedals on my part. Whereas when I go back to my MT (albeit with strong sized wheels) I can feel it really bleeding speed between jumps. But keep in mind I'm bad at air bikes and rely (heavily) on mph's to clear gaps rather than, ya know, actually jumping things proper.
 

Andeh

Customer Title
Mar 3, 2020
538
520
JM was referring more to acceleration (I think), rather than carrying speed. Lots of people notice the same thing... easier to accelerate a 27.5 with a couple strokes out of a corner, but once you get a 29 up to speed it carries momentum better, even on flats.
 

Leafy

Monkey
Sep 13, 2019
168
133
Whats wrong with going through the trouble of designing and manufacturing a whole new bike model so you can sell 4 of them? :thumb:

Albeit, you could probably sell all 4 on RM pretty quickly
So you're saying the should focus on the revved tandem instead? I think they'd sell at least 8 of those, yoann looked like he had more fun on that than those big jumps.
 

jackalope

Mental acuity - 1%
Jan 9, 2004
7,044
4,688
in a single wide, cooking meth...
JM was referring more to acceleration (I think), rather than carrying speed. Lots of people notice the same thing... easier to accelerate a 27.5 with a couple strokes out of a corner, but once you get a 29 up to speed it carries momentum better, even on flats.
Yeah that's certainly fair, and I kinda assumed he was talking about jumps, but I get the point for general trail riding. Although even there, I find the smaller wheels may accelerate better, but they really lose speed on chatter/moderate chunder unless its pretty steep. To me, the main fun-vantage of small wheels is the ability to turn quicker and usually well inside a 29er.

So you're saying the should focus on the revved tandem instead? I think they'd sell at least 8 of those, yoann looked like he had more fun on that than those big jumps.
I'd be down...I could be Yoann's lander spotter: nope, comin' up short on this one, which means this is probably where we go our separate ways. Au voir mon mi!
 

toodles

ridiculously corgi proportioned
Aug 24, 2004
4,168
2,804
Australia
JM was referring more to acceleration (I think), rather than carrying speed. Lots of people notice the same thing... easier to accelerate a 27.5 with a couple strokes out of a corner, but once you get a 29 up to speed it carries momentum better, even on flats.
The wagon wheels are so good at covering up mistakes that rob the smaller wheels of speed and I feel like they're less fatiguing overall.

I still believe aside from the slight traction benefit of the 29er and the more gradual drift breakaway they seem to have, a 27.5 bike can get around the same pace. But it does seem more fatiguing, and so much less forgiving of a mistake. You've got to be pretty dialled to stay in touch IME.

I really do struggle to picture a scenario where the 27.5 wheels are actually faster rather than "as fast"
 

iRider

Turbo Monkey
Apr 5, 2008
4,492
2,088
The wagon wheels are so good at covering up mistakes that rob the smaller wheels of speed and I feel like they're less fatiguing overall.

I still believe aside from the slight traction benefit of the 29er and the more gradual drift breakaway they seem to have, a 27.5 bike can get around the same pace. But it does seem more fatiguing, and so much less forgiving of a mistake. You've got to be pretty dialled to stay in touch IME.

I really do struggle to picture a scenario where the 27.5 wheels are actually faster rather than "as fast"
Here a lot of trails are build tight and twisty to get as much trail out of a small plot of land as possible. If I am on my game and on the 26" short-wheelbased funbike I can ride away from some friends on 29ers in those passages. They are fitter and have the advantage if they can pedal in a straight line.
Other advantage is that I am on a </= 740 mm handlebar. For some trails a 710 is ideal.

DSC_1226-1024x576.jpg
 

rideit

Bob the Builder
Aug 24, 2004
16,944
7,096
In the cleavage of the Tetons
I am pretty damn sure MTG is hip to this, but hey, let’s go, boys!
Plastic Man meets the Man Of Steel!

But first Slayer will have to release a song called “2DPA-1.”.
Catchy little number.
 
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I am pretty damn sure MTG is hip to this, but hey, let’s go, boys!
Plastic Man meets the Man Of Steel!

But first Slayer will have to release a song called “2DPA-1.”.
Catchy little number.
As if we need more plastics...
 

mtg

Green with Envy
Sep 21, 2009
1,831
1,562
Denver, CO
I am pretty damn sure MTG is hip to this, but hey, let’s go, boys!
Plastic Man meets the Man Of Steel!

But first Slayer will have to release a song called “2DPA-1.”.
Catchy little number.
I’ll get to that in a minute, but first we need to talk about @iRider ’s trail that has a tree on the inside of the corner, ya know, where you’re supposed to lean your bike @kidwoo should we buy him a chainsaw?
 

iRider

Turbo Monkey
Apr 5, 2008
4,492
2,088
I’ll get to that in a minute, but first we need to talk about @iRider ’s trail that has a tree on the inside of the corner, ya know, where you’re supposed to lean your bike @kidwoo should we buy him a chainsaw?
I take an electric Stihl, thankyouverymuch! :D

But you outed yourself as one of those that dumb down trails just so you can ride your 1400 mm wheelbase, 29er with 800 mm handlebars on it? Either bring the right tool for the job or learn how to ride tight stuff with your oil tanker. ;)
 
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mtg

Green with Envy
Sep 21, 2009
1,831
1,562
Denver, CO
I take an electric Stihl, thankyouverymuch! :D

But you outed yourself as one of those that dumb down trails just so you can ride your 1400 mm wheelbase, 29er with 800 mm handlebars on it? Either bring the right tool for the job or learn how to ride tight stuff with your oil tanker. ;)
Insert another quarter, try again :)
 

kidwoo

Artisanal Tweet Curator
Aug 25, 2003
32,365
7,422
The old timey times
That is what all the dirt roadie Stravassholes do. Shortcutting. ;)
The fun is in learning how to ride stuff and not change the trail. Otherwise we will all ride paved pump tracks soon.
"learning how"

.....to ride like a granpa



literally everyone can do that

Theres a very big difference between difficult to ride and shitty trail routing.

I promise you that is not challenging in any way to most people.
 
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iRider

Turbo Monkey
Apr 5, 2008
4,492
2,088
"learning how"

.....to ride like a granpa



literally everyone can do that

Theres a very big difference between difficult to ride and shitty trail routing.

I promise you that is not challenging in any way to most people.
As it is a blue trail it is supposed to be rideable by anyone, so you are right. You are also right that riding it slow is fun but not challenging. Now try to ride it as fast as you can, that is where it gets interesting.
I do not consider this shitty trail routing. It creates a trail that is save for beginners but challenging for advanced riders, allowing you to develop skills like line choice, timing, leaning, etc.. I know the US is different, but while these trails are specifically build for bikes, you find tons of hiking trails in Europe that don't flow well but are still awesome for riding if you are up for a challenge. I also knew trails in the US that were awkward to ride but crazy good fun, Mary's Peak Northridge in OR come to mind. A friend that still lives in the area told me that it has been sanitized though. A lot of stuff in Sedona falls into this category as well.
But don't you worry, the dirt roadies are sure out there and will cut down these trees and straightline the whole thing. Next time they will cut out the roots and most likely put a layer of gravel on it. That is what happens to these kind of trails over time, because why should you improve your skills when you can sanitize a trail? :disgust1:
 

lobsterCT

Monkey
Jun 23, 2015
229
291
I did a first partial bearing change out yesterday on my revved smash. The main pivot bearings and the bearings at the linkage/front triangle still felt nice and smooth, so I just did the pivots near the rear axle, and on the seat stay at the linkage.

IMG_7541.jpg


I tried to use a bearing extractor and the tap with a hammer method on the seat stay bearings, but they were pretty tight, and I felt like if I hit them hard enough to move, I risked hurting the seat stay. I ended up using a threaded push type bearing extractor, but faced the problem of the irregular surface around that bearing.

IMG_7532.jpg


Ended up using a dime and a penny to shim the extractor.

IMG_7534 (1).jpg


That worked well enough to get it done, but LobsterCT's 2 cents would be, MTG should put a small flat surface around this bearing on future iterations to make extraction easier if revved rear ends are coming for the bikes in the line up other than the Trail Pistol.

The pivots by the rear axle do have a nice flat surface, so it was simple to get those bearings out.

One thing I noticed though, when the seat stay is unbolted from the linkage, but still bolted at the rear axle, there is a lot of port to starboard wobble in the seat stay/chain stay connection. (everything is tight and slop free when fully assembled). The drive side on my bike was notably worse than the non-drive side. I think because that pivot loosened up during a ride once, and I rode on it without noticing until I got home.

The inner bearing race at this pivot is a projecting ring, that simply sits against a flat aluminum plane.

IMG_7537.jpg


IMG_7535.jpg


I'm wondering if a small inlay of W2 tool steel, or something harder than 6061, for this bearing to rest on, might improve this connection.


Anyway, none of this is a gripe, rather, its meant to be constructive criticism. My size 4 smash is my favorite bike, of all the bikes I own, or have previously owned. My riding achievement took a substantial jump up when I got this frame. All things considered, I really love it! Looking forward to whatever MTG has in store for us next.
 
"learning how"

.....to ride like a granpa



literally everyone can do that

Theres a very big difference between difficult to ride and shitty trail routing.

I promise you that is not challenging in any way to most people.
There is no ideal way to route a trail. Respect the people who took the time to build and follow the existing line. We built a chunk trail up here which a local rider decided to "improve" by removing a lot of the chunk. I was bullshit.
 

kidwoo

Artisanal Tweet Curator
Aug 25, 2003
32,365
7,422
The old timey times
There is no ideal way to route a trail. Respect the people who took the time to build and follow the existing line. We built a chunk trail up here which a local rider decided to "improve" by removing a lot of the chunk. I was bullshit.
This isn't removing chunk, it's establishing a trail corridor. I'd likely agree with you on pulling rocks but it depends on the section.

It would be one thing if routing trails like that were simply another variety.........and weren't a widespread epidemic. In the US, hiking trails are better than MTB specific trails because they actually go somewhere while the MTB shit just throws as many dumb tight curves in as possible. Not even hikers follow that shit.

It's about trail longevity and where the thing is going to end up anyway.

Instead you're going to have people braking hard right there chewing up the dirt, in a corner no less, hitting the tree anyway (IE probably not that safe for beginners), and pushing the trail out wider so people can lean without decapitating themselves. It's going to change regardless.

I respect the hell out of people who do work but 20 seconds of forethought goes a long way. And quite frankly I've been doing this stuff (trailbuilding, not riding) for far too many decades to listen to after the fact explanations from trailbuilders who put more thought into defending a thoughtless decision than they do routing a trail.

People act like a strip of cleared dirt being moved over 3 feet is some kind of personal affront. It's gonna end up there anyway for a reason. But you JUST saw what usually happens: people assume it's because people can't ride it when that has nothing to do with it. There's a potentially really fun right turn there but not at the 2mph you're going to hit it after the bar grabber turn. The mental gymnastics that go into defending poor decisions is incredible. I just wish that much thought went into thing BEFORE the dirt starts getting moved. It's really not that hard.

I'm pretty much crippled these days with what hundreds of thousands of hours of building trails has done to my back. It's not a theoretical topic with me. While you may say there's no ideal way to route a trail, all I'm asking is that people at least try for good. And decapitators on the insides of what is supposed to be a bike trail is not that.

"I take whatever is handed to me and try to improve nothing" isn't exactly my deal
 
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iRider

Turbo Monkey
Apr 5, 2008
4,492
2,088
This isn't removing chunk, it's establishing a trail corridor. I'd likely agree with you on pulling rocks but it depends on the section.

It would be one thing if routing trails like that were simply another variety.........and weren't a widespread epidemic. In the US, hiking trails are better than MTB specific trails because they actually go somewhere while the MTB shit just throws as many dumb tight curves in as possible. Not even hikers follow that shit.

It's about trail longevity and where the thing is going to end up anyway.

Instead you're going to have people braking hard right there chewing up the dirt, in a corner no less, hitting the tree anyway (IE probably not that safe for beginners), and pushing the trail out wider so people can lean without decapitating themselves. It's going to change regardless.

I respect the hell out of people who do work but 20 seconds of forethought goes a long way. And quite frankly I've been doing this stuff (trailbuilding, not riding) for far too many decades to listen to after the fact explanations from trailbuilders who put more thought into defending a thoughtless decision than they do routing a trail.

People act like a strip of cleared dirt being moved over 3 feet is some kind of personal affront. It's gonna end up there anyway for a reason. But you JUST saw what usually happens: people assume it's because people can't ride it when that has nothing to do with it. There's a potentially really fun right turn there but not at the 2mph you're going to hit it after the bar grabber turn. The mental gymnastics that go into defending poor decisions is incredible. I just wish that much thought went into thing BEFORE the dirt starts getting moved. It's really not that hard.

I'm pretty much crippled these days with what hundreds of thousands of hours of building trails has done to my back. It's not a theoretical topic with me. While you may say there's no ideal way to route a trail, all I'm asking is that people at least try for good. And decapitators on the insides of what is supposed to be a bike trail is not that.

"I take whatever is handed to me and try to improve nothing" isn't exactly my deal
Thing here is, that you get a small designated area where building trails is allowed in. So you try to get as much trail into that area as possible. That is the trail the picture is from:
The trail holds up pretty well as it has sandy soil that drains well. I ride there mainly in the winter or when I have beginners with me. I have better trails close by.

Lately most trail builders here think "flow" is the only thing that matters, and that you also should be able to experience that flow if you are a beginner. That is why most corners get berms, roots get removed and gravel put on. I wait for when they start paving shit.
FWIW: I have not built those trails and would probably build differently, but I still enjoy riding them.
 

kidwoo

Artisanal Tweet Curator
Aug 25, 2003
32,365
7,422
The old timey times
I have not built those trails and would probably build differently, but I still enjoy riding them.
See? You know too.

Looks fun on a sur ron. Looking at that elevation profile that reminds me a lot of mountain biking in Florida. If not for a suspended drivers license I have no idea how I would have bought my first mountainbike in that state