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Guerrilla Gravity, badass frame manufacturer in Colorado

pizza diavola

Monkey
Dec 3, 2013
292
535
It's unfortunate to see anyone who starts an independent bike company close the doors. It took a chance on them in 2018 and bought a frame. I've designed / built welded structures for over 20 yrs, and can sympathize with the struggle of domestic fab. Shit is not easy.
Yes, sad to hear they are closing the bike business. I bought a complete ridEgg in 2018 including a bit of customization on the build. It is still my main ride coming up on 5 years now, with original shock, wheels and seat post. No regrets, still love that bike! I doubt I would have even been aware of GG at that time if it wasn't for this thread. Thanks :monkey:
 

ianjenn

Turbo Monkey
Sep 12, 2006
2,997
702
SLO
So the latest post on FB said something like investors backed out yada yada etc. My first thought was the cost of any machines they had purchased couldn't have been over say $5 million maybe a 5-10% ROI back to the investors. But what type of legal agreement did they sign? My wife's company does fairly large real estate projects and investors can't just make a cash call and pull all funds. It's a serious PIA and can involve years of legal disputes.

Be curious to see what their numbers looked like and what their outstanding debt was.
 

jonKranked

Detective Dookie
Nov 10, 2005
85,147
23,799
media blackout
i remember a a couple years back "revved" industries popped up, seemingly as a separate entity. from their website it seemed like they were going after OEM manufacturing. wonder if/how that business relationship is impacted - if it even still exists. the revved website is still live.
 

ianjenn

Turbo Monkey
Sep 12, 2006
2,997
702
SLO
i remember a a couple years back "revved" industries popped up, seemingly as a separate entity. from their website it seemed like they were going after OEM manufacturing. wonder if/how that business relationship is impacted - if it even still exists. the revved website is still live.

Think they will go GIANT route and make bikes for others? Wonder what they would want for the GG name and have them continue to make frames.....
 

jonKranked

Detective Dookie
Nov 10, 2005
85,147
23,799
media blackout
Think they will go GIANT route and make bikes for others? Wonder what they would want for the GG name and have them continue to make frames.....
no idea, but i will say this - the OEM mnfg trend isn't limited to the bike industry. selling b2b and only having to handle manufacturing risk (cost) is much much different than the risks of selling to / interfacing with consumers.
 

maxyedor

<b>TOOL PRO</b>
Oct 20, 2005
5,496
3,140
In the bathroom, fighting a battle
So the latest post on FB said something like investors backed out yada yada etc. My first thought was the cost of any machines they had purchased couldn't have been over say $5 million maybe a 5-10% ROI back to the investors. But what type of legal agreement did they sign? My wife's company does fairly large real estate projects and investors can't just make a cash call and pull all funds. It's a serious PIA and can involve years of legal disputes.

Be curious to see what their numbers looked like and what their outstanding debt was.
I read it and assumed it had more to do with an investor/multiple investors ending their funding rather than requesting a cash-out. Curious as well about the business decisions over the last 3-4 years. Things seemed rosy until maybe a year ago and they started falling off the radar, bikes disappeared for long periods of time, wonder if they just over-expanded to meet temporary demand due to Covid and went into a debt spiral when sales fell off.


Probably never going to know TBH, and again hopefully the people behind the company move into something new/better, seemed like a good group. Makes my decision for a Pistola replacement a bit easier when the time comes, Reeb it is.
 

marshalolson

Turbo Monkey
May 25, 2006
1,770
519
I would guess the investment required to tool up and launch a new frame design doesn't make sense at the expected volumes, nor does having to sell the current bikes at ~50% off in the current marketplace, incrementally losing money on every bike sold.
 
Feb 21, 2020
785
1,068
SoCo Western Slope
Think they will go GIANT route and make bikes for others? Wonder what they would want for the GG name and have them continue to make frames.....
That was all the talk/rumors a few years ago.
Supposed to be making frames for multiple smaller US bike companies.

Then the COVID bubble burst....

The type of private investors that get involved with smaller companies like GG are asking for insane ROI. I was shocked to hear what "incubators" and start up helpers want in Colorado. For a six figure cash infusion, 300% return over 5 years is pretty common.

More likely GG and the investors saw the agreed upon ROI was not happening, than the investors simply "backing out".
 

maxyedor

<b>TOOL PRO</b>
Oct 20, 2005
5,496
3,140
In the bathroom, fighting a battle
no wao 130?
I was going to say price, but then I went to Reebs website and saw that they no longer offer the Squeeb, and it’s only SST which is same ballpark as WAO, Hope and Allied. Don’t think I want anything Foes is making. Hmm, I’m gunna have to figure out how to be richer.


Why must I care about a frames country or origin? Be a lot easier if I didnt
 

ianjenn

Turbo Monkey
Sep 12, 2006
2,997
702
SLO
I was going to say price, but then I went to Reebs website and saw that they no longer offer the Squeeb, and it’s only SST which is same ballpark as WAO, Hope and Allied. Don’t think I want anything Foes is making. Hmm, I’m gunna have to figure out how to be richer.


Why must I care about a frames country or origin? Be a lot easier if I didnt

I think if I was getting another frame and couldn't afford to pay FTW the cash for a full custom one Nicolia would be my second choice.
 

canadmos

Cake Tease
May 29, 2011
19,948
18,810
Canaderp
That was all the talk/rumors a few years ago.
Supposed to be making frames for multiple smaller US bike companies.

Then the COVID bubble burst....

The type of private investors that get involved with smaller companies like GG are asking for insane ROI. I was shocked to hear what "incubators" and start up helpers want in Colorado. For a six figure cash infusion, 300% return over 5 years is pretty common.

More likely GG and the investors saw the agreed upon ROI was not happening, than the investors simply "backing out".
Maybe they should have gone on Shark Tank?

Now they're in the shark tank with this silence on the matter. That Guerrilla Gravity MTBers facebook group is ripe with unhappy people. People that placed orders not long ago, cash paid, and now are basically getting ghosted.

:confused:
 

time-bomb

Monkey
May 2, 2008
957
21
right here -> .
This is such a bummer. The bikes and customer service were awesome. My Megatrail is the first bike I have owned that has lasted 3 seasons. I have always sold to upgrade or make a lateral move to try something new after 1 or 2 seasons. But this bike I have had no desire to sell. I've liked it so much I recently put in an order for a Shred Dogg stay and shock just a couple weeks ago not knowing they were having troubles. Of course I had no problem getting someone on the phone then to make the order and get some questions answered. Now I can't get a hold of anyone to check the status of the order and they have 820.00 from me.

Now I'm looking for a way to get my money back and looking for a new frame.
 

jonKranked

Detective Dookie
Nov 10, 2005
85,147
23,799
media blackout
Maybe they should have gone on Shark Tank?

Now they're in the shark tank with this silence on the matter. That Guerrilla Gravity MTBers facebook group is ripe with unhappy people. People that placed orders not long ago, cash paid, and now are basically getting ghosted.

:confused:
In all seriousness, Ive got speculation on 2 possible scenarios, because this is the bike industry and we're on ridemonkey

1- There's some behind the scenes stuff going on to get their ducks in a row after some significant changes and and announcement is forthcoming.

or

2- the bottom has completely fallen out, and the lights are on but nobodys home.

i really hope its not 2.
 

ianjenn

Turbo Monkey
Sep 12, 2006
2,997
702
SLO
The type of private investors that get involved with smaller companies like GG are asking for insane ROI. I was shocked to hear what "incubators" and start up helpers want in Colorado. For a six figure cash infusion, 300% return over 5 years is pretty common.
That is a straight COCAINE-level rate of return. Their $100K would buy 3 ceiling fans in a large hotel. Man, I need to get in on some of that........
 

SylentK

Turbo Monkey
Feb 25, 2004
2,283
851
coloRADo
Well if you've ever looked at the rates & terms for commercial loans....They are brutal. It's not like a home loan, by any stretch of the imagination.
 

Leafy

Monkey
Sep 13, 2019
532
345
That is a straight COCAINE-level rate of return. Their $100K would buy 3 ceiling fans in a large hotel. Man, I need to get in on some of that........
that’s what all these startups think. I almost made the move to one in my industry but after year 2 their expected revenue was optimistic and then past that Complete dreams. Like it took my current company 4-5 years and close to 100 mil in capital to make the revenue jump they were predicting.
 

Jm_

sled dog's bollocks
Jan 14, 2002
18,757
9,483
AK
And capital cost of equipment to keep production in-house. It's insane, you also have to become specialized in operation of said equipment, which is a lot more than just sending specs out. It tends to be if those machines aren't running 24/7, they are losing money, so you have to find other production volume to offset that capital cost. Trickstuff has to wait till they can put an order in at the CNC shop to make a production run. This is why lots of companies contract with CNC machine shops and others, because those shops are the experts and have the machinery and volume of work to keep them going. When you take that on, it's a giant leap forward that you have to be prepared for. As cool as it is that they are US made, this can be pretty difficult unless you are just a billionaire with money to throw at things. Will be interesting to see how it goes for similar-ideal companies. Allied is trying to keep it inhouse and it costs an arm and a leg.
 

jackalope

Mental acuity - 1%
Jan 9, 2004
7,578
5,857
in a single wide, cooking meth...
Sorry fellas, I've fighting off a lingering cold which has led me to acquiring an "unusual" quantity of Sudafed from various sources. Also, the Wifi in Walmart parking lots is spotty at best, so I haven't been able to keep up with the latest palace intrigue.

But teeth melting stimulants aside, I would be a sad panda if in fact GG has spit the bit, as I am an unmitigated fanboi. I still ride my mulletized 26" Megatrail regularly and have absolutely loved my Revved Smash. Hell, I've even absconded with Subopt's 2014 GG/DH and rode it for a (hard) week recently at Whiz and Sun Peaks, plus semi-regular gravity enhanced rock assaults at a NC lift serve. I always felt their pricing was reasonable (i.e. they were like Privateer before Privateer), the kinematics were bang on, good customer service and most importantly - Matt was a big metal fan :rockout:

I also think that a well engineered thermoplastic frame is superior to any thermoset frame and that eventually the industry™ will likely transition to this technology (for labor savings if nothing else). And that is why I am hopeful that Kranked is right about his 1st theory. As others have already stated, I could see where there is (a lot) more money to be made in other industries with their thermoplastic technology, so perhaps things are transitioning in that direction at the moment. But it would be a shame if their bike manufacturing days are over.
 

fwp

Monkey
Jun 5, 2013
410
400
I was going to say price, but then I went to Reebs website and saw that they no longer offer the Squeeb, and it’s only SST which is same ballpark as WAO, Hope and Allied. Don’t think I want anything Foes is making. Hmm, I’m gunna have to figure out how to be richer.


Why must I care about a frames country or origin? Be a lot easier if I didnt
You could Holdout for a frameworks? I like the idea of a rig designed and refined by some of the best riders in the world, the Atherton bikes look sick too. That and you would probably never see another one on the trail.
 

djjohnr

Turbo Monkey
Apr 21, 2002
2,988
1,683
Northern California
You could Holdout for a frameworks? I like the idea of a rig designed and refined by some of the best riders in the world, the Atherton bikes look sick too. That and you would probably never see another one on the trail.
Frameworks - unfortunately I'd have even less confidence in them being around long term to honor warranties

Atherton Bikes - $5300 USD...for a FRAME, plus you have to wonder how long they can stay viable as a business
 

dump

Turbo Monkey
Oct 12, 2001
8,159
4,367
Frameworks - unfortunately I'd have even less confidence in them being around long term to honor warranties

Atherton Bikes - $5300 USD...for a FRAME, plus you have to wonder how long they can stay viable as a business
Word is they are bankrolled by a very wealthy somebody… but I hear you. Not terribly confidence inspiring.
 

maxyedor

<b>TOOL PRO</b>
Oct 20, 2005
5,496
3,140
In the bathroom, fighting a battle
Atherton Bikes - $5300 USD...for a FRAME, plus you have to wonder how long they can stay viable as a business
I’m not super concerned with the company being around for warranty, I’ve only had two experiences when it comes to warranty in the MTB industry, either they company is still around and won’t honor their warranty, or they’re allegedly going under and I haven’t broken the frame. I assume there will be zero support once buying the frame, and I’m just about never wrong.

$5300 for a frame though, good googly moogly! My entire Pistola was like $900 more than that, and came with a shirt.


Actually, I think I know where GG may have gone wrong. Selling American frames for China prices, wonder what another $1000 per bike would have meant for their bottom line? Maybe they’d have sold more if they were more expensive, been working for the other big Co MTB brand.
 

Da Peach

Outwitted by a rodent
Jul 2, 2002
13,680
4,888
North Van
No ill will to GG, but I guess this is the height of first world problems, where folks like me consider going out on a limb to try out a largely unproven bike outfit, only to have it evaporate (allegedly...). I guess it's all part of the cachet of owning a boutique brand. (funny to lump the GG branding into anything called "boutique". Heh.)

My riding circle still mocks my past interest in GG (I had a deposit down for a revved megatrail frame. I had all the parts ready to roll, was just missing the frame...Numerous delays made me pull the plug.)

I have recently developed an interest in a Forbidden...

The "Fool me once" opportunity still exists, Forbidden! Likely next year... if my thumbs last that long...
 

vivisectxi

Monkey
Jan 14, 2021
462
563
yeast van
dodged that bullet, hey? i've bought bikes from 6 (!) companies that subsequently went under. i really like forbidden, so a bit hesitant to inflict my curse upon them.