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Guess the race card was inevitable

X3pilot

Texans fan - LOL
Aug 13, 2007
5,860
1
SoMD
The biggest racist in Congress (now that Byrd is dead) is complaining about racism. Go figure. Yet, she doesn't mention that Obama voted against raising the debt ceiling in 2006, along with every Democrat.

So says the lady with 2 generals' names

"I am particularly sensitive to the fact that only this president — only this one, only this one — has received the kind of attacks and disagreement and inability to work, only this one," said Jackson Lee from the House floor.
O rly????
 

sanjuro

Tube Smuggler
Sep 13, 2004
17,373
0
SF
What a load. Obama had more support than any of the recent presidents. He just blew it.
Blew what? The huge debt that Bush left? The sliding economy that Bush left? The two wars that Bush left?

Or the lovely support of tea partiers, conservos, even some liberals?
 

stoney

Part of the unwashed, middle-American horde
Jul 26, 2006
22,023
7,928
Colorado
Blew what? The huge debt that Bush left? The sliding economy that Bush left? The two wars that Bush left?

Or the lovely support of tea partiers, conservos, even some liberals?
I'll call it starting a new war, not abandoning the two wars he said he would, not standing up to wall street and the major corporations like he said he would, oh and renewing the patriot act.
 

Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
56,398
22,480
Sleazattle
Blew what? The huge debt that Bush left? The sliding economy that Bush left? The two wars that Bush left?

Or the lovely support of tea partiers, conservos, even some liberals?
Know what Bush didn't leave? The budget surplus he inherited. Know what started the surplus? Higher taxes for the wealthy. What ended the surplus? Tax cuts for the wealthy.

 

Toshi

butthole powerwashing evangelist
Oct 23, 2001
40,223
9,112
Know what Bush didn't leave? The budget surplus he inherited. Know what started the surplus? Higher taxes for the wealthy. What ended the surplus? Tax cuts for the wealthy.

Well, starting two wars and buying AARP votes with the massive Medicare Part D prescription drug giveaway also didn't help.
 

Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
56,398
22,480
Sleazattle
Well, starting two wars and buying AARP votes with the massive Medicare Part D prescription drug giveaway also didn't help.

The thing that pisses me off is the same folks that are taking the hard line on deficit spending were the same ones running up the deficit and claiming is was perfectly fine because the economy was good. Save when things are good, borrow or spend savings when things are bad. What is so ****ing difficult about that concept?
 

Toshi

butthole powerwashing evangelist
Oct 23, 2001
40,223
9,112
Their religion forces them to not admit the concept of countercyclical spending, because the ground rules are totally different when a Democrat is in the Oval Office…
 

?????

Turbo Monkey
Jun 20, 2005
1,678
2
San Francisco
Blew what? The huge debt that Bush left? The sliding economy that Bush left? The two wars that Bush left?

Or the lovely support of tea partiers, conservos, even some liberals?
The support of a large majority of the country that was ready to give him a chance after the Bush disaster.

He's increased the debt, worsened the economy and started another war without making headway on the things that he campaigned for. At some point things stop being Bush's fault and become Obama's fault too.

I didn't vote for someone that wasn't Bush. I voted for someone that I thought would change the country for the better.
 

Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
56,398
22,480
Sleazattle
The support of a large majority of the country that was ready to give him a chance after the Bush disaster.

He's increased the debt, worsened the economy and started another war without making headway on the things that he campaigned for. At some point things stop being Bush's fault and become Obama's fault too.

I didn't vote for someone that wasn't Bush. I voted for someone that I thought would change the country for the better.
Pay attention, the economy is growing. Stock market is up and companies are profitable despite plenty of tough external forces that are outside of government control: earth quakes in Japan, war in Libya causing very high energy prices. The problem is the employment rate. Companies have found during the tough times that they can do just as much with fewer people. We have become more efficient and in a way that is a good thing. The reality is as overseas competition will force a reduction in the standard of living in the US if we are to compete. Right now the economy is growing but only the wealthy are really benefiting and the wealth gap is growing. Solving the budget problems by only cutting spending that will hurt the lower and middle classes will only exacerbate the problem.
 

?????

Turbo Monkey
Jun 20, 2005
1,678
2
San Francisco
Pay attention, the economy is growing. Stock market is up and companies are profitable despite plenty of tough external forces that are outside of government control: earth quakes in Japan, war in Libya causing very high energy prices. The problem is the employment rate. Companies have found during the tough times that they can do just as much with fewer people. We have become more efficient and in a way that is a good thing. The reality is as overseas competition will force a reduction in the standard of living in the US if we are to compete. Right now the economy is growing but only the wealthy are really benefiting and the wealth gap is growing. Solving the budget problems by only cutting spending that will hurt the lower and middle classes will only exacerbate the problem.
I don't see the standard of living in Germany reducing. Their economy (employment rate) is booming right now and they make their living from the most efficient production of the highest quality goods.

Buying less, but higher quality, and thus more expensive goods would be a good move for the country. We are a country that hoards junk. As long as it's more, it has to be better. Just look at the housing here. What is the number one factor on the price of a home? Square footage. Do you determine the price of your car, bike, electronics or clothes based on how big they are? Of course not. Quality trumps quantity in terms of value.

Americans will never make junk cheaper than the Chinese, unless they want to live like them. They also won't buy American made junk at higher prices when they can get high quality products for the same price elsewhere.

What I'm getting at is that more schooling is needed. Blue collar jobs should not be something for people that didn't go to college. They're the ones that actually make the things that people sitting in offices dream up. Why is it that in America, being a carpenter is frowned upon, but in Germany you are considered a skilled craftsman with generous pay?
 

sanjuro

Tube Smuggler
Sep 13, 2004
17,373
0
SF
The support of a large majority of the country that was ready to give him a chance after the Bush disaster.

He's increased the debt, worsened the economy and started another war without making headway on the things that he campaigned for. At some point things stop being Bush's fault and become Obama's fault too.

I didn't vote for someone that wasn't Bush. I voted for someone that I thought would change the country for the better.
Started another war? I know our invasion of Libya hasn't gone too well, like D-Day combined with The Bay Of Pigs. But I'm sure when we send in a another million troops, we will win.

We dropped some bombs on Libya. Big deal.

And yes, we should try to balance the budget during a depression. Hoover did it, and he initiated the Great Depression.

My thing is that Obama is doing a good job considering all the hurdles he has to overcome. I think about Carter, who did a horrendous job outside of the Sinai, and Obama is doing ok.

But there is so much politicking, even his own side hates him for not sending the country into the brink by giving away everything for some liberal fantasy.
 

?????

Turbo Monkey
Jun 20, 2005
1,678
2
San Francisco
We dropped $800,000,000 on Libya. Big deal.
Exactly


And I know the US Military wants bases in every country around the world, but can we at least charge the countries that benefit from our services? If they don't want them, we can leave until they decide that they need them and are willing to pay.
 

$tinkle

Expert on blowing
Feb 12, 2003
14,591
6
I didn't vote for someone that wasn't Bush. I voted for someone that I thought would change the country for the better.
any specifics come to mind?
Companies have found during the tough times that they can do just as much with fewer people. We have become more efficient and in a way that is a good thing.
quite true, and as a direct result we have this:
Right now the economy is growing but only the wealthy are really benefiting and the wealth gap is growing.
i crank out more than 3X from only 5 yrs ago, but i didn't get 3X smarter. companies who are thriving now either evolved w/ their widget manufacturing methodologies, or are wise to those who said they can only create at a fixed wattage. i still keep in touch w/ my ex-co-workers @ raytheon/northrop, and while upper mgmt relationships are still strong, when the good ol boy system fails to deliver, there will be some roosting chickens. DoD-wise, there's going to be a significant culture change, but i don't think it will be the nightmarish scenario of turning most private sector jobs into proper GS positions. or at least, i don't see that as sustainable. also, innovation tends to come from outside consultants, not "i'm punching this clock until i retire at 55" types.
But there is so much politicking, even his own side hates him for not sending the country into the brink by giving away everything for some liberal fantasy.
i'll give obama this: he has come around on a few things (mostly war policy), or at least knows he cannot affect his previously advertised change in the current environment. the pure leftists cannot hear this, and i'm curious if their numbers will remain significant & if they will continue to support him
 

?????

Turbo Monkey
Jun 20, 2005
1,678
2
San Francisco
any specifics come to mind?
Yea... the rest of the world doesn't hate us *as much* because of who our president is.

Other than that... no change for the better.

For example: up through the Spring of 2008 there was an average of about one hundred firms each year that were paying a couple of hundred dollars to get a copy of student resumes from my school and to rent a table at the internship fair. The past three years... ten, give or take a few. Not only that, but they were offering signing bonuses to lure students to their firm. This past year, I would estimate that about 15% of the graduates have gotten a job in the field since graduating in May.
 

sanjuro

Tube Smuggler
Sep 13, 2004
17,373
0
SF
Exactly


And I know the US Military wants bases in every country around the world, but can we at least charge the countries that benefit from our services? If they don't want them, we can leave until they decide that they need them and are willing to pay.
We spent trillions more in Afghanistan and Iraq.

I'm against all the fighting, but my point is that the Republicans aren't objecting because of the cause. They are just using it for political capital because the Republicans are always for war.
 

$tinkle

Expert on blowing
Feb 12, 2003
14,591
6
Yea... the rest of the world doesn't hate us *as much* because of who our president is.
well, that might have to be amended to be "the rest of the non-arab world": James Zogby: US Popularity in Arab Nations Plummets Under Obama

now, i realize it's newsmax, so there will be some opinion sprinkled in w/ the results, but i'm sure if you took 30 sec to get the raw data it would support the headline.

so what's obama's problem? not sure why the arab world be trippin -- they have been getting uppity since feb. i can't imagine their opinion of obama being less favorable is personal, but rather the u.s. in general.
For example: up through the Spring of 2008 there was an average of about one hundred firms each year that were paying a couple of hundred dollars to get a copy of student resumes from my school and to rent a table at the internship fair. The past three years... ten, give or take a few. Not only that, but they were offering signing bonuses to lure students to their firm. This past year, I would estimate that about 15% of the graduates have gotten a job in the field since graduating in May.
i'm guessing that's more of an economical decision w/o regard to our popularity in general. those indians are really starting to flood the market w/ adequately skilled workers; only DoD is immune from the crush.
I'm against all the fighting, but my point is that the Republicans aren't objecting because of the cause. They are just using it for political capital because the Republicans are always for war.
ninja please; if they are so pro-war, there are more worthy causes to fight for [darfur & congo come to mind]. republicans (and democrats, it should be noted) are in large part for geopolitical stability. it's just that democrats are leveraged by the "give peace a chance" crowd, and as i noted above, there's a large part of this world who cannot be easily reasoned with. republicans & their base are quicker to "get **** done", and less inclined to paint "no war" across their down-trodden milk bags in People's Park
 

dante

Unabomber
Feb 13, 2004
8,807
9
looking for classic NE singletrack
The support of a large majority of the country that was ready to give him a chance after the Bush disaster.

He's increased the debt, worsened the economy and started another war without making headway on the things that he campaigned for. At some point things stop being Bush's fault and become Obama's fault too.

I didn't vote for someone that wasn't Bush. I voted for someone that I thought would change the country for the better.
And the fact that you're now disillusioned with him means that the Republican tactic of opposing him on EVERYTHING is working brilliantly...
 

$tinkle

Expert on blowing
Feb 12, 2003
14,591
6
And the fact that you're now disillusioned with him means that the Republican tactic of opposing him on EVERYTHING is working brilliantly...
ok then, what expectations did you have of him that he has so far successfully met? granted, getting obl was cool & all, but i'm having a hard time guessing what someone who isn't blindly cumdrunk for him would tick off as his top 3 greatest accomplishments. DADT? GM? HCR?

not trying to hate; i just see him as more of the same / business as usual. youbetcha even palin could do that.
 

dante

Unabomber
Feb 13, 2004
8,807
9
looking for classic NE singletrack
This is what I see him having accomplished so far.

Look, I wish that HCR had been better, but when every GOPper lines up and blocks it, you make do with what you can accomplish. Same on Gitmo. Same on Iraq/Afghanistan (both following the general promises that he made, including increasing troops in Afghanistan for a time, and pulling combat troops out of Iraq).

I don't agree with probably 50% of what Obama has done/accomplished. I don't agree with 100% of what the GOP is proposing. Let's see, they advocate pulling back on stimulus projects, anti-abortion bills, revenue-destroying tax cuts, more wars (full-on invasion of Iran, instead of a limited bombing campaign in Libya), less financial regulations, (less regulation of *everything, food, environment, drugs, etc), and so on.

I stopped believing that I could get everything I wanted when I found out Santa Claus wasn't real...
 

Silver

find me a tampon
Jul 20, 2002
10,840
1
Orange County, CA
not abandoning the two wars he said he would, not standing up to wall street and the major corporations like he said he would, oh and renewing the patriot act.
For the bold part, Obama never said he was going to get out of Afghanistan. He actually said he was going to escalate and he did. I thought he was just talking tough so the the GOP wouldn't call him a pussy. Turns out he made the political lie with regards to a public option for healthcare but was deadly serious about killing kids in Afghanistan and Pakistan with drones. Now, we aren't out of Iraq, so failing marks on that one for sure.

As for the underlined part, I find it hilarious that you feel free to criticize him for that. 2 years ago you would have been screaming about how Obama was trying to destroy the entire capitalist (giggle) system that makes America great.

Now, the patriot act part: On civil liberties, Obama has arguably been WORSE than Bush. (If you're a white guy. Maher Arar might disagree with me there...)
 

sanjuro

Tube Smuggler
Sep 13, 2004
17,373
0
SF
ninja please; if they are so pro-war, there are more worthy causes to fight for [darfur & congo come to mind]. republicans (and democrats, it should be noted) are in large part for geopolitical stability. it's just that democrats are leveraged by the "give peace a chance" crowd, and as i noted above, there's a large part of this world who cannot be easily reasoned with. republicans & their base are quicker to "get **** done", and less inclined to paint "no war" across their down-trodden milk bags in People's Park
That is actually a complaint of mine, which is if we are so quick to invade, why not Darfur? Why not North Korea?

Would it be is that we do not care about freedom as much as oil or easy victories?
 

$tinkle

Expert on blowing
Feb 12, 2003
14,591
6
That is actually a complaint of mine, which is if we are so quick to invade, why not Darfur? Why not North Korea?

Would it be is that we do not care about freedom as much as oil or easy victories?
i've typed & re-typed my response to this for 5-10 min, and cannot come up w/ a serious answer.

many cynical ones abound, however.
 

dante

Unabomber
Feb 13, 2004
8,807
9
looking for classic NE singletrack
As for the underlined part, I find it hilarious that you feel free to criticize him for that. 2 years ago you would have been screaming about how Obama was trying to destroy the entire capitalist (giggle) system that makes America great.
Apparently $tinkle hasn't gotten his talking points from the GOP on this subject recently....

Rep Bachus said:
"In Washington, the view is that the banks are to be regulated, and my view is that Washington and the regulators are there to serve the banks"