[$tinkle]

This isn't about stopping every act of violence perpetrated, it's about making it more difficult for the average citizen to flip out and murder a high number of people because he has immediate free and easy access to handguns and ammunition. If such weapons are hard to get, then when such flip outs occur, the damage is greatly reduced.

this cat legally bought his 9mm a month ago. similar w/ his .22cal. if you want to make ammo as hard to get as a weapon, this would have had zero effect upon the outcome.

in this case, i bet if he didn't live in a coed dorm (2 rooms from the object of his affection), this would have been far less likely than any gun control laws you would have retro-enacted.

but what the hell do i know?

 

[ridetoofast]

dont you guys realize the futility of arguing with THE changleen...he is never wrong...

manimal raises a good point, as does those who said you don't shut down an entire city (which VT is comparatively speaking).

its always so easy to monday morning quarterback things.

thanks so much chang, for telling us to just shtcan part of the constitution, and thwart the rights of law abiding citizens who lawfully posses and use firearms because so f'ing nutcase doesn't.

you consider yourself a liberal, or at least your pontifications of the past bear that out. have you ever considered the founders of OUR country, which you do NOT live in, were firebrand liberals seeking to escape oppressive government. its interesting how quick you are to offer up governmental, regulatory solutions, for somewhere you don't even live...

edit
NY has some of THE most RESTRICTIVE gun laws in the country. obviously they have no problem with crime there...

 

[Changleen]

dont you guys realize the futility of arguing with THE changleen...he is never wrong...

It is hard being perfect.

thanks so much chang, for telling us to just shtcan part of the constitution, and thwart the rights of law abiding citizens who lawfully posses and use firearms because so f'ing nutcase doesn't.

You don't seem to mind when el prez does it though?

edit
NY has some of THE most RESTRICTIVE gun laws in the country. obviously they have no problem with crime there...

Is it not true that before zero tolerance NY was in a FAR worse way than it is now?

Oh and I used to live in the US BTW, that's why I'm on here.

 

[ridetoofast]

fyi...i did vote for bush but it wasnt really a vote for him, it was against kerry. i fell victim to the bean counter theory. i will never again vote for the beans but rather my conscious (read 3rd party).

and if you buy into, which you do, the gun control theory, this nut did exactly as the law requires, and made his purchase per the prescibed edict. so obviously gun control does work...

 

[Changleen]

and if you buy into, which you do, the gun control theory, this nut did exactly as the law requires, and made his purchase per the prescibed edict. so obviously gun control does work...

The 'theory' I am talking about is making handguns and ammunition for handguns completely illegal and unavailable to the normal citizenry. Seriously, what are handguns good for in an urban setting other than killing other people?

 

[syadasti]

edit
NY has some of THE most RESTRICTIVE gun laws in the country. obviously they have no problem with crime there...

Thanks for noticing. Its around the lowest its been in many decades. Whats that have to do with your point about gun control?

New York murder rate at record low

1:53:27 PM

The murder rate in once crime-ridden New York is set to drop to an historic low, according to figures out today.

Murder rates plunged by 8.4% across the entire state in the first six months of the year, according to FBI figures.

Meanwhile, police in New York City expect to record their lowest-ever murder rate this year.

It is a dramatic turnaround for a city which recorded a massive 2,245 murders in 1990, when some areas were virtual no-go areas.

According to FBI figures, revealed by New York governor George Pataki, the state’s overall crime rate dropped 2.8% this year, with violent crime down more than 50%.

The state-wide murder rate dropped 8.4% in the first six months of 2004, compared with the same period last year.

Violent crime is down by 3.6%, compared with a 2% decline nationally.

Mr Pataki put the success down to “common-sense reforms” which have “kept violent criminals behind bars, and provided strong support for our law professionals”.

But New York police have not had the same success in cutting the number of rapes.

Sex attacks are up 2.5% compared with a national increase of 1.4%.

Meanwhile, murders in New York City have dropped 3.6% from the same period in 2003, according to police.

Between January 1 and December 5, 528 people were murdered in the city.

Crime has been on the decrease in New York in recent years.

According to the FBI’s 2002 Crime in the United States report, crime across America rose by about 0.1% that year but it fell by 5% in New York.

Former city mayor Rudolph Giuliani was credited with bringing about a big reduction in crime with a “zero tolerance” policy.

The strategy targeted all crime, even petty offences.

At the time it was criticised in some quarters because more black youths were stopped and searched by police.

 

[Kihaji]

The 'theory' I am talking about is making handguns and ammunition for handguns completely illegal and unavailable to the normal citizenry. Seriously, what are handguns good for in an urban setting other than killing other people?

Perhaps one of the intents of the original founders, protection from tyranny by the government?

 

[syadasti]

Perhaps one of the intents of the original founders, protection from tyranny by the government?

That era is far in the past. Small arms are no longer relevant against a modern well equipped military commanded by a real tyrant. Our forefathers meant for our laws to changes with the times too, thats what amendments are for...

 

[Changleen]

Perhaps one of the intents of the original founders, protection from tyranny by the government?

...Killing other people, then...

 

[MMike]

Perhaps one of the intents of the original founders, protection from tyranny by the government?

AHAHAHAaaa... and how's that workin' out for ya?

 

[MMike]

manimal raises a good point, as does those who said you don't shut down an entire city (which VT is comparatively speaking).

...

Um...yeah you can. And it has been done. The cops shut down a huge chunk of montreal for the Dawson shooting. And this was a real city. traffic was stopped, public transit shut down.

It can be done if the will is there.

 

[$tinkle]

Seriously, what are handguns good for in an urban setting other than killing other people?

60+ people in blacksburg couldn't agree w/ you more.

and i bet they each could have justifiably used one at some point in what little remained in their normal lives.

 

[$tinkle]

Um...yeah you can. And it has been done. The cops shut down a huge chunk of montreal for the Dawson shooting. And this was a real city. traffic was stopped, public transit shut down.

not fair; you just drained your canals & all the canoeing stops.

 

[narlus]

Perhaps one of the intents of the original founders, protection from tyranny by the government?

there's a militia in idaho waiting to recruit yr sorry ass...

 

[N8 v2.0]

AHAHAHAaaa... and how's that workin' out for ya?

great actually...

no british monarchy here.

 

[narlus]

great actually...

no british monarchy here.

do you actually think the queen controls canada?

surely you can't be that dumb, though evidence has been mounting ever since you signed on to RM.

 

[N8 v2.0]

Thanks for noticing. Its around the lowest its been in many decades. Whats that have to do with your point about gun control?

and NYC laws are nothing compaired to Washington DC's....

and we all know how safe the 'hood is there.

 

[Changleen]

and NYC laws are nothing compaired to Washington DC's....

and we all know how safe the 'hood is there.

This is such a sh1te argument. We all know one can simply drive the short distance out of DC and freely obtain a gun. NY being a larger state is a better example where geographical distance is a slightly greater obstacle to the casual criminal / gun psycho and gun control there appears to be working.

 

[$tinkle]

This is such a sh1te argument. We all know one can simply drive the short distance out of DC and freely obtain a gun. NY being a larger state is a better example where geographical distance is a slightly greater obstacle to the casual criminal / gun psycho and gun control there appears to be working.

you don't have to leave d.c.

if i could buy love boat in anacostia from a guy off the street only a few years after brady was turned to vegemite, why can't i buy a gun?

furthermore: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appalachian_School_of_Law_shooting

how soon we forget handguns minimized that carnage. oh wait, that's anecdotal, so we can't use it.

but we can bring up columbine, amish shootings, concordia (but barely)

 

[cheeselad]

I thought I'd toss Changleen a bone...

from this article: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18149774/?GT1=9246


"Gun crime is extremely rare in Britain, and handguns are completely illegal. The ban is so strictly enforced that Britain’s Olympic pistol shooting team is barred from practicing in its own country.

Britain’s 46 homicides involving firearms was the lowest total since the late 1980s. New York City, with 8 million people compared to 53 million in England and Wales, recorded at least 579 homicides last year."


Not that the Associated Press is a reliable source of information and statistics are generally as meaningless as foreign opinions in this country.

I don't know how much a ban would have helped in this case. If we go with supply and demand, an illegal gun would have probably cost a bit more for the lack of supply. Possibly making it more difficult for a college kid to attain. Not that money will prevent any psycho lunatic from accomplishing what he has in mind.

One interesting thing I've noticed about the news coverage here is how news reporters are walking around asking Koreans if they are ashamed about the shooting. I'm not 100 percent sure but I don't remember news reporters asking white people if they were ashamed of Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris. Just a random thought.

 

[sanjuro]

I don't know how much a ban would have helped in this case. If we go with supply and demand, an illegal gun would have probably cost a bit more for the lack of supply. Possibly making it more difficult for a college kid to attain. Not that money will prevent any psycho lunatic from accomplishing what he has in mind.

One interesting thing I've noticed about the news coverage here is how news reporters are walking around asking Koreans if they are ashamed about the shooting. I'm not 100 percent sure but I don't remember news reporters asking white people if they were ashamed of Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris. Just a random thought.

The problem with gun control in America is that it is too little too late. You going to ban all handguns in America? That will never happen.

Handguns are virtually banned in NYC, and while I think it miminizes the violence, there are still plenty of murders.

I want to see the culture of violence curtailled in NYC. Can you change a generation? Yes.

On a different note, I am starting to apologize to white people on the behalf of all asians.

 

[MikeD]

On a different note, I am starting to apologize to white people on the behalf of all asians.

The real shame is that it took an incident of this magnitude for you to start.

 

[syadasti]

On a different note, I am starting to apologize to white people on the behalf of all asians.

You mean your aren't still mad about the Ping Yang School Bombings:biggrin:

 

[N8 v2.0]

The real shame is that it took an incident of this magnitude for you to start.

no kidding.... how soon we forget the japaneese horrors of WWII...


i am guessing the chi-coms havent tho..

 

[$tinkle]

On a different note, I am starting to apologize to white people on the behalf of all asians.

i think south korea owes us an apology. those guys rule at WoW, & even have guys on the gov't payroll.

clearly, this guy was an operative.

 

[MMike]

no kidding.... how soon we forget the japaneese horrors of WWII...


i am guessing the chi-coms havent tho..

......says the guy who owns 2 toyotas.....

 

[N8 v2.0]

......says the guy who owns 2 toyotas.....

as usual, you are...



WRONG!






it's 3

 

[Westy]

I hate to bring statistics into the picture but it seems a State like NY where handgun ownership requires individual gun registration and licensing has a per capita gun death rate almost half that of the national average. A state like Virginia which requires a permit to conceal is a little higher than national average. The wild west of Az with some of the most lax gun laws has twice the national average. At least as far as 1998 values go.

 

[Pegboy]

I don't think any type of gun control would have prevented this occurance. They found bomb threat notes in his belongings, just imagine how many more lives may have been lost due to a strategically placed bomb.

I think people are missing the real issue, the common link between the most recent mass murders...

The issue is not gun control, it is immigration control.

 

[SK6]

 

[SK6]

There ya go. Gun control, yeah, always worked in the past.....so innocent people will loose all means of self protection because the criminals can get guns. Oh, law enforcement will save the day?, According to some posts, the implication is that they can't.

Again, we are faced with far TOO many half cocked ideas and theories....all which contradict each other...


Now, where the hell is my H&K?!?

 

[syadasti]

Again, we are faced with far TOO many half cocked ideas and theories....all which contradict each other...

Westy's US stats back up his position. Let see some stats that show civilized countries with similar socioeconomic status and strict gun control laws have higher crime and/or murder rates than the US? Go on, rattle off the numbers and countries for us, show us you have any idea what you are talking about.

And the fool that blames mental illness on immigration, brilliant. Only a fool like Oreilly would agree like the recent incident where he blames immigration for drunk driving

 

[$tinkle]

I think people are missing the real issue, the common link between the most recent mass murders...

The issue is not gun control, it is immigration control.

i like the way he lay in wait for 14 years. that was pure evil genius.

 

[$tinkle]

And the fool that blames mental illness on immigration, brilliant. Only a fool like Oreilly would agree like the recent incident where he blames immigration for drunk driving

back off, buddy: i've got 6 o'reilly books on my shelf.

my favorites are the ones on pthreads & awk.

 

[Westy]

There ya go. Gun control, yeah, always worked in the past.....so innocent people will loose all means of self protection because the criminals can get guns. Oh, law enforcement will save the day?, According to some posts, the implication is that they can't.

Again, we are faced with far TOO many half cocked ideas and theories....all which contradict each other...


Now, where the hell is my H&K?!?

So how often do you carry a weapon to protect yourself?

Gun control doesn't mean banning them outright. You can make it harder for criminals to get them while the innocent still can.

 

[$tinkle]

Gun control doesn't mean banning them outright. You can make it harder for criminals to get them while the innocent still can.

just a nit, but cho wasn't a criminal when he got his guns & ammo. seldom are.

 

[Pegboy]

The point is that arguing gun control would have prevented a twisted mind from creating mass distruction is no more valid than saying preventing immigration would have prevented cases like this and 911.

 

[MMike]

You guys are ignoring the title of my thread. SHMUN CONTROL!!

 

[Westy]

just a nit, but cho wasn't a criminal when he got his guns & ammo. seldom are.

But if it required a license, that needed approval from the Sherrifs office (as some states do) they could have been all like "no way that dude is messed in the head".

My opinion is that guns should not be banned, people have the right to own and use them. Most gun crimes are perpetrated by hand guns. Hand guns are far from the best choice for hunting or protecting your home, a nice shotgun is. Require permits to own handguns, require that person have a reason to need a handgun to protect themselves. If Cho could only get his hands on some kind of long gun there is a much better chance he would have been seen and reported before the second round started.

Verily I Say Unto Thee: Pack Thou Heat.

 

[narlus]

i like the way he lay in wait for 14 years. that was pure evil genius.

the $tinkle has been en fuego in the POTN forum over the last 1-2 months.