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Kevin

Turbo Monkey
Ill just leave this here... You know, since people are always blaming health care over the actual problem.

https://www.utmb.edu/newsroom/article11989.aspx

Mental illness not to blame for gun violence study finds
February 6, 2019

GALVESTON, Texas – Counter to a lot of public opinion, having a mental illness does not necessarily make a person more likely to commit gun violence. According to a new study, a better indicator of gun violence was access to firearms.

A study by researchers at The University of Texas Medical Branch at Galveston looked into the association between gun violence and mental health in a group of 663 young adults in Texas. Their results were published in the journal Preventive Medicine.

“Counter to public beliefs, the majority of mental health symptoms examined were not related to gun violence,” said Dr. Yu Lu, a postdoctoral research fellow at UTMB and the lead author of the study.

What researchers found instead was that individuals who had gun access were approximately 18 times more likely to have threatened someone with a gun. Individuals with high hostility were about 3.5 times more likely to threaten someone.

“These findings have important implications for gun control policy efforts,” Lu said.

Each year, an estimated 75,000 to 100,000 Americans are injured by firearms and 30,000 to 40,000 die from firearms, according to the Centers for Disease Control.

“Much of the limited research on gun violence and mental illness has focused on violence among individuals with severe mental illnesses or rates of mental illness among individuals arrested for violent crimes,” Lu said. “What we found is that the link between mental illness and gun violence is not there.”

Lu and Dr. Jeff Temple, another author of the study and a professor at UTMB, surveyed participants in a long-term study about their firearm possession and use as well as about anxiety, depression, stress, posttraumatic stress disorder, hostility, impulsivity, borderline personality disorder, mental health treatment and other demographic details.

The researchers found that individuals who had access to guns, compared to those with no such access, were over 18 times more likely to have threatened someone with a gun, even after controlling for a number of demographic and mental health variables. Meanwhile, most mental health symptoms were unrelated to gun violence.

“Taking all this information together, limiting access to guns, regardless of any other mental health status, demographics or prior mental health treatments, is the key to reducing gun violence,” Temple said.

This research was supported by awards from the Eunice Kennedy Shriver National Institute of Child Health and Human Development and from the National Institute of Justice. The content is solely the responsibility of the authors and does not necessarily represent the official views of NICHD or NIJ.
 
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AngryMetalsmith

Business is good, thanks for asking
Jun 4, 2006
14,394
2,185
I have no idea where I am
Ill just leave this here... You know, since people are always blaming health care over the actual problem.

https://www.utmb.edu/newsroom/article11989.aspx

Mental illness not to blame for gun violence study finds
February 6, 2019

GALVESTON, Texas – Counter to a lot of public opinion, having a mental illness does not necessarily make a person more likely to commit gun violence. According to a new study, a better indicator of gun violence was access to firearms.

A study by researchers at The University of Texas Medical Branch at Galveston looked into the association between gun violence and mental health in a group of 663 young adults in Texas. Their results were published in the journal Preventive Medicine.

“Counter to public beliefs, the majority of mental health symptoms examined were not related to gun violence,” said Dr. Yu Lu, a postdoctoral research fellow at UTMB and the lead author of the study.

What researchers found instead was that individuals who had gun access were approximately 18 times more likely to have threatened someone with a gun. Individuals with high hostility were about 3.5 times more likely to threaten someone.

“These findings have important implications for gun control policy efforts,” Lu said.

Each year, an estimated 75,000 to 100,000 Americans are injured by firearms and 30,000 to 40,000 die from firearms, according to the Centers for Disease Control.

“Much of the limited research on gun violence and mental illness has focused on violence among individuals with severe mental illnesses or rates of mental illness among individuals arrested for violent crimes,” Lu said. “What we found is that the link between mental illness and gun violence is not there.”

Lu and Dr. Jeff Temple, another author of the study and a professor at UTMB, surveyed participants in a long-term study about their firearm possession and use as well as about anxiety, depression, stress, posttraumatic stress disorder, hostility, impulsivity, borderline personality disorder, mental health treatment and other demographic details.

The researchers found that individuals who had access to guns, compared to those with no such access, were over 18 times more likely to have threatened someone with a gun, even after controlling for a number of demographic and mental health variables. Meanwhile, most mental health symptoms were unrelated to gun violence.

“Taking all this information together, limiting access to guns, regardless of any other mental health status, demographics or prior mental health treatments, is the key to reducing gun violence,” Temple said.

This research was supported by awards from the Eunice Kennedy Shriver National Institute of Child Health and Human Development and from the National Institute of Justice. The content is solely the responsibility of the authors and does not necessarily represent the official views of NICHD or NIJ.
I'm beginning to think you don't like our Freedom™.

As far as I know it is impossible to commit an act of gun violence if one does not have access to firearms. But this wizard level of logic proves a bit too challenging for some.
 

rockofullr

confused
Jun 11, 2009
7,359
907
East Bay, Cali
Just from a common sense stand point.... I'd have to guess that crazy people are more likely to shoot up the place than normal folks.

But if the article says so then I must be wrong.
 

dan-o

Turbo Monkey
Jun 30, 2004
5,082
1,123
Any action being taken to address the other main contributor to the high body count?


B900FE58-8455-4287-B6F5-663FCA3397C3.jpeg


D0808BF5-FA88-429A-85E2-9348D8CE591C.jpeg
 

rockofullr

confused
Jun 11, 2009
7,359
907
East Bay, Cali


in your swift eagerness to deflect blame, did you consider the fact that the shooting occurred in two separate locations, not just one?
I'm sure his point is that if there had been just one good guy with a gun it could have been stopped much faster...

Or that he needs to be armed to protect himself cause the cops aren't going to make it there in time

Common pro gun arguing points.
 

Nick

My name is Nick
Sep 21, 2001
14,565
3,039
behind you, don't wait up.
I'm sure his point is that if there had been just one good guy with a gun it could have been stopped much faster...

Or that he needs to be armed to protect himself cause the cops aren't going to make it there in time

Common pro gun arguing points.
And blanket dismissal like you're doing is a common anti-gun point.
 

rockofullr

confused
Jun 11, 2009
7,359
907
East Bay, Cali
And blanket dismissal like you're doing is a common anti-gun point.
Not blanket dismissal. Both points are valid. The second more than the first in this case. It would have been unlikely for any of the people in the mosques to have taken this guy out. They had very little reaction time and were facing a heavily armed opponent. In general I wouldn't want to be in a fire fight with a hand gun against a dude with an AR and a shotgun.

On the second point. I own guns and if you come to my house and try to fuck with me or my people I will shoot you before the police show up.
 

jonKranked

Press Button, Receive Stupid
Nov 10, 2005
55,234
4,419
media blackout
Rather misleading article you have there.
It was 36 mins from the first call to the police to the suspect being in custody.
Given the gunman was on the move, heavily armed and taken alive that's pretty quick frankly.
out of curiosity i googled the two locations, approximately 12 minutes apart.
 

dan-o

Turbo Monkey
Jun 30, 2004
5,082
1,123
Rather misleading article you have there.
It was 36 mins from the first call to the police to the suspect being in custody.
Given the gunman was on the move, heavily armed and taken alive that's pretty quick frankly.
Using JK's math, and allowing a few minutes before he was chased off by an unarmed worshiper at 2nd location, he had roughly 15 uncontested minutes at the first mosque.
In an urban center. That's atrocious.

Reluctance to engage directly resulted in higher casualties in Parkland, Vegas and Orlando and is well documented as doing so.
 

DaveW

Space Monkey
Jul 2, 2001
8,616
547
Karori, Poneke Te Ika-a-Maui
Hmm lets see;
Parkland 1.5 hours
Orlando 3 hours
Las Vagas 1hour 20
And your having a whine about 15mins in NZ where the threat environment is generally a faction of yours?
Also can you point out exactly where the "reluctance to engage" was?
 

rockofullr

confused
Jun 11, 2009
7,359
907
East Bay, Cali
I want one, just ONE, gun "rights" group to come out and advocate for arming Muslims and/or Imams.
There are no religious or ethnic restrictions in the second amendment or in any gun laws in the US. Despite their personal views, anyone advocating for gun rights is advocating for gun right for Muslims.
 

rockofullr

confused
Jun 11, 2009
7,359
907
East Bay, Cali

Pesqueeb

bicycle in airplane hangar
Feb 2, 2007
27,137
3,554
Riding the baggage carousel.
I can history. I am well aware of the relationship between white racial fear and gun control.

The NRA essentially started as a marksmanship club. In 1934 the NRA backed the first gun control law in the US. It wasn't until the 70s and 80s that the NRA morphed into the quasi political right wing mess that it is today.
And surely, any minute now, someone with that organization will suggest arming Imams in the same manner that they suggest arming teachers and preachers after every school or protestant church shooting?
 

dan-o

Turbo Monkey
Jun 30, 2004
5,082
1,123
The myth that pro-gun people are just pro-white male Christians is stale. Our club and local 2a legal organizations are huge proponents of strength through diversity.

In addition to youth programs we support the Pink Pistols (LBGTQXYZ), Black Guns Matter (look up Maj Toure) and women’s groups.

Religion wise Jews tend to be the most rabid 2a defenders, understandably. Can’t say I’ve come across a Muslim looking to shoot (recreationally, lol) but I’ll take anyone to the range with me and invite anti’s every occasion I get. Conversion rate 100%.
 

dan-o

Turbo Monkey
Jun 30, 2004
5,082
1,123
Hmm lets see;
Parkland 1.5 hours
Orlando 3 hours
Las Vagas 1hour 20
And your having a whine about 15mins in NZ where the threat environment is generally a faction of yours?
Also can you point out exactly where the "reluctance to engage" was?
Reluctance to engage was referencing US events. In the events I listed cops were on scene almost immediately yet waited to engage.

Regarding NZ, I believe officers have ARs (bushmasters iirc) and handguns in vehicles. They weren’t outgunned at any time, especially if not solo.

You’re always one of the first to pile on the US when there’s a shooting. You know where a mosque hasn’t been shot up (yet)? The US, so enjoy that footnote in NZ history.

The fact that the shooter made it to another location, let alone planned on three, is kind of telling regarding the response he expected don’t you think?
 

Pesqueeb

bicycle in airplane hangar
Feb 2, 2007
27,137
3,554
Riding the baggage carousel.
The myth that pro-gun people are just pro-white male Christians is stale. Our club and local 2a legal organizations are huge proponents of strength through diversity.
How inclusive! Then you should definitely suggest to your club that they reach out to the local Muslim community. Advertise it in the newspaper, maybe. Post that shit on FB, yo!

Conversion rate 100%.
Praise Allah. Will I be stoned to death for my gun destroying apostasy?

You’re always one of the first to pile on the US when there’s a shooting. You know where a mosque hasn’t been shot up (yet)? The US, so enjoy that footnote in NZ history.
Yeah. We only shoot up synagogues. and Churches. And schools. And Night Clubs. And Cafeterias. And Colleges. And Naval Shipyards. And Planned Parenthood (COS represent!). And Movie theaters. And Army Bases. And Malls. And freeways. USA #1!

The fact that the shooter made it to another location, let alone planned on three, is kind of telling regarding the response he expected don’t you think?
The clear planning of a rational actor!
 
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DaveW

Space Monkey
Jul 2, 2001
8,616
547
Karori, Poneke Te Ika-a-Maui
Reluctance to engage was referencing US events. In the events I listed cops were on scene almost immediately yet waited to engage.
Ooooh on the scene immediately!
Well that would require officers to be in the immediate vicinity.... In the case of Vagas, large concert beside a casino.... both of those locations would have had a police or armed security (in the casinos case) presence on hand within a few hundred meters.
Parkland you had armed officers on site.... Transit time 0 mins
Oakland ok on this one no idea, but I'm guessing officers within a 1km radius.

In the case of Linwood a quiet leafy suburb that would normally have little to no police presence, that means shifting units in... again 15 min's isn't that unexpected.
NZ has a pretty responsive to complaint police force & a public that is well trained to expect the police to do as asked (very much the opposite to yours), if this was thought to be a shit response Kiwi's would have been all over it by now.
While we are generally quiet and undemanding people, when it comes to public service we tend to get shitty fast if the public service is seen to be poor.

The fact that the shooter made it to another location, let alone planned on three, is kind of telling regarding the response he expected don’t you think?
Yes very telling of the expected response.
Planned on 3, which means that he knew staying in the one location was game over very quickly.....or shoot & scoot to use a different name for that tactic.
 

DaveW

Space Monkey
Jul 2, 2001
8,616
547
Karori, Poneke Te Ika-a-Maui
I recon the Black panthers should resurrect that black people with guns and double down with a push to get black people joining the police force.
Just picture the freakout at the thought of a black dominated police and blacks wandering around with guns.
 

stevew

unique white person
Sep 21, 2001
31,492
2,473
DaveW....is not the process for owning a gun in NZ pretty much close to having a periscope up your ass?

just.....