Quantcast

Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
38,966
5,657
Sleazattle
Do you feel the problems outlined above were caused by the police or that the police issues were caused by trying to control problems seemingly endorsed by politicians and the citizens that elected them?






There has been a bit of a perfect storm is Seattle regarding homelessness. Cost of housing in the 20-teens went up across the country but here it was really bad with the introduction of Amazon and other tech companies. 50,000+ tech workers making vast salaries quickly rolled into town driving housing costs through the roof. This literally pushed people living on the margins into the streets. Throw in an opioid epidemic at the same time and shit gets ugly fast and as one of the article stated the root of the problem isn’t cost of living, but it made it worse. From the law and order perspective people here are pretty tolerant, much more than I am. The public consensus is throwing people into jail because they are poor costs a lot of taxpayer money and actually makes the problem worse, I can’t say I disagree with that but little else has been done to fix the problem. When you get large groups of people living outside of society lawlessness ensues. Lack of police enforcement definitely makes that worse and it is frustrating as hell. And that lack of enforcement is driven a lot by rules handed down by the government. But the reason why those rules were made is because without them the police were not effectively doing their jobs and abusing their power. Let’s ignore the humanitarian aspect of it, you cannot actively run government when you get bankrupted by lawsuits over excessive police force. All that went down prior to when I moved here, perhaps all those rules and oversight made a better police force. The reaction of the police to the recent demonstrations showed that they haven’t exactly perfected accountability and de-escalation. What could have been a display of responsibility turned into a show of force, which included ignoring orders from both the mayor and the police chief. A direct result of that was the application to remove federal oversight was withdrawn.


The police here have proven to be unable to properly handle problems where social issues and crime are one in the same, and we should be asking if that should really be their jobs. A guy with a gun and pepper spray isn’t really equipped to deal with drug addiction and mental health problems. And that is the whole point to reasonable ideas of defunding the police. Remove that from their list of responsibilities and provide that funding to people who are equipped to solve that problem.

As an interesting note, I think crime around here has certainly increased in certain areas like downtown but overall rates have actually decreased. Another interesting point is that despite having high property crime rates, Seattle has relatively low violent crime rates, similar to Denver and Boston.
 

Nick

My name is Nick
Sep 21, 2001
17,028
4,962
behind you, don't wait up.
I actually watched a good bit of the hearing in ATL yesterday. Their case is going to be stronger than you think. Hard to say the cop felt threatened when he's literally just sitting there kicking a dead guy.
Here is why I think that. The deceased fired the taser at the cop. I think that will be the off.
If I give you a pistol, then I shoot you with a taser. Do you think you could prevent me from taking that pistol away from you? I'd bet you could not. I think there will be a reasonable argument that the officer knew that too. I can see the cop being guilty of manslaughter.
 

Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
38,966
5,657
Sleazattle
Right, except that is literally the 1st demand of the Seattle CHAZ group.

Just saying.

Are you familiar with negotiation? I wouldn't put it past a lot of people to actually want complete disbanding, but you always low-ball at first.
 

Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
38,966
5,657
Sleazattle
You mean like boeing?

Washington has a serious problem with it's tax code. Against the constitution to have any income tax, especially not a graduated income tax. Great place for the worlds wealthiest people to make money and use that money to make money. Not so much when every cent you make goes into buying essentials and the resulting hefty sales tax.
 

jonKranked

Press Button, Receive Stupid
Nov 10, 2005
61,730
8,279
media blackout
There has been a bit of a perfect storm is Seattle regarding homelessness. Cost of housing in the 20-teens went up across the country but here it was really bad with the introduction of Amazon and other tech companies. 50,000+ tech workers making vast salaries quickly rolled into town driving housing costs through the roof. This literally pushed people living on the margins into the streets. Throw in an opioid epidemic at the same time and shit gets ugly fast and as one of the article stated the root of the problem isn’t cost of living, but it made it worse. From the law and order perspective people here are pretty tolerant, much more than I am. The public consensus is throwing people into jail because they are poor costs a lot of taxpayer money and actually makes the problem worse, I can’t say I disagree with that but little else has been done to fix the problem. When you get large groups of people living outside of society lawlessness ensues. Lack of police enforcement definitely makes that worse and it is frustrating as hell. And that lack of enforcement is driven a lot by rules handed down by the government. But the reason why those rules were made is because without them the police were not effectively doing their jobs and abusing their power. Let’s ignore the humanitarian aspect of it, you cannot actively run government when you get bankrupted by lawsuits over excessive police force. All that went down prior to when I moved here, perhaps all those rules and oversight made a better police force. The reaction of the police to the recent demonstrations showed that they haven’t exactly perfected accountability and de-escalation. What could have been a display of responsibility turned into a show of force, which included ignoring orders from both the mayor and the police chief. A direct result of that was the application to remove federal oversight was withdrawn.


The police here have proven to be unable to properly handle problems where social issues and crime are one in the same, and we should be asking if that should really be their jobs. A guy with a gun and pepper spray isn’t really equipped to deal with drug addiction and mental health problems. And that is the whole point to reasonable ideas of defunding the police. Remove that from their list of responsibilities and provide that funding to people who are equipped to solve that problem.

As an interesting note, I think crime around here has certainly increased in certain areas like downtown but overall rates have actually decreased. Another interesting point is that despite having high property crime rates, Seattle has relatively low violent crime rates, similar to Denver and Boston.
one thing touched on here that i think there'd be more widespread support for than we think is decriminalizing drugs, controlling them, taxing them, and treating addition (rightfully) as a medical issue.
 

kidwoo

Celebrating No-Pants Day
Aug 25, 2003
24,358
3,383
In my pants
The deceased fired the taser at the cop.
1) Sort of, depends on definition of 'at.' You can't be simultaneously 'drunk enough to be a threat in a car' and expert marksman with a tool you've likely never used. I'll give you in general direction.
2) cop who shot him also had taser, put it away and grabbed gun
3) Shot him in the back, taser fired by Rayshard had already been rendered useless, threat was over
4) Who cares. Do I get to shoot a cop next time one uses a taser on me? The double standard is the problem. People accept escalation from cops as procedure
5) Cops escalated the situation, not the victim

Cops are not untouchable gods who can't be challenged. That's the problem we face. Too many people have gotten used to thinking that they are. Because as upstanding pale skinned citizens we haven't been at the blunt end of the result of this as much so we haven't had our lives destroyed or taken to the same degree. But it also doesn't mean we shouldn't listen to the people who have.

My personal feelings still fall within the 'just don't shoot black people if you don't have to right now.' Above everything else, it once again shows that the cop sucks at judgement. Plus kicking a dead guy you didn't need to shoot just kind of proves he's an asshole.
 
Last edited:

dan-o

Turbo Monkey
Jun 30, 2004
6,460
2,767
Rich coming from a person who seems incapable of hearing any opinion other than your own.
That's probably why you're the expert on just about everything.

I post random things relevant to the general discussion, sorry to interrupt the circle jerk but the 'atta boy' parroting gets old.
Reading PAWN political posts, one would think the progressive Revolution would've swept the nation in 2020, yet noise doesn't equal support as their results show.

Posts regarding younger blacks not falling in line with historical pro-Dem voting gets responses from you about 'paid to support the white man'. No matter that one's a liberal BLM activist ('stupid') and another runs a wildly popular, decidedly not conservative radio show.
Nope the one conservative quoted is all you focus on, even though he says much the same thing.
You should probably tell them how blacks are supposed to think, they clearly need your whitesplaination.

Oh look, here's another example of them pushing the cracker agenda.

I give zero fucks about chaz or seattle for that matter.
The media (the good ones, hard hitting outlets like Salon and WaPo) won't shut up about it.
They're the one putting it on a pedestal as some manifestation of the movement.
 

dan-o

Turbo Monkey
Jun 30, 2004
6,460
2,767
Here is why I think that. The deceased fired the taser at the cop. I think that will be the off.
If I give you a pistol, then I shoot you with a taser. Do you think you could prevent me from taking that pistol away from you? I'd bet you could not. I think there will be a reasonable argument that the officer knew that too. I can see the cop being guilty of manslaughter.
Losing control of the gun is their biggest fear.

In before the 'they don't need gunz :panic: '
 

Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
38,966
5,657
Sleazattle
Losing control of the gun is their biggest fear.

In before the 'they don't need gunz :panic: '

Which is why I am baffled why their hasn't been adoption of RFID smart guns.

The NRA resist commercialization of the technology fearing it could become mandatory but it makes a lot of fucking sense for law enforcement.
 

kidwoo

Celebrating No-Pants Day
Aug 25, 2003
24,358
3,383
In my pants
I post random things relevant to the general discussion, sorry to interrupt the circle jerk but the 'atta boy' parroting gets old.

Which many times equates to some really dumb shit :rofl:



Now let's rally together and support our man!

:rofl:


Quit getting so offended. If I didn't want to discuss things I wouldn't post those word walls. You post them for discussion right?
 
Last edited:

Adventurous

Starshine Bro
Mar 19, 2014
5,098
2,588
Crawlorado
4) Who cares. Do I get to shoot a cop next time one uses a taser on me? The double standard is the problem. People accept escalation from cops as procedure
I was pondering something similar recently.

Let's say the cops enter your premises at night, with a no-knock warrant, while you are sleeping, ala Breona Taylor. You, as a law abiding, gun-owning citizen, pull your weapon to defend the household from these unidentified intruders.

Obviously when the police see you holding a firearm, they are going to shoot to kill. But do you, as the homeowner have the same rights? After all, you don't know who is in the house, and the Castle Doctrine and Stand Your Ground laws provide legal cover to defend yourself with deadly force.

Now, my bet is you'd be charged with murder. As if some form of omnipotence should inform your decision making. And as evidenced by Taylor's case, the opposite is not true.
 

Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
38,966
5,657
Sleazattle
I was pondering something similar recently.

Let's say the cops enter your premises at night, with a no-knock warrant, while you are sleeping, ala Breona Taylor. You, as a law abiding, gun-owning citizen, pull your weapon to defend the household from these unidentified intruders.

Obviously when the police see you holding a firearm, they are going to shoot to kill. But do you, as the homeowner have the same rights? After all, you don't know who is in the house, and the Castle Doctrine and Stand Your Ground laws provide legal cover to defend yourself with deadly force.

Now, my bet is you'd be charged with murder. As if some form of omnipotence should inform your decision making. And as evidenced by Taylor's case, the opposite is not true.

 

Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
38,966
5,657
Sleazattle
The conclusion in the last 3 paragraphs is particularly disturbing to me. Y'all maintain legal counsel as a a regular part of life, along with the daycare and grocery bills? I sure as hell don't. And that's also assuming you even live long enough to get to a phone.
In summary, you fucked.
 

kidwoo

Celebrating No-Pants Day
Aug 25, 2003
24,358
3,383
In my pants
Here is why I think that. The deceased fired the taser at the cop.
Not that it changes intent, but it turns out that taser he grabbed was useless because it had been used....which the cop would have known. So he may have tried but he didn't fire a taser at the cop because it couldn't be fired.

Also, back to that accountability (and lying on police reports) bit.

 

Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
38,966
5,657
Sleazattle
Here is why I think that. The deceased fired the taser at the cop. I think that will be the off.
If I give you a pistol, then I shoot you with a taser. Do you think you could prevent me from taking that pistol away from you? I'd bet you could not. I think there will be a reasonable argument that the officer knew that too. I can see the cop being guilty of manslaughter.
The cop shot the tazer twice, but feared for his life when it was pointed at him. Doesn't that mean he attempted murder twice?
 

kidwoo

Celebrating No-Pants Day
Aug 25, 2003
24,358
3,383
In my pants
Washington has a serious problem with it's tax code. Against the constitution to have any income tax, especially not a graduated income tax. Great place for the worlds wealthiest people to make money and use that money to make money. Not so much when every cent you make goes into buying essentials and the resulting hefty sales tax.
You weren't foolin.


Am I reading that correctly, property tax would have to be a flat tax? I know the system around portland is to own a house in camas/vancouver area for zero property tax and then work in portland for no income or sales tax.....

Warshington is weird. There's a mini silicon valley in bellevue and you can't tax that mess?
 

kidwoo

Celebrating No-Pants Day
Aug 25, 2003
24,358
3,383
In my pants
That's what I, and almost every person I worked with at PDX did. Though we went further north to Battle Ground.

I miss that house.
I despise portland (or any big city for that matter), but that area from the airport->northeast is really nice.
 

Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
38,966
5,657
Sleazattle
You weren't foolin.


Am I reading that correctly, property tax would have to be a flat tax? I know the system around portland is to own a house in camas/vancouver area for zero property tax and then work in portland for no income or sales tax.....

Warshington is weird. There's a mini silicon valley in bellevue and you can't tax that mess?

Every alternative tax plan gets fought in court via ballot repeal measure, usually from outside the areas that are trying to implement it. A local car registration tax for public transportation recently got voted down by a state ban on such things. It passed with flying colors in the counties that was actually using it and shot down by the rest of the state where it was not in effect. Them folks in Yakima didn't want their freedumbs impinged by people two hours away trying to pay for their own infrastructure.
 

Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
38,966
5,657
Sleazattle
Actually looking at their contract, those fuckers make really good money. On par with an engineer, the kind of people who have to have IQs higher than 122 and have to spend $100K+ for their own educations. As an engineer I have to spend a decent amount of my time performing work that is statistically more dangerous than police work. And I don't get to shoot the fucking crane operators and other idiots who put my life in danger.
 

Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
38,966
5,657
Sleazattle
120k STARTING salary here.
plus 1.5X OT I would assume.

At that level of pay any subpar performer should be easily shit-canned. I work under a professional engineering union. You can get away with not being good or not trying that hard, but any rules or ethics transgressions are grounds for termination and the union will typically not fight that.
 

Toshi

Harbinger of Doom
Oct 23, 2001
29,216
2,897
Whereas that seems to be the sole role for police unions. The one and only union that the right seems to support.

Coincidence, I'm sure.
They supported them back when great-great-great-great-grandpappy was an overseer, and they support them to this day.
 

Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
38,966
5,657
Sleazattle
Whereas that seems to be the sole role for police unions. The one and only union that the right seems to support.

Coincidence, I'm sure.
This is a pretty strong union town and political endorsements mean shit. Imma gonna guess this is going to create a split in who the police union supports and all the rest.
 

kidwoo

Celebrating No-Pants Day
Aug 25, 2003
24,358
3,383
In my pants
Uh oh.

Here comes meaningful gun law reform :rofl: