Used Gun Insanity?
Gun owners - Your experience with Glock and Springfield
- Thread starter Arkayne
- Start date
try that during times of crisis and disasters. I thought NYC people would know better than to count on the cops being there at all times. Heck my Dad still remembers seeing NYPD cops ripping tourists off back when he was there.
Anyhow around here the average response times for cops, if you get connected right the way, is around 5 minutes at the earliest. If anything else is going on then good luck to you.
lthumbsdown:
How 'bout an alarm on your home?
in the five minutes(or however long it takes the police) between the alarm going off and they arrive, a lot can happen.
if you are willing to bet your family's life on that period of time and have faith that everything will be okay, go ahead. My wife is more important than feel-good sociological arguments. We have safes for our equipment and are responsible about it.
seriously, that way I figure it, if you don't want a gun in your house, it's your decision. Just please don't try to decide for my family. we all took courses and are capable of handling them, even my wife, who is the sweetest person you will ever meet.
oh yeah, in case anyone were picturing me and my wife as gun-toting trailer trash, we both graduated from UCB, and I'm going to do my masters or PHD in the fall, and she works in one of the most prestigious libraries in the world.
on topic, also keep in mind that the equipment you use to defend your family should be something that you are willing to lose. In most states, even those with Castle doctrine, your pistol, when it is used, even if it were in a justifiable fashion, would still be taken in as evidence and potentially take years before you can get it back. So a reliable but not too flashy model should be considered, otherwise the prosecutor and perp's family can come after you by focusing how "trick" of a gun you used and distort your image.
if you are willing to bet your family's life on that period of time and have faith that everything will be okay, go ahead. My wife is more important than feel-good sociological arguments. We have safes for our equipment and are responsible about it.
seriously, that way I figure it, if you don't want a gun in your house, it's your decision. Just please don't try to decide for my family. we all took courses and are capable of handling them, even my wife, who is the sweetest person you will ever meet.
oh yeah, in case anyone were picturing me and my wife as gun-toting trailer trash, we both graduated from UCB, and I'm going to do my masters or PHD in the fall, and she works in one of the most prestigious libraries in the world.
on topic, also keep in mind that the equipment you use to defend your family should be something that you are willing to lose. In most states, even those with Castle doctrine, your pistol, when it is used, even if it were in a justifiable fashion, would still be taken in as evidence and potentially take years before you can get it back. So a reliable but not too flashy model should be considered, otherwise the prosecutor and perp's family can come after you by focusing how "trick" of a gun you used and distort your image.
I carry a Glock 19 in a com-tac infidel holster, but for bumps in the night, I prefer my sig 226 in .40. I feel more comfortable with the double/single action of the Sig's trigger when the gun is loaded and just "laying about" than I am with the glock. My loaded chambered glock stays in the holster.
Whatever you choose, don't forget a good flashlight. I prefer a hand held as opposed to a weapon mounted one.
Whatever you choose, don't forget a good flashlight. I prefer a hand held as opposed to a weapon mounted one.
soundin sketch there buddy
Why?
I live alone, and see no problem leaving a loaded firearm readily accessible. I don't have a nightstand, so the Sig stays on the floor under the bed. If there were children about, it would secured differently.
Thanks for clearing that up. What happens if someone breaks in while you're not home? Under the bed is the first place I'd look for a gun.
Canine deterrent, and all guns and valuables are in a gunsafe bolted to a concrete slab. It's all I really can do.
That's the answer I was hoping for!
drop them off at the pool.
Seriously though. Keep them outta reach, unloaded, and locked up. Educate your kids about safe firearm handling as soon as they're in first grade and take them shooting often so the "gun" isn't some juicy mystery to be touched all the time.
my $0.02
Those are some crazy ideas you got there.
haha, I grew up in the auto wrecking yards with my dad. I used to run around the 2-3 acres of cars and play with the junkyard dogs. At the age of 5 my dad made me carry a .22 auto pistol in one pocket and a loaded mag in the other when I played. Incase I came across a dog or animal (rattlers) that was gonna bite me. Me 3, ratllers 0, foaming at the mouth dog 0.Those are some crazy ideas you got there.
Wow, a lot of weird advice going on here. The thing that scares me the most is that you all are talking about trigger pull weight's and switching out connectors to bring down trigger weight.
O.K. the thing you consider first is, if you do encounter an intruder you want the verify the threat first(know your target and whats behind it). A gun with a supper light trigger or really short trigger pull is dangerous in that if the intruder in a pitch dark house is one of you love ones, the last thing you want to do is shoot them. A heavy trigger gives you the safety of not shooting a loved one buy the increased pressure it take to touch off the round. Glock makes a parts to convert to a N.Y. Trigger(10+ pound trigger pull) It sounds heavy and it is but its the training that is going to save you and your family not the weapon. Mossberg makes a series of the 500 with a trigger like a double action (long trigger pull with increased weight) it comes with a rear ghost sight and a front high-viz that works really good in low light conditions. The shot gun should always be you first consideration when it comes to home defense, accuracy should always be at the forefront, shotguns in the hands of those with less traing can hit targets within home distances. Light shot loads also keep down the penetration factor in case of a miss you dont injure or harm those out side of your home. Handgun rounds will indeed zip through multiple walls, and will still cause injury going through many walls. There has been talk of Hollow points for self defense and it should be a no brainer but remember this, there has been studys that show when a H/P round is fired inside a house the hollow part of the round compacts with drywall and fills in the tip and basically turns the bullet into ball ammo and can and will increase penetration so it will penetrate more walls. Training again will help insure you are not putting anyone else in danger. When I am asked by someone what gun for self defense/home protection I will always say a Double action revolver. They are made in .45 and with full moon clips and with training can be reloaded faster than a semi-auto. The double action adds safety to ensure you are ready to shoot.Smith-wesson just started making a model with tactical rail below the barrel if you choose to hang a light off the front. Revolvers are easy to check the condition(loaded/un-loaded) and are a touch more reliable, not saying that semi-auto's are not reliable but revolvers are not prone to jamming by limp wristing(the action of griping a semi-auto lightly and causing a stove pipe jam) something that shows up in women shooters but can be corrected with training. If you can read anything by Mas Ayoob, he is the nation foremost expert when it comes to self defense and the trials and tribulations that come from it. Some of the trials that he has been a part of will blow your mind on how the Home Owner has been cast as the bad guy by the prosecution. His first word of advise for the person looking for self/home defense DO NOT alter the trigger in any way or use models with target(lightened) triggers its just one more thing that keeps you defense solid when it comes time to justify yourself in a court of law. Have a lawyer handy because if you do shoot someone even in your own home you will be arrested until the cops figure out what really went down and train, train and train some more. You are the king of your castle learn to defend it and your love ones, don't be a statistic.
Mike.
O.K. the thing you consider first is, if you do encounter an intruder you want the verify the threat first(know your target and whats behind it). A gun with a supper light trigger or really short trigger pull is dangerous in that if the intruder in a pitch dark house is one of you love ones, the last thing you want to do is shoot them. A heavy trigger gives you the safety of not shooting a loved one buy the increased pressure it take to touch off the round. Glock makes a parts to convert to a N.Y. Trigger(10+ pound trigger pull) It sounds heavy and it is but its the training that is going to save you and your family not the weapon. Mossberg makes a series of the 500 with a trigger like a double action (long trigger pull with increased weight) it comes with a rear ghost sight and a front high-viz that works really good in low light conditions. The shot gun should always be you first consideration when it comes to home defense, accuracy should always be at the forefront, shotguns in the hands of those with less traing can hit targets within home distances. Light shot loads also keep down the penetration factor in case of a miss you dont injure or harm those out side of your home. Handgun rounds will indeed zip through multiple walls, and will still cause injury going through many walls. There has been talk of Hollow points for self defense and it should be a no brainer but remember this, there has been studys that show when a H/P round is fired inside a house the hollow part of the round compacts with drywall and fills in the tip and basically turns the bullet into ball ammo and can and will increase penetration so it will penetrate more walls. Training again will help insure you are not putting anyone else in danger. When I am asked by someone what gun for self defense/home protection I will always say a Double action revolver. They are made in .45 and with full moon clips and with training can be reloaded faster than a semi-auto. The double action adds safety to ensure you are ready to shoot.Smith-wesson just started making a model with tactical rail below the barrel if you choose to hang a light off the front. Revolvers are easy to check the condition(loaded/un-loaded) and are a touch more reliable, not saying that semi-auto's are not reliable but revolvers are not prone to jamming by limp wristing(the action of griping a semi-auto lightly and causing a stove pipe jam) something that shows up in women shooters but can be corrected with training. If you can read anything by Mas Ayoob, he is the nation foremost expert when it comes to self defense and the trials and tribulations that come from it. Some of the trials that he has been a part of will blow your mind on how the Home Owner has been cast as the bad guy by the prosecution. His first word of advise for the person looking for self/home defense DO NOT alter the trigger in any way or use models with target(lightened) triggers its just one more thing that keeps you defense solid when it comes time to justify yourself in a court of law. Have a lawyer handy because if you do shoot someone even in your own home you will be arrested until the cops figure out what really went down and train, train and train some more. You are the king of your castle learn to defend it and your love ones, don't be a statistic.
Mike.
Damn straight Noob! Teach your kids to shoot and show them that they are not toys. The smiles on their faces will be the reward in it self.
As soon as my nephews turned of age I took them shooting so the wouldn't be at a friends house playing with a dad's gun unsupervised. Uncle mike has all the cool guns and know I find myself just being an R/O when I take them out. I shoot maybe a Mag or two the rest of the time I just lay back and look at there smiles and thank god I can give them this opportunity to be responsible shootist. Why should I shoot anyways they are all better shots then I can ever be. I can't even see the metal plate at 400 yds. Damn their young eyes.
Mike... I'm impressed. Good stuff there.
If there's a question of home defense weapons, never forget that it's the 21st century and we have more options now...
If there's a question of home defense weapons, never forget that it's the 21st century and we have more options now...
That'd be good to wake you up in time to get awake enough to get your firearm...sure isn't going to stop someone from doing you harm if that's what they intend to do.
People who think guns alone make them safe are idiots. People who think alarms or the cops alone make them safe are also idiots.
Personal and family security is a matter of mindset and a layered approach to counteracting your vulnerabilities. A gun is possibly going to save your family some day--or could be part of a horrendous tragedy. But nothing is going to keep you 100% safe--you have to accept some risk in life. Putting some thought to organizing your risk is a healthy and worthwhile thing.
Handguns would NOT be my personal choice for home defense if I wasn't a well-trained COMBAT handgun shooter.
A good dog would be my first choice before anything else, if my situation allowed it. But that's because I like animals.
Not the route i'd go for home defense.Mike... I'm impressed. Good stuff there.
If there's a question of home defense weapons, never forget that it's the 21st century and we have more options now...
dead men tell no tales...
Man, I wish I could find the statistic. Either way there's a surprisingly high percentage of people who are shot with their own guns.
ditto. noah shoots regularly at the range with me and i made sure to demonstrate the destructive power of a firearm the first time i took him out shooting. he respects them and never seems inquisitive about them at home, my only concern is when his friends come over to play. i can vouch for my son's common sense but not always for his paste eating friends....hence the reason i'm the only one in the house who knows the combo to the safe
as far as preference:
i carry a glock 22 (.40 cal) on duty and like it a lot, although i just replaced a magazine because it kept hanging up on me. but that is the ONLY issue i've had with it since '04 and a crapload of rounds have been fired through it.
personally though, i like the feel of a 1911 model just because it's slimmer and fits my chubby hands a little better...but i prefer the glock for duty due to it's simplicity and weight. i just use my kimber 1911 when mrs. manimal is being stingy and i need to pitch wood
i carry a taurus pt140 as my off-duty weapon, it's the same size as a baby glock (27) but it's a double action every shot which is kind of a bummer.....but it was cheap, doesn't jam and i'm too broke to buy something else right now
pic:
noah at about 5 yrs old.....this was before i realized that he is right handed/left eye dominant but you can definitely tell by the way he's holding his head in the pic.
Keep it in a safe they can't get into. As well don't tell them "never touch, guns bad." At least teach them how to be safe around firearms, or better yet teach them how to use them. Keep the guns out of the reach of the kids, but make it so they are comfortable around them and not scared.
Maybe you cant find it because it has been disproved.
pic:
noah at about 5 yrs old.....this was before i realized that he is right handed/left eye dominant but you can definitely tell by the way he's holding his head in the pic.
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Don't worry about the eye dominance thing if he is that old a shooting already. By the time he is a young teen he'll be shooting with both eyes and be a ringer.
noah at about 5 yrs old.....this was before i realized that he is right handed/left eye dominant but you can definitely tell by the way he's holding his head in the pic.
Don't worry about the eye dominance thing if he is that old a shooting already. By the time he is a young teen he'll be shooting with both eyes and be a ringer.
Actually, I shot a Glock extensively for the first time today. I admire the Glock more than most other handguns--as a product, it's unbeatable for performance, simplicity, and value, and an amazing feat of engineering.
But it doesn't fit my hand all too well, and there are no ergonomic adjustments (a'la Smith and Wesson M&P). Not that I have a choice in the matter, but I'll gladly stick with my SIG anyhow. I've trained so long and so hard with it that I just can't willingly use anything else. Glocks have a distinct grip angle, too, which causes me presentation issues. I'd have to spend a long time to correct that.
If you do get a Glock, get a 9mm (recommend 17 or 34 for home defense). Glock designed the guns around the 9mm cart.; everything else is an adaptation from the original design.
Don't believe anything about the Internet and gun-geek caliber wars. Pistol calibers are ALL weak, and no pistol caliber will knock anyone down or stop anyone all by itself. Once you've got a round powerful enough to penetrate bone, all that matters is shot placement. It's not about the tool, it's about the user. Cheap 9mm ammo lets you practice more, too.
Don't get a 1911. Think of it as a classic sports car--fun, with historical appeal for enthusiasts and a lot of character, but easily outperformed by most modern products. I love the single-stack (like Manimal, I have stubby fingers) and straight-back trigger, but it's too complex (mechanically and in the manual-of-arms) and requires the use of an external manual safety, which can be a liability for a carry gun.
So yeah, get a glock 9mm and spend all the cash you save on training, ammo, and a good system for keeping it out of the wrong hands. (and/or a dog, motion lights, alarm system, escape ladders, whatever...)
But it doesn't fit my hand all too well, and there are no ergonomic adjustments (a'la Smith and Wesson M&P). Not that I have a choice in the matter, but I'll gladly stick with my SIG anyhow. I've trained so long and so hard with it that I just can't willingly use anything else. Glocks have a distinct grip angle, too, which causes me presentation issues. I'd have to spend a long time to correct that.
If you do get a Glock, get a 9mm (recommend 17 or 34 for home defense). Glock designed the guns around the 9mm cart.; everything else is an adaptation from the original design.
Don't believe anything about the Internet and gun-geek caliber wars. Pistol calibers are ALL weak, and no pistol caliber will knock anyone down or stop anyone all by itself. Once you've got a round powerful enough to penetrate bone, all that matters is shot placement. It's not about the tool, it's about the user. Cheap 9mm ammo lets you practice more, too.
Don't get a 1911. Think of it as a classic sports car--fun, with historical appeal for enthusiasts and a lot of character, but easily outperformed by most modern products. I love the single-stack (like Manimal, I have stubby fingers) and straight-back trigger, but it's too complex (mechanically and in the manual-of-arms) and requires the use of an external manual safety, which can be a liability for a carry gun.
So yeah, get a glock 9mm and spend all the cash you save on training, ammo, and a good system for keeping it out of the wrong hands. (and/or a dog, motion lights, alarm system, escape ladders, whatever...)
I take it the rope is there to reset the pop up target?
yup...we have an awesome range, so cool that it's considered a "regional" training facility. we have a bunch of poppers, dualing trees, rifle plates and a 40 lane turning target system complete with shoot/no shoot pneumatic poppers and a runner. we just got a grant as well that will cover 2 shoot houses, 1 live and 1 modular for sim rounds along with a sniper tower that will double as a repel/building search area. me loves free ammo and a good place to use it
Something that needs to be said, and I am suprised noone has said this yet. If you plan on using any gun for home/personal defense, You need to be ready to KILL!!! Get that through your head before you buy ANY gun for defense, thats what they are made to do. If you cannot handle Killing someone in self defense and the thought of it will make you hesitate, You need to stick with a Baseball bat, Or a nice tazer of coarse.
Ok with that said, I really like the glock 22 Very nice weapon, lightweight, very dependable. decent price too.
When I carry, I usually carry My Model 13 S&W, thats a 3in barrel .357. Yes it has a fair amount of recoil, but again its dependable and easy to use. I do not carry a glock, because I do not own one myself as of yet, and I am only licensed as of current to carry teh Model 13. As far as hiome defense goes, I have a Mossburg 12g home defender 7 shot shotgun. No choke, slightly shorter barrel standard stock. #6 shot By the way
I have ONE very big reason for using a shotgun for home defense, If soemone is breaking into my home, and I yell "I have a GUN..... They may or may not belive me. But when I yell I have a gun, then rack the rather loud Mossburg defender......They know it. I know a Shotgun can miss, but tha fact is a shotgun is far more intimidating than a hand gun, specially with the sound
Again, I will reiterate the first part of my statement, if you are going to use a gun for home/self defense. You ned to first understand its a weapon for KILLING and you need to be ready to do so. Also I HIGHLY reccomend taking Classes on how to properly use a gun for defense, alot of people can shoot great, but need to know how to act in a panic situation.
Ok with that said, I really like the glock 22 Very nice weapon, lightweight, very dependable. decent price too.
When I carry, I usually carry My Model 13 S&W, thats a 3in barrel .357. Yes it has a fair amount of recoil, but again its dependable and easy to use. I do not carry a glock, because I do not own one myself as of yet, and I am only licensed as of current to carry teh Model 13. As far as hiome defense goes, I have a Mossburg 12g home defender 7 shot shotgun. No choke, slightly shorter barrel standard stock. #6 shot By the way
I have ONE very big reason for using a shotgun for home defense, If soemone is breaking into my home, and I yell "I have a GUN..... They may or may not belive me. But when I yell I have a gun, then rack the rather loud Mossburg defender......They know it. I know a Shotgun can miss, but tha fact is a shotgun is far more intimidating than a hand gun, specially with the sound
Again, I will reiterate the first part of my statement, if you are going to use a gun for home/self defense. You ned to first understand its a weapon for KILLING and you need to be ready to do so. Also I HIGHLY reccomend taking Classes on how to properly use a gun for defense, alot of people can shoot great, but need to know how to act in a panic situation.
If you have to keep a gun at home to protect your family, perhaps moving to a safer area would be a good idea.
Thats's just wrong.
Finland has the world's third highest rate of gun ownership according to a recent survey so they feel the need to protect themselves from something.
Is there ever a truly safe area to be? Students in finland thought they were safe until a student, 18, killed eight people and fatally wounded himself at his school in the town of Tuusula.
So keep telling yourself you live in a truly safe part of the world. I'll stay where I am and fight thank you very much.
I've got a few 23's, a handfull of 1911's.
If I was going to have one gun, and one gun only, for home defense, I would still want a .45. I like my .40's for carry, and I love my 10mm for out in the boonys, but if I had to have just one for the house, it would be my Springfield Operator TRP Marine edition.
It never jams.
Its the gun of choice for FBI HRT.
and if I run out of rounds, I can beat someone to death with it.
If I was going to have one gun, and one gun only, for home defense, I would still want a .45. I like my .40's for carry, and I love my 10mm for out in the boonys, but if I had to have just one for the house, it would be my Springfield Operator TRP Marine edition.
It never jams.
Its the gun of choice for FBI HRT.
and if I run out of rounds, I can beat someone to death with it.
Gun culture in the US and Finland is not the same, i.e. Finnish law only allows firearms for hunting and sport... not self defense. Therefore, despite occasional gun related crime most people choose not to arm themselves or live in fear (as stupid as it may seem).
Gun ownership is high here in Finland and shooting sports are quite popular. At my workplace, there is a shooting range where I keep my Glock 17. However, I choose not to take my gun home since I do not feel the need.
Gun ownership is high here in Finland and shooting sports are quite popular. At my workplace, there is a shooting range where I keep my Glock 17. However, I choose not to take my gun home since I do not feel the need.
Kudos to you for keeping up the sport of shooting. I have a few honest questions for you though.
If someone breaks into your home and endangers your family, how would you defend them?
How would you defend them if they were armed with a knife or other deadly object?
How would you defend them if there are multiple intruders?
Its Finland Sherm!
Possi's gonna be threatened by Reindeer?
Theres a low population density, a high rate of employment and a low rate of crime. There aren't the same societal pressures you see in the good o'le f**ked up USA.
As for the what if's I'm pretty sure Possi could throw a hard stare Norris style and the perp would be squirting play-doh
I have strategically placed mirrors in most of the rooms. Not only does this help indoor lighting during the dark months, it acts a clever distraction when foe enter my domicile. This allows my family and I to safely escape out the back door.
For multiple aggressors, I find nunchaku to be the most formidable weapon.
Question for the group:
Where the fvck do you live where home invasion is such a high risk that you need the capability of lethal force at all times?
Most crack heads that would break into a house can be taken out with minimal physical effort, and they wouldn't be breaking in when you were home anyway.
Where the fvck do you live where home invasion is such a high risk that you need the capability of lethal force at all times?
Most crack heads that would break into a house can be taken out with minimal physical effort, and they wouldn't be breaking in when you were home anyway.