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Gun owners - Your experience with Glock and Springfield

MikeD

Leader and Demogogue of the Ridemonkey Satinists
Oct 26, 2001
11,669
1,713
chez moi
Question for the group:

Where the fvck do you live where home invasion is such a high risk that you need the capability of lethal force at all times?


Most crack heads that would break into a house can be taken out with minimal physical effort, and they wouldn't be breaking in when you were home anyway.
Crackheads breaking into a house to steal stuff aren't the same as a home invasion.

That said, you're right, home invasion is a low risk--but if it happens to you, or one of any other myriad violent possibilities, it's high-stakes.

I agree that if you're planning for this sort of thing, however, you should work on some more likely scenarios (such as fire/medical emergency/natural disaster) before you plan for the one-in-a-hundred thousand shot (for most of us) that you're targeted in your home by a violent criminal. You should also work on deterrents and "hard targeting" as your primary way to keep ****heads away from your home and family. (Again, I'm a BIG fan of dogs.)

And I also agree that if you're not trained to use a gun as a practical tool for lethal force, not a way to punch holes in paper, it's a liability to your safety. As a security professional, I also endorse getting away from danger instead of trying to defend abstract notions of justice or "protecting your domain." But I also have to acknowledge that a home/family situation makes it very unlikely that you'll be able to evacuate your family from your home in the event of a break-in or invasion.

People who plan for the worst are not 'living in fear' as their detractors would have it. On the contrary, the prepared individual can be as relaxed as the person who chooses willing oblivion to danger in the name of "freedom from fear." Most people go through life without considering or preparing, and never face the consequences--and if they do, they don't look at their lack of preparation as a failure; they just see themselves as victims. But some of us don't have a victim mentality. You may make me a victim, but it'll be damned hard.

I spent the scariest night of my life (in comparison to receiving rocket and mortar fire) in our suburban hotel the other week when I had a 3 AM confrontation with some big, violent guys, and wisely got my ass out of harm's way and retreated to my room, where I had to face, for the first time, violence in the presence of my family. The dudes running up and down the hall screaming for my "nigger ass" (funny, cuz I'm a Jew of the palest pale) would have eaten a lot of lead if they'd only been sober enough to remember which door I'd escaped to. They were preparing to break down doors. Not cool, especially as I suspected at least one of them was armed, and if they started pounding my door down, they'd have met the threshold for reasonable use of deadly force.
 

DirtMcGirk

<b>WAY</b> Dumber than N8 (to the power of ten alm
Feb 21, 2008
6,379
1
Oz
There's that old saying "I'd rather have 12 men judge me then 6 men carry me..."

Or

"I carry a gun because a cop is just too damn heavy."

Who knows, the world is a strange place where I'd rather have it and not need it then vice versa.

You don't like/agree with guns?
Good for you, that's your choice.
However, its a CHOICE you've made, but please don't make it for the rest of us.

You think guns are icky?
Knitting is another good way to maintain a good trigger finger.

You think they should be banned?
Too late for that sparky. Come try to take mine first, I'll save others the time.
 

MikeD

Leader and Demogogue of the Ridemonkey Satinists
Oct 26, 2001
11,669
1,713
chez moi
I'm trying to educate myself the best I can to determine what this "threshold" is.
Depends on where you are, as different states say different things about it. Some places require you to try and escape before using lethal force ("obligation to retreat") whereas others say you have carte blanche to use lethal force against an intruder within your home.

Talk to your local police, perhaps.

However, the key in use of force is articulation of what you knew and why that made you feel threatened by a danger of serious bodily injury or death.
 

H8R

Cranky Pants
Nov 10, 2004
13,959
35
I agree that if you're planning for this sort of thing, however, you should work on some more likely scenarios (such as fire/medical emergency/natural disaster) before you plan for the one-in-a-hundred thousand shot (for most of us) that you're targeted in your home by a violent criminal. You should also work on deterrents and "hard targeting" as your primary way to keep ****heads away from your home and family. (Again, I'm a BIG fan of dogs.)
I agree. Buy a gun and learn how to use it if you feel the need, but damn - if you have a family and you live in a neighborhood where you need a gun, fvcking move buddy!

I just think there are way more dangerous things to worry about. I was way more scared of earthquakes than home invasion when I lived in Oakland. I was also more afraid of my daughter getting hurt in school than I was of her getting hurt at home. So we moved.

Now I'm just scared of earthquakes.
 

MikeD

Leader and Demogogue of the Ridemonkey Satinists
Oct 26, 2001
11,669
1,713
chez moi
I agree. Buy a gun and learn how to use it if you feel the need, but damn - if you have a family and you live in a neighborhood where you need a gun, fvcking move buddy!

I just think there are way more dangerous things to worry about. I was way more scared of earthquakes than home invasion when I lived in Oakland. I was also more afraid of my daughter getting hurt in school than I was of her getting hurt at home. So we moved.

Now I'm just scared of earthquakes.
Dude, no one needs a gun until they need a gun.

People outside what are considered "bad" places can be and are victims of violence. Many people in "bad" places can't afford to move, or simply don't want to.

Edit: Again, look at my encounter the other week. Ended up not needing to shoot anyone, but what if those dudes had tried to break through my door? Grabbing a kitchen knife and attacking them isn't exactly a tactically advantageous way to deal with them...two guys, bigger than me, in close proximity to my wife...potentially armed themselves.

This is not a hotel in a bad neighborhood. But no hotel staff came to my aid when I requested it, and there wasn't much to tell the cops after the first encounter...and it was too late for them to get there in time when they came back yelling threats.
 

MikeD

Leader and Demogogue of the Ridemonkey Satinists
Oct 26, 2001
11,669
1,713
chez moi
I can totally agree with that.

It's all about reducing the odds you would need one. That was my point.
Well geez, have you read my posts that you quoted? It seems we agree...
 

ultraNoob

Yoshinoya Destroyer
Jan 20, 2007
4,504
1
Hills of Paradise
MikeD... crazy stuff there man. As far as crackheads go. I was tossed 6 feet by an 85lb woman hopped up on speed. She took 2 orderlies out, tossed me across the room, and one nurse before I swept her legs and and somehow cuffed her. My scariest moment involved me trying to break up a 5 person brawl in an alley. One went for my gun... he met my fist then my asp.

I understand H8r's point about moving if you feel that you're in an unsafe area, but Mike also has a valid point.... some people can't afford to... *raises hand*... I'm fortunate enough to have received some damn valuable training in my day and continue to practice it at least once a month (more times in my head when I'm bored). But I don't rely on my firearm as my first line of defense. PDawg actually revealed one of my defenses. Mirrors or large picture frames strategically placed so I can see the "hidden" entrances from common areas. Hand to hand combat training is also a great tool too.
 

DirtyMike

Turbo Fluffer
Aug 8, 2005
14,437
1,017
My own world inside my head
I am in the group that cannot afford to live in the worlds safest neighborhood. If you think you can take out someone who is all methed out think again, they dont feel a damn thing. I dont keep a gun because I think My neighborhood is unsafe, But the town just over teh hill Mentone<AKA METHTONE> is what scares me. There isnt a big problem here, but at night the crackheads do there "shopping" in my town
 

H8R

Cranky Pants
Nov 10, 2004
13,959
35
I understand H8r's point about moving if you feel that you're in an unsafe area, but Mike also has a valid point.... some people can't afford to... *raises hand*...
I was fortunate enough to move away to where it's cheaper AND safer.
 

tacklespore

Monkey
Feb 3, 2008
102
0
Texas
I have both of them. If you are inexperience with firearms get the Springfield. I would rather shoot and tinker around with my Glock 23 though. I bring my Glock over the XD if I do carry.
 

H8R

Cranky Pants
Nov 10, 2004
13,959
35
Would a shotgun be worth a damn in a home defense situation?

(in comparison)
 

N8 v2.0

Not the sharpest tool in the shed
Oct 18, 2002
11,003
149
The Cleft of Venus
Would a shotgun be worth a damn in a home defense situation?

(in comparison)
some debate about that... with a shotgun you have a huge chance of collateral damage as a result of the blast and the '00 buckshot goes it's way..

with a pistol you have a better opportunity to make the shots go where you want them. In my house, I would opt for the pistol (1911 series 80 in my case).

If I was clearing my property then a shotgun would be the way to go.
 

ultraNoob

Yoshinoya Destroyer
Jan 20, 2007
4,504
1
Hills of Paradise
00 buck for home defense?! Only if I were defending against bear. Rock salt or bird shot. Bird shot will give you a nice spread and be enough to knock an intruder down and make him writhe in pain so you can kick him in the nuts repeatedly. Rock salt would be more humane though cuz you're helping him disinfect the wounds.
 

N8 v2.0

Not the sharpest tool in the shed
Oct 18, 2002
11,003
149
The Cleft of Venus
00 buck for home defense?! Only if I were defending against bear. Rock salt or bird shot. Bird shot will give you a nice spread and be enough to knock an intruder down and make him writhe in pain so you can kick him in the nuts repeatedly. Rock salt would be more humane though cuz you're helping him disinfect the wounds.
the last thing i want to do is wound an intruder and give him a chance to get back up again... jesus.. how many movies have you seen where the bad guy is still alive after the hero starts celebrating?

:p
 

ultraNoob

Yoshinoya Destroyer
Jan 20, 2007
4,504
1
Hills of Paradise
hence the kicking in the nuts part.... I neglected mention that you could shoot him again if he got up. Thought that was a given. I have a somewhat morbid sense of pain/suffering... just ask the guys I ride with when I say... "hmm, let's go this way"
 

N8 v2.0

Not the sharpest tool in the shed
Oct 18, 2002
11,003
149
The Cleft of Venus
hence the kicking in the nuts part.... I neglected mention that you could shoot him again if he got up. Thought that was a given. I have a somewhat morbid sense of pain/suffering... just ask the guys I ride with when I say... "hmm, let's go this way"
ah.. you're 'that guy'...


:p
 

DirtMcGirk

<b>WAY</b> Dumber than N8 (to the power of ten alm
Feb 21, 2008
6,379
1
Oz


"AK-47, the very best there is. When you absolutely, positively, have to kill every single mother****er in the room; accept no substitute."
 

DirtyMike

Turbo Fluffer
Aug 8, 2005
14,437
1,017
My own world inside my head
00 buck for home defense?! Only if I were defending against bear. Rock salt or bird shot. Bird shot will give you a nice spread and be enough to knock an intruder down and make him writhe in pain so you can kick him in the nuts repeatedly. Rock salt would be more humane though cuz you're helping him disinfect the wounds.
I agree, 00 buck is just too damn big for the home, #6 bird shot will do just fine, and is plenty lethal. AND you wont have bullets going through your neighbors walls either!!
 

DirtMcGirk

<b>WAY</b> Dumber than N8 (to the power of ten alm
Feb 21, 2008
6,379
1
Oz


We'll compromise, 10ga Street Sweeper with a slung under Mac 10.


And 00buck is the only thing I put in my 870. I like the idea of the "flying pudding cup of death"
 

I_N_I

Chimp
Sep 25, 2007
26
0
Birdshot is for birds, and cannot be relied upon to penetrate the vitals of the bad guy.