[ZHendo]

I'm running a GX Eagle drivetrain on my Sentinel, and shifting has gotten a bit rough in the last month or so. I built the bike in March and rode it through the summer averaging 2 days or so per week, so got some decent mileage on the drivetrain. Anywho, went to swap the chain to a new KMC 12 speed X12, and it isn't meshing properly with the teeth in the 2 largest cogs on the cassette, riding up on top of the teeth rather rather than engaging them. It's also hanging up on some (apparently) bent teeth on the smaller cogs as well.

I checked the original GX chain that I was hoping to replace, and it's still showing less than 0.50 on my chain checker, which to me is the threshold for 11 and 12 speed chains being worn. Is it possible that the GX cassette is just made of shit materials and is already worn with only ~600 miles on it? Or are there issues with KMC's 12 speed chains?

Curious if any of you guys have run into similar issues.

 

[lobsterCT]

How big are you?

I'm about 240. XTR/XT cassettes last a season at most for me with 2 chain changes. My wife is tiny, took about 3 seasons for her to wear out her cassette.

 

[ZHendo]

I'm not a particularly big guy, about 170-175 kitted up. Strong climber, but not a pedal masher.

 

[dcamp29]

probably should try to use a sram chain before replacing the expensive cassette. Usually takes me a ride or two to get a new chain 'worn' to an older cassette and working smoothly.

the cassettes don't wear fast- only the 50t is aluminum, the rest are steel.

 

[Gallain]

Go with sram chains. We sell and service a lot of bikes with Eagle drivetrains and 0.75 is usually good. We've stopped selling kmc chains. Sram and shimano only.

 

[Electric_City]

I broke more sram chains than I can count. I ran a kmc for 6 years with one missing link (the original one). I'm heavier than most of you and mash.




Then again, it was a 2x8 speed and an 8 speed chain.

 

[mykel]

I broke more sram chains than I can count. I ran a kmc for 6 years with one missing link (the original one). I'm heavier than most of you and mash.




Then again, it was a 2x8 speed and an 8 speed chain.

Same.
Imma clyde as well.
Been running KMC X Ti coated from 9 speed on,
Last two chains I broke were both early 9 speed SRAM.

What that means for 11 and 12 speed, I have no idea as I'm still on a wide range Praxxis 10 speed.

 

[StiHacka]

11sp SRAM x1 and x11 chains are the tittays.

Same.
Imma clyde as well.
Been running KMC X Ti coated from 9 speed on,
Last two chains I broke were both early 9 speed SRAM.

What that means for 11 and 12 speed, I have no idea as I'm still on a wide range Praxxis 10 speed.

I run 10sp drive train with 11sp sram xx1 & x1 chains. They are significantly better than anything kmc makes for 10sp.

 

[FlipSide]

How tight is your GX Eagle derailleur? Are you sure the rough shifting is not related to the derailleur? Mine is loose AF after only about 10 days of riding or so and I also experience uneven shifting.

I even showed my derailleur to my mechanic at the lbs to see if it was a warranty issue. He told me he'd seen worse GX Eagle on brand new bikes. I guess the tolerances are not super tight for the GX Eagle... I was expecting more.

I can see an XO1 derailleur in my future. Having known, I would have upgraded right away.

 

[ZHendo]

My GX derailleur actually isn't too sloppy at all - not as tight as Shimano derailleurs I've had in the past, but on par with other SRAM product I've had recently. The X01 derailleur is over 2x the price of GX in most cases, so its a hard sale for me.

I ordered an X01 chain and will give that a go - I know that it's time to replace my current chain, and if the X01 shows up and meshes with the cassette properly, then at least I know I can milk this cassette for a bit more life. Even a $60 chain is a bargain compared to how damn expensive these cassettes are now.

 

[mykel]

You guys are not helping.

I was about to put a check box beside the GX/X01 on the new build.
Was thinking

X01 Shifter
GX Derailleur
GX Cassette

Now am back wondering if I should just go

XTR Shifter
XT Derailleur
Garbaruk or maybe E-13 cassette


I have found in the past the best compromise is a better shifter and lower derailleur.
Is this still generally the case?

 

[6thElement]

Wife and I have 11 speed GX shifters, derailleur and 1150 cassettes one pair of our bikes with no issues. I don't recall the derailleur seeming any different to her X1 on one bike or my X01 on another. I can't afford monocle Eagle variants.

 

[SkaredShtles]

<snip> I can't afford monocle Eagle variants.

DINK - you're lying.

 

[canadmos]

You guys are not helping.

I was about to put a check box beside the GX/X01 on the new build.
Was thinking

X01 Shifter
GX Derailleur
GX Cassette

Now am back wondering if I should just go

XTR Shifter
XT Derailleur
Garbaruk or maybe E-13 cassette


I have found in the past the best compromise is a better shifter and lower derailleur.
Is this still generally the case?

My only input is that Sram shifting feels a lot better to me. Not even really how it feels while shifting, but that SNAP you get from the shifter when you push it.

The cassettes are just obnoxiously priced though.

 

[6thElement]

DINK - you're lying.

I have a fleet of 12 to maintain!

 

[SkaredShtles]

I have a fleet of 12 to maintain!

 

[FlipSide]

You guys are not helping.

Sorry...

Not my video, but this gives you an idea of the slop you can expect from a GX Eagle derailleur.

It's interesting to note that the price difference is much less between the NX and GX than it is between GX and X01 Eagle. I guess we can expect the X01 to be much better the GX (I certainly hope so...)

I'm not ready to ditch SRAM for Shimano just yet. I'm still willing to try the X01 and I'm quite confident it'll be good. My 11sp XX1 drivetrain has probably been my favorite bike part ever. Expensive, but so stiff, light and reliable.

 

[mykel]

Uggg...

I've seen better tolerances come out of a blacksmiths forge, seriously not cool on something that is supposed to be a premium product.

Scratches GX off of the list.

X01 on the shifty bits and GX on the cassette? I know it's heavy, but damn, even at GX it is stoopid priced.

 

[FlipSide]

Uggg...

I've seen better tolerances come out of a blacksmiths forge, seriously not cool on something that is supposed to be a premium product.

Yeah! I also overestimated the quality of GX. I may have gotten a bad one, but it seems I'm not the only one. I have no complaints about the crank and cassette, but I'd rate the derailleur a notch above "cheapo OEM". Seriously way too crappy to be fitted on a 7000$CDN bike.

Seeing this, there seems to be quite a gap between the low-to-mid quality GX and the high quality X01. The best compromise is indeed probably X01 shifter + derailleur with a GX cassette if you don't mind the weight.

 

[manhattanprjkt83]

shimano grey stuff, always works...sylence.

 

[toodles]

GX Eagle is shite. Avoid it if you ride anything but a windtrainer. Mine got warrantied after it died horribly first muddy ride. Immediately sold the replacement and whole groupset and went 11spd.

I've had great luck running 11spd GX mechs combined with a good SRAM shifter on 11spd Shimano cassettes. The SRAM cassettes are heaps lighter, but only go up to 42T in 11spd.

 

[Jm_]

I'm on 11, but I have X01 on two bikes and it's great, the third has XT/XTR and I don't like the extra force that it takes to push it into gear. All three hold adjustment great and have no noticeable slop. I'm not sure which one is the oldest, but they are all at least 2 years old. I do have a crap X9 10spd drivetrain I install for summer commuting. Tons of slop there.

 

[ZHendo]

The GX cassette seems fine, but damn is it heavy, and that big aluminum cog wears pretty quick. It's not too much more for the e13 12 speed cassette, which has separately replaceable aluminum and steel sections...might be worth a look, though there hasn't been much feedback on performance/durability of that latest effort on their part, and I've found e13 stuff to be hit or miss.

 

[mykel]

For anybody interested.
Stumbled across this spreadsheet comparing cassette weight, cost, gears, range etc.

 

[Flo33]

You must spread reputation to at least 4 other user(s) before you can give reputation to mykel again.

 

[SuboptimusPrime]

You must spread reputation to at least 4 other user(s) before you can give reputation to mykel again.

Gotcha covered.

 

[Gallain]

btw have you used the special tool to check the distance between your cassette and top jockey wheel? Have had so many customers not adjusting the b-tension properly. Eagle is really sensitive to get that right.

And go for xo1 shifter. The gx feels like a cheap toy compared to xo1

 

[ZHendo]

Yeah I have used the special tool, so I think B-tension is good. X01 shifter is on my list of upgrades for the new year...

 

[Happymtb.fr]

Gotcha covered.

#metoo

 

[Udi]

Now am back wondering if I should just go

XTR Shifter
XT Derailleur
Garbaruk or maybe E-13 cassette

Shimano shifters (including XT, XTR) suck compared to the high-end SRAM shifters. I've found the derailleurs pretty average too in terms of play and longevity, nothing like the old M952 days. As canadmos said, actual shifting performance is substantially better with SRAM, especially long term when things start getting worn.

I have found in the past the best compromise is a better shifter and lower derailleur. Is this still generally the case?

Of course it is, but the real answer here is that "the best compromise" is still a compromise.
If there was no functional benefit to getting an X01 derailleur over a GX no one would buy them.

My take - X01 shifter, X01 derailleur, and whatever cassette you can afford.
Shimano cassettes are still good in my book and work perfectly fine with the above, I find the Shimano chains good too but I only use the XTR/DA ones. To echo many of the above comments, 11spd is 100% the go if you don't need the extra range of 12. Lighter and more durable.

Also, if anyone was wondering why the XX1-11 cassette weighs exactly the same as the X01-11 but costs more, it's because the plating (and thus the entire cassette) lasts significantly longer. You do get what you pay for with all this stuff - so while "high-end shifter + low-end everything else" will give you the best shifting performance on a restricted budget, the longevity + durability of the entire system comes from money spent on the other parts.

 

[Electric_City]

To each their own I guess.

I've used Gripshifts and Shimano and sram triggers over the years and never had an issue going between them on my different bikes and they all shifted great. In 2017 I had GX shifting on my Spartan and liked it. Until I realized that I kept trying to shift to a harder gear with my index finger and it was nearly impossible. I've done this in the past with my old sram setup, but not this one. The shifting was precise, but annoying as hell when I went to shift 50%of the time. I sold the 2 year old GX stuff for $80 on ebay and bought SLX to replace it for $80. With such disposable items as derailleurs, I can't justify spending over $60. Ive only toasted 3 derailleurs in my riding career. But I'd hate to spend $250 and ruin my 4th one the day I replaced it. A $1,000 drivetrain shouldn't shift any better than a $200 drivetrain anyway.

 

[slyfink]

Also, if anyone was wondering why the XX1-11 cassette weighs exactly the same as the X01-11 but costs more, it's because the plating (and thus the entire cassette) lasts significantly longer. You do get what you pay for with all this stuff - so while "high-end shifter + low-end everything else" will give you the best shifting performance on a restricted budget, the longevity + durability of the entire system comes from money spent on the other parts.

I've never had any reason to question your statements before, and don't take this as a slight please, but I'd like to know what your source is on this? I saw that, and had that very same question. For the sake of specificity, we're talking about XG-1199 vs XG-1195. Both same weight (268g).

On their website, SRAM says the 1195 (XO1) uses their "Jet Black Finish" which they claim increases corrosion resistance. But you suggest the 1199 (XX1) is more durable... Now that could all be marketing drivel, but I can't find a reason to choose 1199 over 1195... Which is why I'd love to see your source.

I've been truly amazed by the longevity of the XO1 cassette on my current ride. It has three seasons of use on it. I used to replace my XT cassettes once a year. But this one keeps going and going. It's starting to show signs of wear now, so I'm getting ready to replace it. I'm sold on their x-dome concept, and want to maximise longevity... But just want to be sure I'm getting the most durable cassette.

 

[StiHacka]

I like the concept of e13 cassettes - biggest 3 cogs are a one piece aluminum cluster, last somewhere between 1-1.5k miles (for me) and can be replaced for $100. The remaining cogs are two steel clusters bolted together. They can also be replaced individually, but they last forever from what I can tell so far.

 

[Jm_]

I've been truly amazed by the longevity of the XO1 cassette on my current ride. It has three seasons of use on it. I used to replace my XT cassettes once a year. But this one keeps going and going. It's starting to show signs of wear now, so I'm getting ready to replace it. I'm sold on their x-dome concept, and want to maximise longevity... But just want to be sure I'm getting the most durable cassette.

Same here. The X01 has been a great value for me, lightweight as it gets and lasts years. I'd usually get about a year out of the old XT 11-36 cassettes, so to stretch these to 3 seasons is great. I had a little teething issues with the small cogs the last time I changed the chain, but that too went away, but spread over 3 seasons (and I'll get more out of it next year), that ain't bad.

This basic design simply kicked shimano in the rear, they had no way to answer to it for years, moving the torque inboard and making all but the largest gear out of one piece was a big step forward for cassettes.

In general, I like my X01 drivetrains better than my M8000/9000 one. A lot of people still think that shimano stuff is "easier" to click or takes "less force", but that's not true at all with the "000" components, shimano went too far in the opposite direction IMO.

 

[6thElement]

I'm using the 1150's on our bikes, slightly heavier due to the steel 42T, but we spend so much time grinding up climbs that big cog gets a lot of use and $80 each on ebay is just fine with me.

 

[FlipSide]

Same here. The X01 has been a great value for me, lightweight as it gets and lasts years. I'd usually get about a year out of the old XT 11-36 cassettes, so to stretch these to 3 seasons is great. I had a little teething issues with the small cogs the last time I changed the chain, but that too went away, but spread over 3 seasons (and I'll get more out of it next year), that ain't bad.

Same experience with an 11sp XX1.

I'm actually slightly bummed I bought a spare XX1 cassette a few years ago when I saw one at a good price online. I never felt the need to change the original cassette... Same story for the XX1 derailleur: I bought a spare which I never needed. My beat-up XX1 derailleur is still almost as good as new... Certainly much better than the brand new GX Eagle POS I have on my new bike.

 

[Udi]

On their website, SRAM says the 1195 (XO1) uses their "Jet Black Finish" which they claim increases corrosion resistance. But you suggest the 1199 (XX1) is more durable... Now that could all be marketing drivel, but I can't find a reason to choose 1199 over 1195... Which is why I'd love to see your source.

Sauce: me
Definitely not saying the X01 cassette is not good, that might have been misconstrued. I think the whole X01-11 drivetrain is excellent (including the cassette), 268g is incredibly impressive for an all-steel-except-for-biggest-cog cassette. e13/Hope/etc are a joke in my book because anyone can make a light cassette when half the gears are aluminium. But the black plating on the X01 does wear off slightly faster exposing the gear steel underneath, whereas the XX1-11 is hard nickel plated (same as top-end chains) and in my experience gets slightly longer mileage. Open to hearing if you've tried both and had a different experience.

So I'm not saying the X01 cassette is bad (at all, it's great and lasts plenty long) - I'm just saying the XX1 is a little better still. It's a minor difference though and I'd happily run either!

The point I was making was more in regard to the X01 vs. GX derailleur, in which case the magnitude of durability / longevity difference is much greater, and I see value in spending the extra there if keeping parts for ages. The shifter of course isn't even a question, and the X01-11 shifter is my favourite of all time.