[William42]

Sorry, I'm confused. What race don't you see on there? 2012 PMB is definitely there. And the iXS at Leogang where he nailed himself is there. Val di Sole 2012 he didn't do, so it's not there. Which race is it that you think is missing?

Ah, its not in the race by race performance graphic, I was too lazy to scroll down and notice that you had a more complete list below. As far as I can see on the graphic, the only 2012 races that are there are some Australian Gravity races and Sea Otter. But now that you point it out I do see it below on the list.

 

[intensified]

Great points Seb.
Is the race season all year in the UK? The season is 6 months here in the northeast (aside from some random snow races).
That's impressive that 300 riders show up for a dh race, is the enduro racing catching on over there as well?

 

[- seb]

Great points Seb.
Is the race season all year in the UK? The season is 6 months here in the northeast (aside from some random snow races).
That's impressive that 300 riders show up for a dh race, is the enduro racing catching on over there as well?

300 is our national series (you've probably heard of the "BDS") and some of the more popular regional series, like the Pearce Cycles series. 300 entries and they sell out in a day. Then there's a load at 200 or so, and then there's the smaller (or new) organisers who get 100 or so.

Enduro racing seems to be getting pretty popular, definitely. Not as many races as DH at the moment, but good numbers at the ones that their are.

April - October is the key season, that's when most races fall. But there's races all year around really. This is the UK DH calendar for this year, with arguably the most popular series highlighted:

http://www.rootsandrain.com/calendar/#!/2013/gb/dh/288,307,286,272/

 

[- seb]

I think US suckage is attributed to:
1) No gov't health insurance
2) not enough free time due to long work week/skimpy vacation time
3) lawsuit mentality
4) blazing J's and lift whoring with friends doing dawn to dusk runs beats track walks and 5 run weekends.

1 & 2 were other ones that we'd come up with, forgot those. How does the lawsuit mentality affect your race pace?

 

[gemini2k]

1) chairlifts. Definitely wrong

2) single-race runs. maybe?

3) too many categories. Without a doubt, makes me vomit

4) distance. Definitely

1 & 2 were other ones that we'd come up with, forgot those. How does the lawsuit mentality affect your race pace?

Lawsuit mentality affects the availability of racing. We have TONS of awesome terrain here, incredibly challenging stuff. But legal issues (thats meant to be a broad term) reduces the availability of trails, and even more so where you can race. Look at Fontana. You have this sh1t hole area they hold races with almost half a dozen ski resorts within an hour away?

1) is definitely wrong. DH is one of the hardest sports in the world to practice, way harder than even moto (TO PRACTICE, not to do). Anything that helps you get more saddle time on technical DH terrain helps. Charlifts are by far the best way to do that.

I think part of the problem with the resorts in North America is that they are too "bike parky". Look at say mammoth or even Whistler. Probably 75% of Whistler is buffed out jump trails. The rest is kind of freeride-y, steep rock roller stuff, or slow tight singletrack through trees. Maybe only 1 or 2 trails are real, high speed, technical DH. All of which is fun, but isn't gonna help you on VDS or MSA. Mammoth has a little bit more maybe (percentage wise), but aside from a single trail (Upper Velocity), it's nowhere near as steep as it could or should be. Looking at most of the race trails in the U.K. they may be short, but they are straight down the hill, very little of this flat, switchbacking, big berms, you see on North America stuff.

That being said, there is plenty of high speed, technical, steep stuff to ride around here, it's just not chairlift access, and it one level below the level of WC stuff that it needs to emulate.

 

[dan-o]

1 & 2 were other ones that we'd come up with, forgot those. How does the lawsuit mentality affect your race pace?

The legal angle hinders trail development and discourages promoters.

 

[Sandwich]

I think there's a lot of good terrain available in the us, at least in the northeast. Bromont is rad, jiminy is rad, and plattekill and creek keep getting better. Hell, the two best us juniors have come out of the northeast, so terrain is no excuse.

I think the larger problem is that a lot of us riders don't think or realize that training is as critical as skill. Some of the best racers have come from bmx and also from mx. You cannot not train in those sports. I've met a few top level cat 1 guys that just don't want it bad enough to sacrifice having a real job and income to race bikes.

 

[- seb]

Totally, your terrain is brutal compared to the UK. Rocky as hell compared to 90% of our tracks. The tracks seemed quite "untechnical" at the same time though. Hard to explain. Tracks in the US tend to be very wide all the way down, we have a lot more tight twisty stuff in the UK. Sure you'd have some gnarly rock sections, but they rarely required much precision to ride. Normally just a dollop of speed to carry you over.

My first race back after 5 weeks in the US was our National Champs. Look how technical and tight the section from 1min50 - 2min50
Downhill National Championships 2013 – Ride.io Team Headcam on Vimeo

(I'm the guy that he follows from 40 seconds in, and again from 2min30). I plain SUCKED in that techy stuff that weekend, I just couldn't get used to it after all of the balls-out fast and wide-open stuff in the States.

 

[- seb]

Oh and as an aside, one of the things that we noticed most about riding in the USA, is you guys have NO race-track etiquette at all. I lost count of the number of practice runs that I did where I'd come flying round a corner only to find people stood in the track, or sat in the track on their bikes. As soon as you stop, get out of the track, or at least *well* off of the racing line. And bear in mind not everyone rides the same lines.

Oh, and use your ears - I'm far from quiet when I'm smashing down a track... why are you still in the middle of the track when I get there

 

[Tomasz]

I think that we should be clear that it's rabid environmentalism, not liability issues, which limits US trail access.

Maybe it's liability stuff which limits actual competitions, I don't know there, but with actual trails it's the enviros.

 

[4130biker]

I think that we should be clear that it's rabid environmentalism, not liability issues, which limits US trail access.

Maybe it's liability stuff which limits actual competitions, I don't know there, but with actual trails it's the enviros.

Here in the PNW, there are plenty of working forests (logged from time to time) that would be/ are amazing for DH trails, but everyone, land managers and private owners are either scared of, or use liability as an excuse.

 

[gemini2k]

Totally, your terrain is brutal compared to the UK. Rocky as hell compared to 90% of our tracks. The tracks seemed quite "untechnical" at the same time though. Hard to explain. Tracks in the US tend to be very wide all the way down, we have a lot more tight twisty stuff in the UK. Sure you'd have some gnarly rock sections, but they rarely required much precision to ride. Normally just a dollop of speed to carry you over.

I agree completely. The UK race tracks definitely look a bit sketchier at all times. I think their is a mindset in the U.S. that the races courses need to cater to the lowest common denominator a lot of the time. And then when they actually DO make them "hard" they just add giant jumps, which aren't hard, just risky. Highly steep or technical rock sections are few and far between. Even the Mammoth Pro GRT on Bullet isn't really that techy, only 1 or 2 rock gardens are kind tough, but not really. The China Peak Pro GRT course did look legitimately sketchy and technical. We need more of that stuff. But yeah, 90% of the race tracks can be ridden at a close-to-race-pace on 5 inch travel bikes.

Edit: They need to start racing on trails like this

and this

[video]http://www.vitalmtb.com/videos/member/Ranch-Trail,1931/Cleetis,1831[/video]

Oh and as an aside, one of the things that we noticed most about riding in the USA, is you guys have NO race-track etiquette at all.
Oh, and use your ears - I'm far from quiet when I'm smashing down a track... why are you still in the middle of the track when I get there

Come ride Snow Summit with me, 80% of the fun of that place now is just harassing gapers when they get in your way.

I think that we should be clear that it's rabid environmentalism, not liability issues, which limits US trail access.

Maybe it's liability stuff which limits actual competitions, I don't know there, but with actual trails it's the enviros.

I think it's a lot of both. Sadly neither are based on facts and reason. I wish someone would explain to me one day why its okay to clear cut a forest to make a ski run and install a ski lift, but cutting an 18 inch wide single track through the trees next to it is a fvcking environmental catastrophe.

 

[Sandwich]

Totally, your terrain is brutal compared to the UK. Rocky as hell compared to 90% of our tracks. The tracks seemed quite "untechnical" at the same time though. Hard to explain. Tracks in the US tend to be very wide all the way down, we have a lot more tight twisty stuff in the UK. Sure you'd have some gnarly rock sections, but they rarely required much precision to ride. Normally just a dollop of speed to carry

Mm, I think it depends on where you go and the trail builder. I found that a lot of places use that wide ski hill junk as a way to connect actual "trail" sections. The other side is that a lot of course builders tape very narrow, so any sketchiness is rewarded with instant failure as you go off course. That keeps speeds relatively low instead of letting people pick their own line and reap risk and reward. The east coast, in my experience, has a dichotomy of wide open junk and tight low speed death marches. Somewhere in between is a bit better representation of wc style courses, I think.

For example, did you like sugarbush? There was the open ski hill start, followed by a nicely wide taped middle section, then it tapered down to a more narrow single track, if I recall correctly. I thought that was a nice course, especially with the wet and sketchy conditions. I think bromont is pretty rad too, particularly the "old" wc course area. Brutally fast and technical. Did you ride jiminy while you were out? That's my new favorite on the east coast. Steep in sections, wide trails, and high speeds if you ride them right.

Anyways, it's hard for me to believe that lack of terrain is an excuse for gwin to not be awesome, as the same available terrain has made Neko and richie rude awesomer.

 

[herbman]

All this talk of terrain is a bit meh.

To ride fast you have to ride with other fast people, its why the ozzies were fast a few years ago, the kiwis are stronge and why the uk rides are doing well now.
They are racing other WC level racers at there local races and if they want to win they have to lift there game to a WC level, where as it seems in the US there are only a hand full of WC riders and they are spread to thin to race each other week to week. Look at the US riders doing well and they are the ones who have been racing WCs rather than local races.

And there also seems to be this cop out of " fastest Merica "

 

[StabprimoMonkee]

Thanks for turning this into a "Why Britain and Brits is so awsum!" thread.

As if assholes Page and Warner didn't do enough of it already. Red Bull live streams should be renamed to: "Awsum Brits and their cousins riding bikes. And we throw in an occasional joke about foreigners (of which we have no actual knowledge) too!

Thanks a lot.

 

[trib]

take a second, take a deep breath, then, making sure to bite down on something take the stick out of your ass.

no one said britain is better, just looking at the differences between two competitive nations and how britain is making more of less.

Back to the actual racing, I think Gee or Smith will take it. Hard to bet against either of them, they're both raging after champs too

 

[scottishmark]

Thanks for turning this into a "Why Britain and Brits is so awsum!" thread.

As if assholes Page and Warner didn't do enough of it already. Red Bull live streams should be renamed to: "Awsum Brits and their cousins riding bikes. And we throw in an occasional joke about foreigners (of which we have no actual knowledge) too!

Thanks a lot.

That's quite alright, I'm sure you lot'll turn it back into "'MERICA F**K YEAH!" as soon as Rawk Jesus hauls ass today. Oh, wait......

 

[StabprimoMonkee]

That's quite alright, I'm sure you lot'll turn it back into "'MERICA F**K YEAH!" as soon as Rawk Jesus hauls ass today. Oh, wait......

See, you thought you are putting me in my place. But you are merely proving my point.

One is either a commonwealth citizen, retarded yankee cousin or a token french (Cedric Gracia). Everybody else is just a kaffir grade savage.

 

[- seb]

I'm rooting for Sick Mick today, for what it's worth. Though I'd be pretty happy if Gee added another win to his belt. Both of those guys have had too many 2nd/3rd/4ths over the years!

 

[scottishmark]

See, you thought you are putting me in my place. But you are merely proving my point.

One is either a commonwealth citizen, retarded yankee cousin or a token french (Cedric Gracia). Everybody else is just a kaffir grade savage.

you are really over thinking this.

 

[Kevin]

See, you thought you are putting me in my place. But you are merely proving my point.

One is either a commonwealth citizen, retarded yankee cousin or a token french (Cedric Gracia). Everybody else is just a kaffir grade savage.

Chill out dude, its just the internet...

I never did understand how people are allways complaining about services they get for free.
I think the coverage is ****ing awesome, cant wait till the finals!!

 

[epic]

Anybody think Hart takes the win in the mud?

 

[slyfink]

Hart puts one good run in the wet and somehow he's the mud specialist?! I think there's plenty of good wet-weather riders out there, notably Gee, Smith, Sam, Blenki, Minnaar, as well as Hart of course. I think it's anyone's race, but the top five predicted in the dry will still be the top 5 in the wet...

 

[richardbigman]

looks like the junior men got mangled, most of the top lads had DNF's.... so presume the rain has arrived

nice game changer to make it even more interesting.

Suding took some digger in practice...

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=571106872949040&set=vb.123645314350878&type=2&theater

don't see many head tube failures these days.....

 

[scottishmark]

fook me! That's gonna hurt.... and also hurt GTs marketing dept.

 

[schwaaa31]

Holy sh!t. He's lucky to be alive.

 

[Gary]

GT has a marketing dept? ha ha... They should just stick a homebase/B&Q voucher in with all their frames like the old days

 

[EVIL JN]

Fookoshima that has got to hurt, where is the alu whorshipers now? Dont think I will see a v10 do that

 

[- seb]

looks like the junior men got mangled, most of the top lads had DNF's.... so presume the rain has arrived

Not sure where you're looking, I only see one DNF.

Full Junior Men's results:

http://www.rootsandrain.com/race1507/2013-sep-15-uci-world-cup-5-hafjell-bike-park/#hjuniorm

Seb

 

[scottishmark]

Fookoshima that has got to hurt, where is the alu whorshipers now? Dont think I will see a v10 do that

Oh dear, you're a marketeers wet dream!

 

[Kevin]

50mins!!

 

[- seb]

Dammit, just saw the women's result on facebook. Stupid Seb.

 

[frango]

Congrats to Rachel for another win!

 

[EVIL JN]

Oh dear, you're a marketeers wet dream!

Meh, more like biased. Been runnig a v10 since last year, will be running it next year too. Have you watched SC video where they test the old alu and new cf v10 front triangles? Pretty convincing for me atleast, besides I look at geo and cs long before material. SC just happens to have all three dialed.

Off course alu bikes can be made to last, I would suspect Suding's case was of either FRO tubing that had seen its best before date or maybe was an inconsistent prototype.

Today I expect all bikes from big nd reputable companies to hold up to substatial amounts of abuse

 

[- seb]

Have you watched SC video where they test the old alu and new cf v10 front triangles? Pretty convincing for me atleast

Did you think they'd put out a video showing anything else? Carbon's their new material, of course they're going to make a video showing it dicking all over aluminium. For all we know the ally frames were weakened and the carbon ones had 20% more layers than the production models. Just saying.

 

[4130biker]

FYI for anyone having trouble with viewing it on a smartphone/ tablet- make sure your redbull tv app is updated if the race isn't showing up at all. I just had an old version and all it showed me was a bunch of preprogrammed crap. Updated the app and now it's working fine.

I'm rooting for Mik- I would love to see him take a win- him or Hill.

 

[Dogboy]

Needles has been in the hot seat for 52 riders now. Wow!

 

[bismojo]

looks like the track (and wind) got worst and worst..

 

[Dogboy]

looks like the track (and wind) got worst and worst..

For sure now, but not for a lot of the guys earlier. Seems like it's deteriorated a lot for the last 15 or 20 guys.

 

[bismojo]

table manual.... nice run hart!