[Changleen]

100% is never attainable in the real world, ever.

 

[ALEXIS_DH]

100% is never attainable in the real world, ever.

then you´ll always have to asign a non-zero value to the danger those-who-threat-but-dont-have-the-means-at-hand represent.

thus your initial point of "they are harmless since they dont have the means" is out of question.

 

[dante]

hey Opie, do you have any quotes where Hamas has as its stated mission to kill all Israelies? Not to be a dick, but that usually isn't their stated mission. It's usually focused on destroying Israel, and at the worst deporting Jews to someplace else. Not surprisingly, this is VERY similar to right-wing statements by right-wing politicians in the ruling Likud Party:

Speaking to Israeli public radio, Likud Central Committee member Uzi Cohen suggested the "voluntary transfer" of Arab Palestinians to a hypothetical Palestinian state in the northern territory of Jordan. Cohen is set to present his case for ethnically cleansing the Palestinian Territories of their Palestinian inhabitants at the presently ongoing Likud convention.

http://newstandardnews.net/content/?action=show_item&itemid=61

 

[PonySoldier]

"Hamas' official charter calls for Israel's destruction....." from CNN.... however it does state that this was not central to their recent campaign to oust Fatah as the leader of the Palestinian Authority

 

[dante]

"Hamas' official charter calls for Israel's destruction....." from CNN.... however it does state that this was not central to their recent campaign to oust Fatah as the leader of the Palestinian Authority

"Israel's destruction" is a lot different than "Killing every Israeli". Israel's Destruction refers to destroying/dismantling the Israeli State, and at the worst shipping its citizens elsewhere. Which, as I posted above, is remarkably similar to certain Israeli comments about dismantling whatever is left of Palestinian sovereignty and shipping the Palestinians elsewhere. I'm not excusing Palestinian actions or comments, but the whole concept of "Israel=good, Palestinains=bad" gets pretty tiring.

 

[dante]

I'm not sure where you see me advocating this position???

then the comment wasn't for you. it was for the people who claimed that Hamas was anathema due to its calls for Israel's destruction, and I was claiming that various Israeli politicians have basically said the same thing.

edit: whoa, where did that post go??

 

[PonySoldier]

then the comment wasn't for you. it was for the people who claimed that Hamas was anathema due to its calls for Israel's destruction, and I was claiming that various Israeli politicians have basically said the same thing.

edit: whoa, where did that post go??

I removed it for this reason...it seems you are directing this at someone other than I...

 

[Tenchiro]

Everytime I see this thread I get that god dman theme song stuck in my head... :mumble:

 

[The Amish]

Seriously, The Israelis have commited more violence against the Palestinians than vice versa. The death toll is approximately 2 to 1 in favour of the Israelis. Just because they use jets and their army to facilitate their violence because they can afford it does not make their violence any more acceptable or 'right'.

Bush is an utter hypocrite to refuse to deal with Hamas, who have won a democratic election with clear majority, bigger than his, with a larger percentage turnout to the polls than in the US.

Bush says he refuses to deal with a party with an armed wing, well, what is the difference between that and the Israel's leading party using Israel's army for it's own ends? Simply a question of names. What a bunch of Bullsh1t.

This is exactly the reason people hate that fvcking cock bandit so much, utter utter obvious hypocracy. "We want you to adopt democracy" - So they get it - "We still won't talk to you because we actually just don't like you".

Fvck you George.

You stupid Fvck! An elected terrorist is still a terrorist. Thats like saying if Osama runs for queen of the desert and wins we should forget 9/11 and start floging his shlong. How much oxy-contin do you sniff every day?

 

[Echo]

You stupid Fvck! An elected terrorist is still a terrorist. Thats like saying if Osama runs for queen of the desert and wins we should forget 9/11 and start floging his shlong. How much oxy-contin do you sniff every day?

Dude democracy is democracy. If Bush wants democracies all over the place he better be ready to accept when someone gets elected he doesn't like. Bush's "democracy" has invaded a lot more countries and killed a lot more innocent civilians than any Hamas could ever dream of. I'm not sure them winning is a good thing, but they f*cking won a straight up election, they are what the people want. At least give them a chance to f*ck up before we drop a nuke on them.

 

[Changleen]

You stupid Fvck! An elected terrorist is still a terrorist. Thats like saying if Osama runs for queen of the desert and wins we should forget 9/11 and start floging his shlong. How much oxy-contin do you sniff every day?

Define terrorism, dillhole.

 

[The Amish]

Dude democracy is democracy. If Bush wants democracies all over the place he better be ready to accept when someone gets elected he doesn't like. Bush's "democracy" has invaded a lot more countries and killed a lot more innocent civilians than any Hamas could ever dream of. I'm not sure them winning is a good thing, but they f*cking won a straight up election, they are what the people want. At least give them a chance to f*ck up before we drop a nuke on them.

your right democracy is democracy. Too bad they voted to have their ass's handed to em. I suppose you shouldnt expect any less from people who would blow up their own children just to kill a couple jews. Maybe it wont go down that way

 

[LordOpie]

I suppose you shouldnt expect any less from people who would blow up their own children just to kill a couple jews.

along that line... peace will only be possible when palestinian mothers love thier children more than hate jews.

 

[The Amish]

the smartest thing I ever heard you say. NIce!

 

[The Amish]

Define terrorism, dillhole.

Terrorism is the targeting of innocents without regaurd. When a mother and her child cant get on a bus or go to a cafe without fear of being blown up, thats terrorism. Wars neither pretty or civil and innocents will always be lost, but in principle it should always be fought between 2 armed groups not 1 armed group, a mother and her 4 yr old. Personaly I could care who controls that god for saken desert. To be honest with you if the palestinians targeted the israeli army instead of children I'd have a real hard time choosing sides

 

[Changleen]

In many cases suicide bombers have tried to target the Israeli army, however also in many cases they are shot down before they get close.

Back to what I asked, I'm glad you responded by the way, it's good when we can discuss this like adults.

Terrorism is the targeting of innocents without regaurd. When a mother and her child cant get on a bus or go to a cafe without fear of being blown up, thats terrorism.

What the Israeli army does is no different. Using battlefield missiles launched from F16s to 'execute' a single 'terrorist' in an urban area is exactly in effect what you say: "targeting of innocents without regard."

You seen the blast radius and destruction caused by these weapons as have we all. Israel still uses them for what it calls 'targeted' killings of 'individuals' in urban areas. How, in reality, is this not targeting innocents? They know exactly how powerful these weapons are.

How is bulldosing a family home with people in it not 'targeting innocents'?

Look, I'm not a fan of Islam, as you might have noticed. I'm not a fan of Christianity or Judaism either. However, I am a fan of a lot of people not dying, and I'm also a fan of big wars not starting. You, and a lot of people like you hold an utterly one sided attitude about the situation. In reality both sides are as bad as each other. The Israelis have caused a far higher number of actual deaths, so it can be logically argued they are actually 'worse'. Whatever.

We are never gong to start resolving the situation with attitudes like the one you are pedalling floating around. You need to see the truth from both sides.