Hamilton receives two-year suspension for doping violation

chicodude · Apr 18, 2005

That sucks.........

JRB · Apr 18, 2005

maybe they will let Lance take his place, since he wants to quit and all :think:

James · Apr 18, 2005

That whole "twin" defense kinda blew my mind. It's like, do they *really* expect them to fall for that? He may be innocent, I don't know, only Tyler really does, but with him testing positive for someone else's blood twice at two different races, then a teammate does too? Just too much of a coincidence for me.
Wonder what this is gonna do to Tyler's IMAX movie?
He'll appeal of course, but I doubt it'll make too much of a difference.
Really, really a bummer, I really looked up to him as a "hero of American cycling," finishing the tour with a broken collarbone, and landing on the podium, damn. Too bad he was using someone else's blood to do it...

JJames

hooples3 · Apr 18, 2005

its a shame about tyler, i still hope they find out it was all a big mistake, he seems like a down to earth kinda guy. he tells his story on his website

specialist · Apr 19, 2005

You know, they don't want the riders to have an "advantage" since drugs really "increase" your performance... I don't know how people ride high, I can't even bunny hop under the influence of anything.

reflux · Apr 19, 2005

In addition, I think the guy should be tarred and feathered. No mercy or sympathy from me...

blue · Apr 19, 2005

reflux said:
In addition, I think the guy should be tarred and feathered. No mercy or sympathy from me...

Oh come on, are you serious?

I'm not really sure if he was doping or not, but it's beyond a reasonable doubt as to whether he was doping or not. There is way too much evidence in his favor for him to have an arbitrary suspension.

Had he been in the American judicial system, he probably would've been "acquitted", or at the bare minimum had a much more reduced sentence. There simply is not enough evidence there to clearly state that he was doping.

H8R · Apr 19, 2005

specialist said:
I don't know how people ride high, I can't even bunny hop under the influence of anything.

Uh..you're confusing the issue a bit.

I'll assume you aren't aware that "doping" means adding blood to your bloodstream to increase the blood volume, so you can process more oxygen.

I don't think it make you high.

However, many old skool pro cyclists did heavy drugs, racing on cocaine, amphetamines, etc. I'm sure some of the tour and olympic greats of the past came across the finish line on rails.

Silver · Apr 19, 2005

I'm starting to lean to the "They are all dopers" side, but at the same time, something really bugs me about the way Dick Pound and WADA do business...

JoeRay · Apr 19, 2005

H8R said:
However, many old skool pro cyclists did heavy drugs, racing on cocaine, amphetamines, etc. I'm sure some of the tour and olympic greats of the past came across the finish line on rails.

Old school, try still do. A person who shall remain anonymous for this threads purposes, who used to frequent the shop I worked at was into extreme endurance riding. The kind of races you go for 20 to 22 hours a day for days at a time.

Anyhows becasue this person had a team member who is a doctor, the whole team was into ephedrine in a BIG way.

This bloke bragged to us about doing around the 400k mark in one day on it and how half way through down the quiet roads was going for the full white line fever and chasing along the center divider.

This bloke is also the only person I know of to have ever hit a knagaroo on a bicycle.

If a they be doin it it goes all the ways up I reckon. Makes you fast and peppy but certainly a quick way to end up dead. :dead:

James · Apr 19, 2005

H8R said:
Uh..you're confusing the issue a bit.

I'll assume you aren't aware that "doping" means adding blood to your bloodstream to increase the blood volume, so you can process more oxygen.

I don't think it make you high.

However, many old skool pro cyclists did heavy drugs, racing on cocaine, amphetamines, etc. I'm sure some of the tour and olympic greats of the past came across the finish line on rails.

Or EPO, the drug of choice for most. It allows the blood to carry more oxygen in the form of more red blood cells. It does make the blood pretty damn thick, which is why there is a 50% limit on hermaticrit levels to race, above that, you're banned, below, you're not.
An Amgen (makers/inventors of the drug) really haven't wanted to make any sort of test for it, making it really, really hard to detect. Some people just have naturally high hermaticrit levels, though usually not above 50%...
A real shame...almost like there should be an "unlimited" class...

JJames

Toshi · Apr 19, 2005

i think typical "normal" hematocrit is 36%?

Damn True · Apr 19, 2005

Silver said:
I'm starting to lean to the "They are all dopers" side, but at the same time, something really bugs me about the way Dick Pound and WADA do business...

I'm with you here. Is this the same group that sacked that female sprinter with only an allegation that she used. No test results at all?

Dartman · Apr 19, 2005

That's it! I'm not watching any more road racing on TV! :eviltongu

Mike

Westy · Apr 19, 2005

They are all on the dope.

Wumpus · Apr 19, 2005

Toshi said:
i think typical "normal" hematocrit is 36%?

Hematocrit (varies with altitude):

Male: 40.7-50.3%
Female: 36.1-44.3%

clancy98 · Apr 19, 2005

Just James said:
almost like there should be an "unlimited" class...
JJames

Weekend update correspondent Kevin Nealon said:
...Dennis, getting ready to lift now is Sergei Akmudov of the Soviet Union. His trainer has told me that he's taken antibolic steroids, Novacaine, Nyquil, Darvon, and some sort of fish paralyzer. Also, I believe he's had a few cocktails within the last hour or so. All of this is, of course, perfectly legal at the All-Drug Olympics, in fact it's encouraged. Akmudov is getting set now, he's going for a cleaning jerk of over 1500 pounds, which would triple the existing world record. That's an awful lot of weight, Dennis, and here he goes...

Oh my god! He pulled his arms off! He's pulled his arms off, that's gotta be disappointing to the big Russian

=[Stinky]= · Apr 19, 2005

Think tyler will; race in 2 years? He is getting a little old. Hes Lance's age I believe

Morryjg · Apr 19, 2005

=[Stinky]= said:
Think tyler will; race in 2 years? He is getting a little old. Hes Lance's age I believe

He'll be 36 when he gets off of suspension. :angry:

golgiaparatus · Apr 19, 2005

Morryjg said:
He'll be 36 when he gets off of suspension. :angry:

He should freeze himself for 2 years

Wumpus · Apr 19, 2005

=[Stinky]= said:
Think tyler will; race in 2 years? He is getting a little old. Hes Lance's age I believe

He'll have plenty of time to save up some of his own blood.

indieboy · Apr 19, 2005

Westy said:
They are all on the dope.

how long ago was it that you called me cynical for this statement?

Westy · Apr 19, 2005

indieboy said:
how long ago was it that you called me cynical for this statement?

Did I? guess I am cynical now.

Over the past year or so I have met a few former roadies who raced in Europe and heard their stories. Ran a few internet searches to back up their claims. Spoke to a former Div 1 College QB. If you ask me any sport where there is potential for a big paycheck will have a high % of dopers.

Silver · Apr 19, 2005

Stuff like this from WADA worries me:

"There can be no risk of a false positive. In fact in the 48 subjects reported in the literature there was 100% accuracy. There is no risk of a false positive and no need to do so called validation studies." (Page 11/25 of the arbitration report)

That's a catch-22 if I've ever seen one.

Jeremy R · Apr 19, 2005

Let's see:
Tyler's A-sample at the Olympics showed he had somebody else's blood in his system (the b-sample was not usable.)
A few weeks later at the Vuelta, both his A and B sample showed someone
else's blood in his system.
This was in September.
Documents were then released that Phonak had been warned back in May at a race that Tyler's hemocrit level was 49.7% when in the past it had been 38%. Jeez.
Tyler's teammate at Phonak, Perez, also tested positive for having somebody else's blood in their system, and they are the only two riders who have ever tested positive for this.
So, what was his defense?
The twin theory?
That before he was born he had a twin that put his blood genes in Tyler's pool before he checked out. Riiight. And, I guess Perez, had the same thing happen to him too. Damn twins.
I liked Tyler as much as the next guy, but he's guilty.

Silver · Apr 19, 2005

I'm starting to think this is like OJ. A guilty man may be getting framed. Tyler's got something weird going on that he hasn't explained, but WADA is refusing to look at their own test in a sceptical light.

I'm more worried about the cavalier attitude of WADA than anything else. If they don't need to establish false positive rates for this test, I'd be willing to bet they don't do it for future tests either.

Wumpus · Apr 19, 2005

Jeremy R said:
Tyler's teammate at Phonak, Perez, also tested positive for having somebody else's blood in their system, and they are the only two riders who have ever tested positive for this.

Makes me think that they ended up with each others blood.

schweino1 · Apr 19, 2005

i knew it...

roadies are a bunch of DOPERS.....

schweino1 · Apr 19, 2005

i have a "below healthy" hematocrit count....

got to see a doctor soon.....

peter6061 · Apr 19, 2005

I've been holding out hope, but unless something happens to clear his name pretty soon, that Framed Autographed VeloNews from a few years back will be coming down from the wall. Sad news if it's really true.

Optimist 5% --- Pessimist 95%

schweino1 · Apr 19, 2005

and also... what a moroon....

why using someone else's blood when you can stack a very good ammount of your own...

how much does it take to recover, lets say, one full unit of blood?

schweino1 · Apr 19, 2005

by unit i mean, one of the baggies they use when you go and donate blood...

Wumpus · Apr 19, 2005

schweino1 said:
how much does it take to recover, lets say, one full unit of blood?

Plasma volumes will return to normal in around 24 hours, while red blood cells are replaced by bone marrow into the circulatory system within about 3-5 weeks, and lost iron replaced over 6-8 weeks.

PsychO!1 · Apr 19, 2005

Removing a pint of your own blood in the middle of a major tour would be detramentle. And I don't beleive the blood can be stored for very long. That is why they use someone elses blood. (that's how i understand it from various articles)

indieboy · Apr 19, 2005

Westy said:
Did I? guess I am cynical now.

Over the past year or so I have met a few former roadies who raced in Europe and heard their stories. Ran a few internet searches to back up their claims. Spoke to a former Div 1 College QB. If you ask me any sport where there is potential for a big paycheck will have a high % of dopers.

you and the hidester used to call me out on it telling me i was over cynical and to harsh. that there was no way those guys were on the stuff.......well yeah......

Westy · Apr 19, 2005

indieboy said:
you and the hidester used to call me out on it telling me i was over cynical and to harsh. that there was no way those guys were on the stuff.......well yeah......

I honestly don't remember doing so, mayby talking about XC'ers, but I have seen weird enought things that I'd say a good percentage of the top XC folks are cheating too.

indieboy · Apr 19, 2005

lyke, duh!

James · Apr 19, 2005

clancy98 said:

The Drug Olympics lives on!

Hamilton receives two-year suspension for doping violation

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