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Hardtail Frame

FlipSide

Turbo Monkey
Sep 24, 2001
1,393
837
Kona Honzo is another interesting one, as noted by @FlipSide . Just no frame only option, it seems.
I checked and the framesets are not on the website anymore. That sucks if they offer them complete-only. I bought my 2022 ESD frame-only. The list price was 700$CDN.

I suggest you contact a dealer to be sure about availability.
 

canadmos

Cake Tease
May 29, 2011
20,842
19,942
Canaderp
I checked and the framesets are not on the website anymore. That sucks if they offer them complete-only. I bought my 2022 ESD frame-only. The list price was 700$CDN.

I suggest you contact a dealer to be sure about availability.
I found one used that looks pretty much new...

I could probably swing both these used frames for the cost of one new one. :brows:
 

konifere

Monkey
Dec 20, 2021
566
703
FWIW, I built up a NS Eccentric 29 this spring when CRC had them for 330$ cdn shipped. I always had my "spare" ('10 26" Rocky Mtn Reaper with shit fork and leftover parts) that I liked to ride on mellower trails (I also have a 160mm enduro bike for everything else), but I thought I could build up a newer bike that fit better.

Early in the season, I thought the frame was pretty harsh and I did not remember a hardtail being that harsh from last season, but after a few rides, I lowered my tire pressures a bit and got used to it. Now riding the same trails I don't feel it like that anymore at all.

Honestly, I have not even bother finishing rebuilding my full suspension bike this year since I'm having so much fun on this bike, and not having pivots and a shock to maintain helps save a bit of time too. I just put it away dirty and hose it whenever it gets too filthy.

My goal was to build it on the cheap, but if I wanted to invest more, I'd definitely get a steel frame. I saw a guy riding a Honzo at the rising spot that I go often and it looks sick (might me @FlipSide !).
 

FlipSide

Turbo Monkey
Sep 24, 2001
1,393
837
My goal was to build it on the cheap, but if I wanted to invest more, I'd definitely get a steel frame. I saw a guy riding a Honzo at the rising spot that I go often and it looks sick (might me @FlipSide !).
If it was at E47, there are good chances it was me. :)
 

canadmos

Cake Tease
May 29, 2011
20,842
19,942
Canaderp
Off topic, but man there seems to be a big advertisement spend going on right now for the Quebec City trail centers.

Aren't they crowded enough? :panic: :brow:

I guess all those trail passes have to pay for something eh* :rofl:



*jokes. I know the trails takes a lot of effort to maintain and whatnot and to stock clubhouses. Never a bad time there.
 

konifere

Monkey
Dec 20, 2021
566
703
I don't know how many more people they need to stay afloat, but since covid hit, I mostly go elsewhere because I find most trail centres too crowded.
 

canadmos

Cake Tease
May 29, 2011
20,842
19,942
Canaderp
I haven't really gone through and counted, but two fellows I follow on YouTubez have what appears to be a full paid trip to QC and access to 5 different trail centers. The hotel they're in for a few of the nights in the capital looks pretty posh as well.

I mean I'm not hating....okay yeah I am, I want a free trip too. All the power to them :rofl:

Just seems crazy to go big on advertising, when the spots are already big enough. I could see maybe advertising MSA because of the gondola crap and Le Massif because it's so new...but the others? Meh...

[Edit] I went to VBN back in 2016 or something on a whim, on the way home from a wedding in Nova Scotia. It was cool back then, I rolled in and no one was there at Shanahan. They didn't even have that huge new parking lot.

Compared to a few summers ago when doing the same trails and they were filled with people. You were either passing someone or being passed.
 

konifere

Monkey
Dec 20, 2021
566
703
Went to ride Wolverine on my hardtail today at SDM. I got there at 11am and the lady directing people in the parking lot told me « we only have one parking spot left and it’s besides that blue jeep ». Curiously, there was almost no one riding that trail Kinda bumpy with a hardtail!

what color did you get @canadmos ?
 

konifere

Monkey
Dec 20, 2021
566
703
I had not been to SDM in two years, it's crazy to see how much they have invested in the restaurant/ticket centre and asphalt pump track. That money could have been invested in the trails instead... don't get me started I said!!
 

canadmos

Cake Tease
May 29, 2011
20,842
19,942
Canaderp
Yeah I picked up the slightly used black RS-291. Haggled a little off what he was asking. Comes with full warranty, new canecreek headset and everything so pretty good deal.

It's too bad he didn't have any of the purple frames, they look nice.

I might still try to after the Kona Honzo ESD frame or maybe even purchase a Norco Torrent. Just in case this thing is too radical.
 

canadmos

Cake Tease
May 29, 2011
20,842
19,942
Canaderp
We might be waiting for a while, the only part I have for it is a derailleur cable. :rofl:

I need to be patient and buy stuff as it pops up on sale.

Wheels will probably cost the most.
 

Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
54,687
20,514
Sleazattle
Good geo, just wondering how it will fare on tamer smoother trails. Waiting for a full report @canadmos . :rockout:
In the winter I ride my similar Rootdown on tame trails and it does just fine. Do have to focus a little more on weighting the front end in corners. If this thing only seems tamer trails I would run a longer stem or a shorter fork to move weight forward a little bit.
 

konifere

Monkey
Dec 20, 2021
566
703
If anything, I'd prefer a slacker HA on a hardtail to compensate for the steepening at sag vs a full-suspension bike that sags more evenly. My 65* NS Eccentric is fine, but on steeper stuff, I woulnd't mind starting at 63*. Anyway, we always get used to bikes and adapt after a few rides :dirol:

@canadmos There were some great deals on DT wheels at CRC, I don't know if they have any stock left but it could be worth checking.
 

canadmos

Cake Tease
May 29, 2011
20,842
19,942
Canaderp
If anything, I'd prefer a slacker HA on a hardtail to compensate for the steepening at sag vs a full-suspension bike that sags more evenly. My 65* NS Eccentric is fine, but on steeper stuff, I woulnd't mind starting at 63*. Anyway, we always get used to bikes and adapt after a few rides :dirol:

@canadmos There were some great deals on DT wheels at CRC, I don't know if they have any stock left but it could be worth checking.
I saw all those last night while browsing. There were some good deals in there! But looks all sold out.

I'll probably end up buy a set from We Are One, they aren't too expensive. Might have an in on discount as well, but even without that, not too bad of a cost.
 

6thElement

Schrodinger's Immigrant
Jul 29, 2008
16,170
13,445
I saw all those last night while browsing. There were some good deals in there! But looks all sold out.

I'll probably end up buy a set from We Are One, they aren't too expensive. Might have an in on discount as well, but even without that, not too bad of a cost.
Check PB for some take offs if this is your second bike.
 

FlipSide

Turbo Monkey
Sep 24, 2001
1,393
837
Sweet! Can't wait to see your build!

Regarding the Youtubers invited "todo incluido" to report on the Québec City trail centers, it kind of surprised me as well, but I think it will pay off, as I am sure it will generate significant tourism here in 2024.

I ride here all the time in the various trail centers of the region and I have to say it's not that bad in the trails. The only irritating parts is the parking that are often full, but I have to say I have not once found myself in overcrowded trails.

Riding mainly blacks and double-blacks certainly helps. Avoiding green trails on saturday morning too.
 

konifere

Monkey
Dec 20, 2021
566
703
Yeah I was kind of expecting to be put off when I visited SDM on a saturday morning, but even if the parking lot was full, we only saw 4 people in Wolverine and just a few more that were waiting at trail junctions. I guess it was more crowded on the other summit, but I was pleasantly surprised.

Altough I don't know why they need more tourists if the parking lots are always full at SDM, and the overcrowding causes city issues at E47. Maybe they expect a downfall in visitors in the next years, who knows.

I remember visiting SDM 10 years ago and always parking besides the main building with the seasons' pass at like 65$. Times are changing.
 

Jozz

Joe Dalton
Apr 18, 2002
5,901
7,453
SADL
Sweet! Can't wait to see your build!

Regarding the Youtubers invited "todo incluido" to report on the Québec City trail centers, it kind of surprised me as well, but I think it will pay off, as I am sure it will generate significant tourism here in 2024.

I ride here all the time in the various trail centers of the region and I have to say it's not that bad in the trails. The only irritating parts is the parking that are often full, but I have to say I have not once found myself in overcrowded trails.

Riding mainly blacks and double-blacks certainly helps. Avoiding green trails on saturday morning too.
You still ride MSA mostly?
 

FlipSide

Turbo Monkey
Sep 24, 2001
1,393
837
You still ride MSA mostly?
I was away for most of the summer this year, so I decised not buy the MSA pass. I have SDM, E47 and Castor...so I am busy enough. :)

Felt weird after 21 consecutive years with the MSA season pass, but I don't regret it one bit. MSA is a lot of fun and I love this place, but climbing more on my bike is good for me and being away from home 4-5 hours for a ride instead of the whole day is more compatible with family stuff.

I am actually considering not taking my MSA pass next year either. I have plans for building a killer trailbike. If I pull the trigger, I suspect I will not want to go DHing on my big bike that often.
 

konifere

Monkey
Dec 20, 2021
566
703
@FlipSide I was thinking of getting my "enduro" pass at MSA next year and will visit a few times this summer to make up my mind (either MSA or SDM). I'm climbing with my bike and I don't mind riding up the access road, but which trails would you recommend ? I've done quite a few on the right of the mountain near the campground area, but I haven't gone up in the mountain much last year.
 

FlipSide

Turbo Monkey
Sep 24, 2001
1,393
837
@FlipSide I was thinking of getting my "enduro" pass at MSA next year and will visit a few times this summer to make up my mind (either MSA or SDM). I'm climbing with my bike and I don't mind riding up the access road, but which trails would you recommend ? I've done quite a few on the right of the mountain near the campground area, but I haven't gone up in the mountain much last year.
Quite frankly, I do not recommend the Enduro Pass. To me, it's kind of half-assing the job. If you get there, I think you're better off getting the real deal with the full lift-access pass. This is just me though.

For the past 10 years, I mainly rode "Enduro-style" trails at MSA. The best Enduro loops from the top are either:

- Grisante - Marais du Nord - Hydro Line - Dryade. From there, you can climb the Riverside and get back down on Longue-Rive if you want. Then the 2 sections of PaLaStHi to get back to the camping area. From there, you do whatever trail combinaisons that will get you back to the base. Such a loop will be between 15 and 30km depending on your trail selection and how XC you want it to be.
- Grisante or Baptême - Échappée that will get you to Boute-à-Boute. From there, either Avenue-Royale or Arête or Adorila-Peace and Destroy, then Demi-Lune
- Another alternative is the same as above, but get down the Érablière instead of Échappée.

Basically, my best days at MSA consists of 1 or 2 of these loop with an open-face helmet and knee pads...then I put on the full face and elbow pads for a few DH laps consisting of a mix of Grisante, Baptême, Vietnam, Érablière, Tordue, 1837, etc. Typically I do 4-5 runs, for a total of 40-55 km (excluding the lift). After such a day, you should be satisfied and possibly ready for a nap. :)

Let me know if you have questions.
 
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konifere

Monkey
Dec 20, 2021
566
703
Haha! Thanks that's awesome! Of your list I only knew boutaboutte which I rode with a friend last summer. Not knowing the area and her being relatively new to MTB, we mainly explored the Sentier du moulin (MSA's) / Cairn / Germaine , Baptême and that area.

The last time I went up the hill there was 4-5 years ago and I did one run of 1837/Chômeuse / Inuk... that was a bit too much tech for the 120mm trail bike I had (or my capacities haha).

I'll check the map and will try your suggestions shortly. Thanks again!
 

FlipSide

Turbo Monkey
Sep 24, 2001
1,393
837
Haha! Thanks that's awesome! Of your list I only knew boutaboutte which I rode with a friend last summer. Not knowing the area and her being relatively new to MTB, we mainly explored the Sentier du moulin (MSA's) / Cairn / Germaine , Baptême and that area.

The last time I went up the hill there was 4-5 years ago and I did one run of 1837/Chômeuse / Inuk... that was a bit too much tech for the 120mm trail bike I had (or my capacities haha).

I'll check the map and will try your suggestions shortly. Thanks again!
Yeah, 1837/Chômeuse/Inuk are quite gnarly. Upper 1837 is really nice and flowy, but the lower part and the others can rapidly become a bit too much on a trail bike. They can be fun as a challenge or if you are very skilled, but I personally prefer the high speed of Grisante/Baptême/Vietnam, the technical and flowy mix of a natural trail like l'Érablière and the manageable gnar of the Tordue. It will take you a few laps before you know the lines and "understand" the Tordue, but once you are there and can link all the lines no-dab top-to-bottom, it is quite an experience.

With SDM being so awesome, I tend to get my fix of steep and technical riding there and get my fix of high-speed and exhausting top-to-bottom runs at MSA. That's actually another aspect of MSA I particularly enjoy: The runs are so long from top to bottom, energy management becomes important and I find this super fun.
 
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konifere

Monkey
Dec 20, 2021
566
703
That's a great way to see it! The trails at SDM are quite awesome indeed and very varied. I had my pass in '18 and '19 and loved it, but since then they have built so many new great trails that I might get it next year there. I'll go explore MSA a bit more though as it seems like I haven't seen the best yet!

I think I remember trying Grisante (could have been something else, but I think I remember the name from back then) in 1999 or 2000, back when I was starting to race DH and lived nowhere close to a mountain. It was the first more "accessible" DH trail I had ridden and I loved it. It seems like they gave it a god facelift last summer, I might go try that this weekend. Cheers!
 

FlipSide

Turbo Monkey
Sep 24, 2001
1,393
837
That's a great way to see it! The trails at SDM are quite awesome indeed and very varied. I had my pass in '18 and '19 and loved it, but since then they have built so many new great trails that I might get it next year there. I'll go explore MSA a bit more though as it seems like I haven't seen the best yet!

I think I remember trying Grisante (could have been something else, but I think I remember the name from back then) in 1999 or 2000, back when I was starting to race DH and lived nowhere close to a mountain. It was the first more "accessible" DH trail I had ridden and I loved it. It seems like they gave it a god facelift last summer, I might go try that this weekend. Cheers!
Yeah, it is the same trail that has been there forever. I think it was called l'Échappé from the top of the mountain initially and the Grisante was the lower part. Now it is the Grisante all the way. It got a face lift like 15 years ago and 2-3 years ago. Many people complain about how easy it is now that it has been groomed. I personally love it, but you need to be pinned. Cruising down the Grisante is indeed a bit boring unless you are with kids or beginners, but a full run wide open as fast as you can is seriously a lot of fun.