Right....so I could just as aptly quote fatalities from heart disease?
Has America 'lost' in Iraq?
- Thread starter Changleen
- Start date
Some Americans died in a car accident on route 490 last week. Better start bombing.
The tie is Saddam's decade-long contacts with al-Qaida operatives, although there was no formal Al_Q presence in Iraq prior to the Collition Invasion.
But N8, the United States has just as many, if not more ties with Al Q operatives. The US trained and financed them for years...so there's more faulty logic. I'm sorry, at some point people just have to accept that they're separate issues.
Iraq has a really good chance of making it.
New constitution, elected government, trained security forces, and moderinzed infrastructure all contribute to a 'better than before' Iraq. And given the amount of oil in the country, they should be able to fully realize a better way of life in about 10 years hence.
New constitution, elected government, trained security forces, and moderinzed infrastructure all contribute to a 'better than before' Iraq. And given the amount of oil in the country, they should be able to fully realize a better way of life in about 10 years hence.
Sorry, I don't buy that.
I'm willing to bet Bush would have found an excuse to get into Iraq one way or another. Iraq is not, and never has been about Al Queda.
Ridemonkey said:
I think you are much mistaken. If 9/11 would have never happend, Saddam would still be in power and moving to develope nukes. Sure, we'd lob an occational cruise missile at his installations every now and again, but would not have invaded.
Ridemonkey said:
Nope if they would just come clean on it being about tidying up Shrub1 and Dickheads failure to finish the job in '91 I would be far less angry about their venal attempts to claim it as Al Queda or the "War on Terror"
You can't say how things are going there. Most of the media (less fox) in a way wants bush to look bad. The only people who realy know how things are going in iraq are the iraqies and our troops.Echo said:I suppose I should get in touch with reality and start parroting how well things are going over there, and how the insurgency is about to be defeated
I talked with a medic several months ago and according to him the majority of gun shot wounds were self inflicted. The kids are terrified and do not want to be there where anyone is a suspect. On the flip side the gung-ho Joes don't want them at their backs. He reported the first few but then realized he's ruining some poor kids life with a dishonorable discharge so he quit reporting them as self-inflicted because he would be screwing hundreds of kids. The medic also said he was mixing pharmaceutical "cocktails" (kinda like speed mixed with meth) so the overworked troops could stay on their toes for over 24 hrs at a time. Nothing like overworked teenagers with itchy trigger fingers on dope! Go Joe!
I think speed an meth are the same thingBullitrider said:
ohio said:
For the most part they don't. It's a fact the vast majority of reporters in Iraq never venture out the the "Green Zone"...
Wasn't that my point?H8R said:
H8R said:
True, but I have numerous friends and fellow collogues who are either over there, or have been there, who do know what's up.
Did you know Cheney had energy meetings pre 9/11 which was kept private? I always wondered what was the topics of discussion...Changleen said:
http://www.boston.com/news/nation/washington/articles/2005/05/11/court_backs_cheney_on_energy_meetings/?rss_id=Boston+Globe+--+National+News
Ya sure. Overlook the daily carbombings, destroyed infrastructure, lack of power or water, proliferance of weapons, attacks on civilians, threats and shroud of fear the people live under and you're all set.N8 said:
H8R said:Wait....Are we talking about Oakland CA or Iraq?
Must be Oakland... Iraq isn't that bad off..!
U.S. Lowers Sights On What Can Be Achieved in Iraq
Administration Is Shedding 'Unreality' That Dominated Invasion, Official Says
By Robin Wright and Ellen Knickmeyer
Washington Post Staff Writers
Sunday, August 14, 2005; Page A01
The Bush administration is significantly lowering expectations of what can be achieved in Iraq, recognizing that the United States will have to settle for far less progress than originally envisioned during the transition due to end in four months, according to U.S. officials in Washington and Baghdad.
More:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/08/13/AR2005081300853.html
Administration Is Shedding 'Unreality' That Dominated Invasion, Official Says
By Robin Wright and Ellen Knickmeyer
Washington Post Staff Writers
Sunday, August 14, 2005; Page A01
The Bush administration is significantly lowering expectations of what can be achieved in Iraq, recognizing that the United States will have to settle for far less progress than originally envisioned during the transition due to end in four months, according to U.S. officials in Washington and Baghdad.
More:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/08/13/AR2005081300853.html
Because it's all about timing. Investing $10,000 at the peak in 1929 would have meant that after the crash (assuming you invested in an index fund, which wasn't around, but let's pretend it was) you had lost 83% of the value. (If you had stayed in to 1932, where the bottom was)gschuette said:
So, with your $1700 left over, assuming no taxes, no inflation, and an annualized return of 10%, you'd need to wait more than 17 years to recover your original investment. That's merely to break even. And it was worse, because there was another loss in value in 1937, I think, that would make the above rosy assumptions worse.
So, to sum up, timing is important. And we just took out a big loan and invested heavily in the market on October 23, 1929. Oops.
gschuette said:
We did invade Iraq, my wife spent a fair amount of time in Iraq with 1st AD. Perhaps it is you who should read a bit more on history..The Shrub1 administration made some gross errors in judgement in thinking that the Iraqi populace was going to overthrow the Saddam regime. Most soldiers involved in the Gulf War that I have interacted with wanted to go to Bahgdad and close the deal then. I view the current Iraqi issue to simply be an extension of the 1st failed attempt.
PonySoldier said:We did invade Iraq, my wife spent a fair amount of time in Iraq with 1st AD. Perhaps it is you who should read a bit more on history..The Shrub1 administration made some gross errors in judgement in thinking that the Iraqi populace was going to overthrow the Saddam regime. Most soldiers involved in the Gulf War that I have interacted with wanted to go to Bahgdad and close the deal then. I view the current Iraqi issue to simply be an extension of the 1st failed attempt.
Agreed, Bush 1 should have ignored the cries of the left and driven straight to Bahgdad, imprisoned Saddam and set up a new governemt.
At least we'd have a 10+ year start on where we are now.
We also have taken an additional 1800+ casualties because of this..I believe some of the cries to display leniency came from upper echelon Military People concerned that the coalition would splinter if the Westerners would drive on Bahgdad and overthrow an Arab government..N8 said:
You called me a liberal too without knowing a damn thing about me. Is everyone who isn't a warmongering Bush ass-kisser a liberal to you?gschuette said:
PonySoldier said:
I think it would have held together if it had come to it.
E
enkidu
Guest
Or even better had US CIA not trained and assisted 22 years old Saddam Husein in the attempt to assassinate then Iraqi Prime Minister Abd Qasim in 1959.N8 said:
And Donald Rumsfield not fly to Baghdad to assure Saddam of continued US support in the Iranian war in December, 1983.
Yes, it would have been much better for the Iraqis above all and for the over 1850 dead American soldiers.
In hindsight it shouldn't have been a concern, Bahgdad was 90 miles away and the Iraqi military was done and the populace was far more sympathetic to having westerners on Iraqi soil then they currently are..The arab world in general would have been far more accepting then than now..N8 said:
PonySoldier said:
Yep...
Here's a really good article. You talk about hypocrisy, 7 years before we started this war in Iraq, Cheney, Powell, and Bush Sr. all said it would be a disaster and turn the entire Arab world against us. Looks like they were right. Guess Jr. had to much pride to listen to his daddy and wanted to prove him wrong.
http://www.makethemaccountable.com/leopold/030307_BushSrSaidIn1996.htm
http://www.makethemaccountable.com/leopold/030307_BushSrSaidIn1996.htm