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Has anyone ridden any of the Trick Stuff brakes?

C

csermonet

Monkey
Mar 5, 2010
942
128
They make some really wicked looking parts, so I was wondering how their brakes performed. Particularly the Cleg 4 and Direttissima. RC at Pinkbike seemed to like them. Here is a pic of the Cleg 4


Here is the Direttissima. Supposedly Thomas Genon was using them for a bit, at Rampage included. Anyone heard anything about these? I think these look really awesome
 
Mo(n)arch

Mo(n)arch

Turbo Monkey
Dec 27, 2010
4,459
1,457
Italy/south Tyrol
RC? Richard Cunningham? The dude that is in the same boat as the Woo?

Quote:
203-millimeter front brake rotor: Stronger braking is less important on a trail bike than drag-free braking. I bent the Shimano 203-millimeter rotor a number of times during testing from simple rock strikes. It has occurred with other brands as well. 180s please.
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Not sure if I would run the same brakes as this guy.
 
iRider

iRider

Turbo Monkey
Apr 5, 2008
5,686
3,143
To lessen your pain, just buy that new Ellsworth, switch the tires to your beloved Nevegals, angle grind the fork down to 180 mm and mount some of these dentist brakes. ;) :D
 
C

csermonet

Monkey
Mar 5, 2010
942
128
anyone here have any experience with these yet? Pinkbike seemed to like them and the UR team seems to be getting on well with them. I'm completely happy with my brakes now, and these are ungodly expensive, I'm just curious as to what the idiots here think of them.
 
Sandro

Sandro

Terrified of Cucumbers
Nov 12, 2006
3,228
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The old world
csermonet said:
anyone here have any experience with these yet? Pinkbike seemed to like them and the UR team seems to be getting on well with them. I'm completely happy with my brakes now, and these are ungodly expensive, I'm just curious as to what the idiots here think of them.
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Udi said:
If you want to check out something super wanky (of course you do) which actually has performance to back up the ludicrous pricing - unlike what's available in suspension - check out the trickstuff direttissima. Best brake I've ridden, both for outright power and power:weight ratio. I have no idea on long term reliability, and pricing is as they say "if you have to ask".
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Udi

Udi

RM Chief Ornithologist
Mar 14, 2005
4,918
1,213
Here's what I know about the Direttissima:
  • They are very expensive at 749E a set - worth mentioning first because at this price they won't be for everyone. You can subtract VAT if you live outside the EU but postage will probably make things close enough to equal anyway.
  • They weigh 235g/end (front, 700mm regular plastic hose) which makes them substantially lighter than the Saint M820 (~300g), Hope V4 (~300g), Magura MT7 (doesn't count because the lever is made of papier mache), etc. It is slightly heavier than the Formula RO-Racing (200g) but that is an exceptionally light brake that is entirely cold forged; and could also do with bigger pads for 650b or greater (+ associated heat generation) - so it (and the Cura) are debatable as full-on DH brakes for this reason.
  • They use the same pads as the Hope E4 and M4, and the same as the ancient Shimano XT 4-pot (M755). I think that's a bit stupid personally, they should have made it the same as a *current* Shimano brake to allow finned pads (and a guarantee of pad availability), but honestly you can get these pads in most places so it's good enough. For reference, the Hope E4 "red" pads are the Galfer Red which is an excellent semi-sintered pad so there's already at least one good option easily available from CRC. With the Hope E4 gaining popularity there will be plenty of other options too. This pad has generous surface area which I support.
  • The original version used DOT fluid but the production versions now use Mineral Oil. They make their own fluid called "bionol" but the brake is compatible with Shimano Mineral oil. DOT is the superior fluid (primarily because EPDM seals have slightly superior properties to NBR seals used with oil) but I think Trickstuff may have changed to be in line with the majority of players and environmental concerns. Their website actually explained why DOT fluid was superior (correctly) which to me said something about the company's knowledge but that tidbit may be gone now.
  • The MC assembly uses four ball bearings. Two bearings are used on the lever blade itself, and two bearings are used for the cam. Anyone who despises cam play will be thrilled, most people probably don't care.
  • To my knowledge (please correct me if I'm wrong), the entire brake is machined from 7075, hence looking a bit flimsy, but probably more durable than average. The MC body also uses a "bracing foot" which contacts the bar further out, essentially spreading loading (under lever compression) wider without needing the weight of a wider clamp, which I think is a cool idea especially for carbon bars. A big cause of carbon bar failure is the localised loading (and resultant stress risers) the lever clamp creates when the lever is actuated. Also, most brakes use shitty cast lever bodies (rarely anodised internally = wear, often with a plastic master cylinder piston = various problems, and obviously more prone to breakage in crashes), with Formula and Hope being the only notable exceptions. Machining and anodizing both parts results in a brake that doesn't have to go in the bin after a season or two, so let's hope that Trickstuff provides another long-term player here - the ingredients are all present.
  • Paul Aston had two main problems with the brake itself in his review, one was a bad bladder (which they've apparently updated since, so hopefully no longer a problem), and the other was very small hardware on the lever clamp (which is stupid, and hasn't been addressed). There was also a mention of using lots of different hardware all over the brake, which is also stupid and annoying, and hasn't been addressed. While not really acceptable at this pricepoint, I think these issues are minor compared to issues with other current brakes. I believe he also had a rotor failure which is obviously completely unacceptable but this was also updated apparently, and at least personally I don't care because I have no intention of purchasing their no doubt overpriced rotors anyway.
  • From my experience riding, they are hands-down the most powerful brake I've ridden on 650b wheels (keeping in mind the 4% braking force deficit over 26" wheels, which I find immediately noticeable). The lever ergonomics felt great, the blade felt great, and the throw was not excessively long. Definitely not as short as Formula, but slightly shorter than Shimano, Hope, Magura and SRAM. The lever action is light and smooth, again probably comparable to the new Formula Racing lever, but noticeably lighter action than Shimano, Hope, Magura, and SRAM. I think it is also more likely to stay this way due to the quad bearing setup, an impressive inclusion at the total weight.
  • I cannot comment on long term durability or performance, I don't own the brake. I see potential in them that I don't see in any alternatives, so while no doubt it's a gamble, it's difficult to scoff at the price - especially given the sheer braking force, materials/parts used, and resultant weight.






 
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Jm_

Jm_

sled dog's bollocks
Jan 14, 2002
20,065
10,630
AK
From the pinkbike review, I also think it looks pretty bad to have these issues on a tested brake, usually on a test the company wants to put it's best-foot-forward:

Issues
The original pair of Direttisma's I received last June did spring an oil leak at the top cap. Trickstuff said that this brake was an earlier model that didn't use thread lock on the top cap screws, which led to it coming loose. I lost some oil, and in the process of re-tightening, the seal got damaged. I returned the brakes, and they were upgraded to the thread locked screws and a new version of the seal – the Direttissimas were trouble free afterward. All production brakes have since been upgraded.

I also broke a 180mm Daechle disc; luckily I spotted this before anything untoward happened. Trickstuff says they did have some problems with earlier Daechle discs when riders performed trials-like maneuvers and the rotors were stressed in a rearwards direction. These rotors have all been replaced by a new version with improved strength.

Tiny hex bolts. The 2.5mm bolt for the lever clamp is too small, and the brakes wouldn't tighten enough for a solid fix on the handlebar without risk of rounding off the bolt (this is more of a problem with carbon bars). In the end, I could the tighten the bolt enough to make the levers stay put during riding, but it was still possible to move them easily by hand. I'm sure there are reasons for tiny bolts, like stopping people overtightening things, saving weight and letting the levers move in the event of a crash, but fiddly is frustrating. I had a similar gripe with the Trickstuff Deckele 'star nut.' In total, the brakes need 1.5, 2, 2.5, 3 and 5mm hex wrenches, plus a Torx T10 and T27, then an 8mm wrench – of course, this is what's required for a full, nut-and-bolt rebuild of the brake and not the general adjustment, but I like simplicity.
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Udi

Udi

RM Chief Ornithologist
Mar 14, 2005
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Sandro said:
These guys are are usually pretty honest and reliable. Translated by google, but it should be enough to get the general idea: https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=de&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http://www.mtb-news.de/news/2016/03/29/test-trickstuff-direttissima-scheibenbremse/&edit-text=
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I just read that - a very eerie feeling of reading a bunch of stuff i've written read back to me by someone else! Do you have any experience to share? You seem interested.

For anyone else who cares, that confirms both MC and caliper are 7075-T6, and also confirms something else I wondered about - the MC pison uses a teflon bushing to eliminate wear of the bore. Formula do this also, but no one else to my knowledge.

Sandwich said:
holy shit udi
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Most bike stuff is really nice and trouble-free these days across many brands, brakes are the exception for me (tried everything), and I really want a permanent solution before the lifts reopen. I've been mulling over these since I rode them, expensive gamble.

Maybe on the unicorn occasion my cynical ass is actually impressed by something I should just shut up and throw money at it.
 
norbar

norbar

KESSLER PROBLEM. Just cause
Jun 7, 2007
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Please be my guinea pig. I won't buy any stoppers this season but I will probably switch on the next one and it's either v4s or these.
 
Sandro

Sandro

Terrified of Cucumbers
Nov 12, 2006
3,228
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Udi said:
I just read that - a very eerie feeling of reading a bunch of stuff i've written read back to me by someone else! Do you have any experience to share? You seem interested.
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Interested indeed, but unfortunately i have zero feedback since these things are total unicorns even in Germany. I suppose it would be easier for me to take the plunge since Trickstuff are close and i know that they are very customer friendly, but i would really like to do some proper testing and talk to a trustworthy owner before i spend this kind of money.

Speaking of money, the 750€ asking price for a front and rear set does not include any adapters or rotors yet, you do however get a fancy wooden box and a German organ donor card (brake marketing fail?).
 
Sandwich

Sandwich

Pig my fish!
Staff member
May 23, 2002
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Udi said:
Most bike stuff is really nice and trouble-free these days across many brands, brakes are the exception for me (tried everything), and I really want a permanent solution before the lifts reopen. I've been mulling over these since I rode them, expensive gamble.

Maybe on the unicorn occasion my cynical ass is actually impressed by something I should just shut up and throw money at it.
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It's cool, you're just the most thorough and pragmatic bike person I have ever communicated with. I have little doubt that there are very few people who know how many bearings their own brake lever has, let alone virtually every brake lever on the market.

question for you- what makes the trickstuff brakes so good? What specfically?
 
Udi

Udi

RM Chief Ornithologist
Mar 14, 2005
4,918
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Sandro said:
but i would really like to do some proper testing and talk to a trustworthy owner before i spend this kind of money.
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I'm in the same boat as you, perhaps I should take one for the team. I sent Mr. Aston a message as he seems to run them on his personal bike now, am yet to hear back, but will PM you the response if I do. The set I rode was on Fabien Cousine's bike, I've never seen them elsewhere either. If you have specific reasoning for wanting these brakes, then there is likely no concise alternative anyway.

The trickstuff appears to target a specific mix of high braking force, consistency, durability and longevity at low weight. Every other current product on the market is a guaranteed failure in at least one of these areas, especially under heavy / long-term DH use.

The potential of success excites me far more than the guarantee of mediocrity.

Sandwich said:
question for you- what makes the trickstuff brakes so good? What specfically?
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It may be complete rubbish for all I know. :)
Maybe the above reply answers it, otherwise the long post covers literally all I know.

norbar said:
Please be my guinea pig. I won't buy any stoppers this season but I will probably switch on the next one
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I'm now accepting donations towards a detailed review and bikepark season-long test.
Wonder if the bikemag lizard overlords could arrange something...
 
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norbar

norbar

KESSLER PROBLEM. Just cause
Jun 7, 2007
11,503
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Warsaw :/
@Udi you just gave me an idea. I need to bug the owner of one of the mags I wrote for. Maybe he will get them for tests since he seems to be a wizard at that. The thing is in between jobs will be hard to test them.
 
toodles

toodles

ridiculously corgi proportioned
Aug 24, 2004
5,824
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Australia
dump said:
Just think, you can always have your mechanic throw on another pair if they have an issue.
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For their price, I'd want them to fly a repair tech from Germany worldwide to repair them.

You can imagine the eye-twitching rage a customer would have if any component with that kind of premium was anything less than perfect.

I will say however, that the price isn't that dissimilar to the orginal costs for disc brakes when they first arrived before the economies of scale brought them to their current pricepoints. I guess small in-house manufacturing is still crazily expensive in comparison.
 
dump

dump

Turbo Monkey
Oct 12, 2001
8,456
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toodles said:
For their price, I'd want them to fly a repair tech from Germany worldwide to repair them.

You can imagine the eye-twitching rage a customer would have if any component with that kind of premium was anything less than perfect.

I will say however, that the price isn't that dissimilar to the orginal costs for disc brakes when they first arrived before the economies of scale brought them to their current pricepoints. I guess small in-house manufacturing is still crazily expensive in comparison.
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If you're going to spend $10,000 on a bike, the least you could do is have your brakes cost $1000.
 
toodles

toodles

ridiculously corgi proportioned
Aug 24, 2004
5,824
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Australia
Weren't the Brembo brakes something ridiculous as well? At least the Trickstuffs seem to have the construction and performance to back it up.
 
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