Quantcast

Hastert Lectures McCain on War, Sacrifice

N8 v2.0

Not the sharpest tool in the shed
Oct 18, 2002
11,003
149
The Cleft of Venus
Hastert Lectures McCain on War, Sacrifice
By MARY DALRYMPLE, Associated Press Writer

WASHINGTON - Growing tensions between House and Senate Republicans over the war in Iraq (news - web sites), abuse of Iraqi prisoners, tax cuts and budget deficits erupted Wednesday with House Speaker Dennis Hastert lecturing former POW and Arizona Sen. John McCain about sacrifice and war.

McCain, who spent five years in a North Vietnamese prison, excoriated fellow Republicans on Tuesday for pushing more tax cuts while U.S. troops are fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan (news - web sites).

"Throughout our history, wartime has been a time of sacrifice. ... What have we sacrificed?" McCain said. "As mind-boggling as expanding Medicare has been, nothing tops my confusion for cutting taxes during wartime. I don't remember ever in the history of warfare when we cut taxes."

Asked Wednesday about McCain's remarks, Hastert, who was rejected for military service because of a bad shoulder, first joked: "Who? Where's he from? A Republican?"

Then, more seriously, he said: "If you want to see sacrifice, John McCain ought to visit our young men and women at Walter Reed and Bethesda (two Washington area military hospitals). There's the sacrifice in this country. We're trying to make sure that they have the ability to fight this war, that they have the wherewithal to be able to do it. And at the same time, we have to react to keep this country strong not only militarily but economically. We want to be able to have the flexibility to do it. That's my reply to John McCain."

McCain stood fast in his reply to Hastert.

"The speaker is correct in that nothing we are called upon to do comes close to matching the heroism of our troops," he said. "All we're called upon to do is not spend our nation into bankruptcy while our soldiers risk their lives. I fondly remember a time when real Republicans stood for fiscal responsibility."

The conflict erupted as Hastert laid down a budget making it easier to pass future tax cuts regardless of their impact on the federal deficit. McCain and a group of GOP moderates in the Senate want to rein in deficits by making tax cuts harder.

Later, Hastert spokesman John Feehery said the speaker "values Sen. McCain's military service, but he disagrees with him on tax relief."
 

Serial Midget

Al Bundy
Jun 25, 2002
13,053
1,897
Fort of Rio Grande
I think very highly of John McCain - Hastert doesn't mean anything to me at all. He can lecture all he wants but that is not going to give him the credibility McCain has earned over his many years in public office.

Sort of like you N8 - you can blow all the partisan bullsh-it you want - but so what, you lost your credibility a long time ago. Now you are simply a Copy McPastie, the only monkeys who take you seriously now are the ones that already shared your viewpoint.
 

N8 v2.0

Not the sharpest tool in the shed
Oct 18, 2002
11,003
149
The Cleft of Venus
Originally posted by Serial Midget
Sort of like you N8 - you can blow all the partisan bullsh-it you want - but so what, you lost your credibility a long time ago. Now you are simply a Copy McPastie, the only monkeys who take you seriously now are the ones that already shared your viewpoint.



Well, coming from you, the pinnacle of profound pomposity, I'll take it as a compliment.

Thanks!

:)
 

valve bouncer

Master Dildoist
Feb 11, 2002
7,843
114
Japan
Originally posted by Serial Midget


Sort of like you N8 - you can blow all the partisan bullsh-it you want - but so what, you lost your credibility a long time ago. Now you are simply a Copy McPastie, the only monkeys who take you seriously now are the ones that already shared your viewpoint.
Wow........f*cken owned......SM- the angry old midget.;) :D
 

Silver

find me a tampon
Jul 20, 2002
10,840
1
Orange County, CA
"Then, more seriously, he said: "If you want to see sacrifice, John McCain ought to visit our young men and women at Walter Reed and Bethesda (two Washington area military hospitals). There's the sacrifice in this country. We're trying to make sure that they have the ability to fight this war, that they have the wherewithal to be able to do it. And at the same time, we have to react to keep this country strong not only militarily but economically. We want to be able to have the flexibility to do it. That's my reply to John McCain."

Nice way to not answer the question and also question the patriotism of a man who spent a bunch of years in an NVA prison camp while you complained of sore knees due to your college wrestling career. (Grapling with spry young men...hmmm...sounds like something one of the godless faggots would enjoy, doesn't it?)

I don't agree with McCain on a lot of things, but I'd be proud to have him as President...he's a guy I would trust to not lie straight to my face (like Clinton, but I'm willing to cut him slack over the blowjob after seeing what Bush has done) or be willfully ignorant if not intentionally malevolent (Bush).
 

brenth

Monkey
Jun 14, 2002
221
0
Santa Monica
Anybody see McCain on the daily show a week or two ago? He rocks! I honestly don't know much about his positions on issues, But to me he seams like a politican that if we had more like him, we wouldn't be in alot of ****ty situations we are today. ( and no I'm not talking about the war or anything else specificlly, I'm talking about the partisan bull**** on both sides of the debate, instead of what is good for everyone).
 

$tinkle

Expert on blowing
Feb 12, 2003
14,591
6
Originally posted by brenth
Anybody see McCain on the daily show a week or two ago?
yeah, i think he still hasn't found those charts. He's been a rotating fixture since the 00 runup. I'm pretty sure i like him, but i'm not sure he would have been more gracious than bush during this war. That, my friend, would have been a serious iraqi body count; but to his credit, it'd just be the UN & halliburton in there now.
 

Serial Midget

Al Bundy
Jun 25, 2002
13,053
1,897
Fort of Rio Grande
I would have faith in McCain to level with the public and tell it like it is without twisting the truth to meet his own agenda. It would be nice to have a bit of honesty in our leaders. We know Bush II, Clinton, Bush the Elder and Ronald Reagon all lied, spoke in half truths and mislead the public they were elected to serve. Screw them all. :monkey:


Originally posted by brenth
Anybody see McCain on the daily show a week or two ago? He rocks! I honestly don't know much about his positions on issues, But to me he seams like a politican that if we had more like him, we wouldn't be in alot of ****ty situations we are today. ( and no I'm not talking about the war or anything else specificlly, I'm talking about the partisan bull**** on both sides of the debate, instead of what is good for everyone).
 

Slugman

Frankenbike
Apr 29, 2004
4,024
0
Miami, FL
Originally posted by stoney98
MCCain should have run anyways, he would have won. I'd vote for him anyday, he IS the man we need to lead the country, not some hick or daddy's boy. He's about the people he serves, not his or special interests.
:stupid: I would have voted for McCain over anyone else in the last election.

However his dedication to the republican party (i.e. not seeking an indepedant backing and run agains GW and Bore) made me lose a little respect for him. I beleive that if a 3rd party were ever to be viable it would take a man like McCain to represent it... and it was probably the best shot that we will see for a long time.
 

N8 v2.0

Not the sharpest tool in the shed
Oct 18, 2002
11,003
149
The Cleft of Venus
The only thing McCain can do well is fly planes into the ground.
He was still on the deck in one of his crashes. It takes a special kind of pilot to blow up a plane while still on deck. But at least he didn't get captured that time.
just luv luv luv to piss on ur parade wid teh factz!

mccain did lose two Navy aircraft while piloting them, both due to engine failure.

a third was destroyed on the deck of the carrier USS Forrestal when a missile fired accidentally from another plane hit either the plane next to McCain's or, less likely, his own aircraft, triggering a disastrous fire that killed 134 sailors and nearly killed McCain.

fourth plane was lost when he was shot down over North Vietnam on a bombing mission over Hanoi.

none of the four destroyed planes were lost to pilot error.
 

Defenestrated

Turbo Monkey
Mar 28, 2007
1,657
0
Earth
just luv luv luv to piss on ur parade wid teh factz!

mccain did lose two Navy aircraft while piloting them, both due to engine failure.

a third was destroyed on the deck of the carrier USS Forrestal when a missile fired accidentally from another plane hit either the plane next to McCain's or, less likely, his own aircraft, triggering a disastrous fire that killed 134 sailors and nearly killed McCain.

fourth plane was lost when he was shot down over North Vietnam on a bombing mission over Hanoi.

none of the four destroyed planes were lost to pilot error.
McCain III lost jet number one in 1958 when he plunged into Corpus Christi Bay while practicing landings. He was knocked unconscious by the impact coming to as the plane settled to the bottom.

McCain's second crash occurred while he was deployed in the Mediterranean. "Flying too low over the Iberian Peninsula," Timberg wrote, "he took out some power lines [reminiscent of the 1998 incident in which a Marine Corps jet sliced through the cables of a gondola at an Italian ski resort, killing 20] which led to a spate of newspaper stories in which he was predictably identified as the son of an admiral."

McCain's third crash three occurred when he was returning from flying a Navy trainer solo to Philadelphia for an Army-Navy football game.

Timberg reported that McCain radioed, "I've got a flameout" and went through standard relight procedures three times before ejecting at one thousand feet. McCain landed on a deserted beach moments before the plane slammed into a clump of trees.

McCain's fourth aircraft loss occurred July 29, 1967, soon after he was assigned to the USS Forrestal as an A-4 Skyhawk pilot. While seated in the cockpit of his aircraft waiting his turn for takeoff, an accidently fired rocket slammed into McCain's plane. He escaped from the burning aircraft, but the explosions that followed killed 134 sailors, destroyed at least 20 aircraft, and threatened to sink the ship.

McCain's fifth loss happened during his 23rd mission over North Vietnam on Oct. 26, 1967, when McCain's A-4 Skyhawk was shot down by a surface-to-air missile. McCain ejected from the plane breaking both arms and a leg in the process and subsequently parachuted into Truc Bach Lake near Hanoi.
 
Last edited:

N8 v2.0

Not the sharpest tool in the shed
Oct 18, 2002
11,003
149
The Cleft of Venus
McCain III lost jet number one in 1958 when he plunged into Corpus Christi Bay while practicing landings. He was knocked unconscious by the impact coming to as the plane settled to the bottom.

McCain's second crash occurred while he was deployed in the Mediterranean. "Flying too low over the Iberian Peninsula," Timberg wrote, "he took out some power lines [reminiscent of the 1998 incident in which a Marine Corps jet sliced through the cables of a gondola at an Italian ski resort, killing 20] which led to a spate of newspaper stories in which he was predictably identified as the son of an admiral."

McCain's third crash three occurred when he was returning from flying a Navy trainer solo to Philadelphia for an Army-Navy football game.

Timberg reported that McCain radioed, "I've got a flameout" and went through standard relight procedures three times before ejecting at one thousand feet. McCain landed on a deserted beach moments before the plane slammed into a clump of trees.

McCain's fourth aircraft loss occurred July 29, 1967, soon after he was assigned to the USS Forrestal as an A-4 Skyhawk pilot. While seated in the cockpit of his aircraft waiting his turn for takeoff, an accidently fired rocket slammed into McCain's plane. He escaped from the burning aircraft, but the explosions that followed killed 134 sailors, destroyed at least 20 aircraft, and threatened to sink the ship.

McCain's fifth loss happened during his 23rd mission over North Vietnam on Oct. 26, 1967, when McCain's A-4 Skyhawk was shot down by a surface-to-air missile. McCain ejected from the plane breaking both arms and a leg in the process and subsequently parachuted into Truc Bach Lake near Hanoi.
pwnt!
 

Samirol

Turbo Monkey
Jun 23, 2008
1,437
0
Hell, even on Carrier, when a pilot had problems getting fueled midair and had to make an emergency landing at an airport, he got sidelined for a couple months.
 

X3pilot

Texans fan - LOL
Aug 13, 2007
5,860
1
SoMD
McCain III lost jet number one in 1958 when he plunged into Corpus Christi Bay while practicing landings. He was knocked unconscious by the impact coming to as the plane settled to the bottom.

Happens more than gets reported, they trainers for a reason.

McCain's second crash occurred while he was deployed in the Mediterranean. "Flying too low over the Iberian Peninsula," Timberg wrote, "he took out some power lines [reminiscent of the 1998 incident in which a Marine Corps jet sliced through the cables of a gondola at an Italian ski resort, killing 20] which led to a spate of newspaper stories in which he was predictably identified as the son of an admiral."

As referenced to 1998, happens more than it should. 2 P3 Orion aircraft have been lost due soley to showboating

McCain's third crash three occurred when he was returning from flying a Navy trainer solo to Philadelphia for an Army-Navy football game.

Timberg reported that McCain radioed, "I've got a flameout" and went through standard relight procedures three times before ejecting at one thousand feet. McCain landed on a deserted beach moments before the plane slammed into a clump of trees.

Flying military aircraft to events happens constantly. By every branch. Ever watch a football game, World Series or other sporting event with the flyovers?

McCain's fourth aircraft loss occurred July 29, 1967, soon after he was assigned to the USS Forrestal as an A-4 Skyhawk pilot. While seated in the cockpit of his aircraft waiting his turn for takeoff, an accidently fired rocket slammed into McCain's plane. He escaped from the burning aircraft, but the explosions that followed killed 134 sailors, destroyed at least 20 aircraft, and threatened to sink the ship.

Not really his fault he lost that one. Lots of aircraft were lost that day and the missle wasn't on his aircraft

McCain's fifth loss happened during his 23rd mission over North Vietnam on Oct. 26, 1967, when McCain's A-4 Skyhawk was shot down by a surface-to-air missile. McCain ejected from the plane breaking both arms and a leg in the process and subsequently parachuted into Truc Bach Lake near Hanoi.
This one made him a POW in case you hadn;t heard about him being a POW. sarcasm on


My reference to Naval aviation comes from 24 years in it. Kinda know a lot of the dirty secrets.
 

ohio

The Fresno Kid
Nov 26, 2001
6,649
26
SF, CA
My reference to Naval aviation comes from 24 years in it. Kinda know a lot of the dirty secrets.
Do you know lots of guys whose careers contain 5 or more destroyed aircraft? How would you describe them in terms of character and intelligence?

No one is claiming he's the only ****up with wings, nor that it's surprising that a fighter pilot would demonstrate reckless, idiotic, thrill-seeking tendencies. I think folks are just pointing out that he was a ****up and a reckless, thrill-seeking idiot. Are you saying that the fact that it's common makes it okay?
 
Last edited:

X3pilot

Texans fan - LOL
Aug 13, 2007
5,860
1
SoMD
Do you know lots of guys whose careers contain 5 or more destroyed aircraft? How would you describe them in terms of character and intelligence?
Straight answer, no. I flew and have over 4000 hours, never had one destroyed.

2 of those cannot be attributed to his 'character and intelligence'

Stupid flying, flat hatting, showboating, skylarking, whatever is not an acceptable excuse for losing a taxpayer asset.

What this says about character is for you, as a taxpayer that bought that airplane, to decide.
 

syadasti

i heart mac
Apr 15, 2002
12,690
290
VT
Do you know lots of guys whose careers contain 5 or more destroyed aircraft? How would you describe them in terms of character and intelligence
I got an email this morning from my uncle who has taught at the naval academy in Annapolis (he's a life-long pilot licensed to teach sailing, glider, and power flight) about the RS McCain article:

I have not had a chance to read this yet. But I wanted to write and tell you that the academy graduate (early 80's ?) 20 year+ marine former F-18 pilot that works in my office read the article and said that no one he knows that personally knows McCain would vote for him. And the very conservative former air force lifer also a pilot and also attended the naval academy (older guy there was no Airforce Academy when he went to school) very much dislikes McCain.
 

X3pilot

Texans fan - LOL
Aug 13, 2007
5,860
1
SoMD
Technically, if the aircraft is flying too slow, it will enter a stall condition and essentially begin to fall out of the sky.

When a turbojet/turboprop/turboshaft engine stalls, the incoming air that forms a wall between the compressor section and the turbine collapses, allowing propulsion gases to rush forward through the combustion section, effectively "blowing out the candle". This could be caused by several factors and without reading or seeing the actual resultant engineering investigation that always follows any Naval Aviation mishap, there is really no way of knowing for sure, but some factors could be slow airspeed; reducing the air intake, unusual angle of attack; disturbing the airflow into the intake section of the engine, a poor performing engine (lacking in formulated performance ranges)or mechanical failure of various components.

I had one engine one time 'fail' due to catastrophic compressor failure. It simply 'came from together' in maintenance terms.



or are you fvcking with me?
 

X3pilot

Texans fan - LOL
Aug 13, 2007
5,860
1
SoMD
I got an email this morning from my uncle who has taught at the naval academy in Annapolis (he's a life-long pilot licensed to teach sailing, glider, and power flight) about the RS McCain article:
Understand, I'm not trying to defend McCain himself, I agree with your uncle's email. I'm defending what I perceive to be the start of an assumption about Naval Aviators in general.

Maybe I'm taking this the wrong way or too personally.

Aviation is an inherently dangerous occupation, bad things happen to good pilots. Air mishaps aren't necessarily a benchmark to judge someone's character or ability to be President.

I know, "Shhhh, let the adults talk..."